Now we Close the Embassy in Libya??

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Don't buy into all the snowden garbage, the guy is a trained liar.

The physical devices you keep listing are not used to target the general public.
Snowden didn't TELL us anything, he revealed the documents from the perpetrators themselves that tell us everything. What rock have you been under the last few years? You really think the US government wants to arrest Snowden because he is making up lies? Or is it because Snowden STOLE the documents that prove all the assertions? There is ignorance, and then there is willfull ignorance, and I am afraid you are in the latter classification of people.

As far as physical devices, Obviously you are under the assumption that no one in the public sphere uses Intel chips I guess. ALL intel chips on EVERY PC made in the last few years has HARDWARE enabled backdoors for surveillance purposes, the Government has told you so several times now, Intel has also revealed this fact. You Ignore it all you want, but don't try to argue that it isn't happening.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
keep moving the goal posts bro. have you got your RFID chip yet?
I specifically mentioned intel chips there are NO hardware backdoors. Software only. Pushed via microcode to the CPU. please stop repeating shit you actually know nothing about
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
keep moving the goal posts bro. have you got your RFID chip yet?

Tired of your ignorance being on display?

Protip: when using terms such as "moving the goal posts" you might want to actually make sure a goal post has been moved, otherwise it makes you look desperate. And weak.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Tired of your ignorance being on display?

Protip: when using terms such as "moving the goal posts" you might want to actually make sure a goal post has been moved, otherwise it makes you look desperate. And weak.
Dude you cited cottonmouth-II as proof that the government is inserting hardware backdoors into consumer electronics. At like $20K a pop that is not economically feasable thus instantly dismissable.
Do you know of anyone paying $20K plus for a desktop PC? Enterprise servers do not count.

As for intel, NO they do not have a hardware backdoors only software. I'm not going to get into how a CPU works because you seem to completely ignore the parts of a post you don't understand.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Dude you cited cottonmouth-II as proof that the government is inserting hardware backdoors into consumer electronics. At like $20K a pop that is not economically feasable thus instantly dismissable.
Do you know of anyone paying $20K plus for a desktop PC? Enterprise servers do not count.

As for intel, NO they do not have a hardware backdoors only software. I'm not going to get into how a CPU works because you seem to completely ignore the parts of a post you don't understand.
I already PROVED they were installing hardware into Consumer electronics, which you asserted they did not, NOW you assert that "OK they put it in consumer electronics, just not so much cuz its expensive." Gimme a break Ernie, THAT is moving the goal posts.

You know what cognitive dissonance is? Its what you display when you say this doesn't happen, yet concede that it does happen, just not to ordinary citizens like yourself, only the true terrorists.

You ARE the terrorist.

Most security experts say that Intel and AMD have backdoors built into their chips, i will believe the experts rather than the stoner who by his own admission has already conceded the point.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Do you know of anyone paying $20K plus for a desktop PC? Enterprise servers do not count.
Wait, are you under the impression that if the NSA decides they want to keylog you , that they add the price of the secret hardware into the purchase price when they sell it to you?

LOL jesus thats the dumbest fucking thing I ever heard. BTW its only one example, one that proved you wrong, now you mad.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
I already PROVED they were installing hardware into Consumer electronics, which you asserted they did not, NOW you assert that "OK they put it in consumer electronics, just not so much cuz its expensive." Gimme a break Ernie, THAT is moving the goal posts.

You know what cognitive dissonance is? Its what you display when you say this doesn't happen, yet concede that it does happen, just not to ordinary citizens like yourself, only the true terrorists.

You ARE the terrorist.

Most security experts say that Intel and AMD have backdoors built into their chips, i will believe the experts rather than the stoner who by his own admission has already conceded the point.
I didn't concede they put hardware back doors in consumer electronics. I stated in one of the first post related to this discussion;

Software back doors yes, hardware back doors are something else entirely and is not aimed at the consumer market. That's government and/or corporate espionage.

In relation to intel back doors - that is achieved via software not hardware and requires a internet gateway.
Your claims that this is happening to everyone and involves hardware taps on most computer components is nonsense.

You're confusing the PRISM data collection program with operations carried out by the NSA' Tailored Access Operations unit.

All the product brands you've listed rely on firmware exploits not physical bugs.

http://leaksource.info/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/

Stop moving the goalposts
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I didn't concede they put hardware back doors in consumer electronics. I stated in one of the first post related to this discussion;



Your claims that this is happening to everyone and involves hardware taps on most computer components is nonsense.

You're confusing the PRISM data collection program with operations carried out by the NSA' Tailored Access Operations unit.

All the product brands you've listed rely on firmware exploits not physical bugs.

http://leaksource.info/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/

Stop moving the goalposts
intel has been working with the NSA for over a decade. You are making yourself look like a twit
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
It was a lot faster than Benghazi when we had a few weeks warning.


The withdrawal underscored the Obama administration's concern about the heightened risk to American diplomats abroad, particularly in Libya where memories of the deadly 2012 attack on the U.S. mission in the eastern city of Benghazi are still vivid and the political uproar over it remain fresh ahead of a new congressional investigation into the incident.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/26/us-shutters-embassy-in-libya-evacuates-staff-to-tunisia-as-security/
what i find most interesting about benghazi is that it was 10 year anniversary and you just KNEW something was going to happen but wait! we have politics! as usual! meanwhile, something we could have done other than reading "cat in the hat"?

honestly, i'm ashamed of my goverment and how they act..all of them!

additionally, their salary should be tied to percentage of activity (year over year) in the house and congress..some sort of sliding scale where they are penalized for not doing their job..and don't say it can't be done..it sure as hell can be.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
I never claimed that, you did, in an attempt to make a strawman.
"The NSA intercepts certain shipments to targets and install implants"

becomes

"the NSA is secretly placing eavesdropping devices in computers."

Keep moving the goal posts on a subject you don't understand
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
what i find most interesting about benghazi is that it was 10 year anniversary and you just KNEW something was going to happen but wait! we have politics! as usual! meanwhile, something we could have done other than reading "cat in the hat"?

honestly, i'm ashamed of my goverment and how they act..all of them!

additionally, their salary should be tied to percentage of activity (year over year) in the house and congress..some sort of sliding scale where they are penalized for not doing their job..and don't say it can't be done..it sure as hell can be.
I don't think passing regulation just to appear "busy" is a good idea.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
"The NSA intercepts certain shipments to targets and install implants"

becomes

"the NSA is secretly placing eavesdropping devices in computers."

Keep moving the goal posts on a subject you don't understand
I like the quotes you made up out of nowhere, got some of my own.

Me: The NSA spies on everyone
Ernie: No it doesn't.
Me: Yes it does here is all the proof from the NSA itself, link, link, link, link, evidence, evidence, evidence.
Ernie: Nuh uh!
Me: The NSA spies on everyone
Ernie: You moved the goal post!!
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
I like the quotes you made up out of nowhere, got some of my own.

Me: The NSA spies on everyone

Ernie: No it doesn't.

Me: Yes it does here is all the proof from the NSA itself, link, link, link, link, evidence, evidence, evidence.

Ernie: Nuh uh!

Me: The NSA spies on everyone

Ernie: You moved the goal post!!
Apparently you have trouble reading and are pushing blatant falsehoods. Let’s go back to the start.

Software back doors yes, hardware back doors are something else entirely and is not aimed at the consumer market. That's government and/or corporate espionage.
Sorry bub, guess you didn't read all of Snowden's revealing news.
Intel, Cisco, Dell, Apple..... all have given the NSA backdoors into your personal information. ALL OF IT!! Hardware and software manufacturers are not allowed to sell product without giving the NSA the keys to the kingdom first.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/may/12/glenn-greenwald-nsa-tampers-us-internet-routers-snowden[/QUOTE]

Apparently you don’t read your own links.

A June 2010 report from the head of the NSA's Access and Target Development department is shockingly explicit. The NSA routinely receives – or intercepts – routers, servers and other computer network devices being exported from the US before they are delivered to the international customers. The agency then implants backdoor surveillance tools, repackages the devices with a factory seal and sends them on.

Your own link confirms what I’ve continually claimed, my stance has not differed.

its all about the NSA putting hardware backdoors into Routers.Routers are hardware FYI. so you appear more informed and not ignorant and testy.
Your cite states for international customers, not the general public buying domestically.

My claim has been that this is NOT aimed at the consumer marker and physical hardware back doors are for government and corporate espionage. The everyday consumer does not constitute a profitable target in terms of target analysis.
Below is where you move the goalposts.

The NSA has every phone conversation you have had in the last 4 years recorded, all of your e-mails, all of your texts.....
Confusing mass SIGINT collection (aka upstream collection) for targeted SIGINT programs undertaken by the TAO is an attempt to hide the fact you are out of your depth.

This has nothing to do with corporate espionage, the US government sees its own citizens as the problem and is doing everything in its power to have us under surveillance.
Everything the NSA’ TAO unit does is about corporate and government espionage, barring the deployment of these capabilities against a legitimate individual or group that poses a threat.

The Upstream collection program (mass data collection) is something different to the TAO and runs without real input from users. Furthermore it’s the FBI that collects the data domestically before passing it on to the NSA for classification, analysis and storage. This is what one of the slides snowden released clearly depicts.


Laptops aren't used by consumers right?

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/173721-the-nsa-regularly-intercepts-laptop-shipments-to-implant-malware-report-says Oh and by the way the report you keep referring to is a report made by THE NSA!!! The NSA is admitting it and you don't believe it, you must be BLIND!!
From your link

It is unclear how frequently this program is utilized, but the scale is likely limited. Diverting electronics shipments en masse would be suspicious, and the intelligence agency would not want to expose its internal tools to more potential discovery than absolutely necessary — the NSA pays a pretty penny for many of these backdoors.
Again, confirmation that the TAO’s ANT products are not deployed en masse.

The NSA has what Der Spiegel describes as a catalog of spy tools with pricing and feature details. The 50-page document lists tools to compromise hardened systems made by the likes of Cisco, Juniper Networks, Huawei, Western Digital, Microsoft, and Samsung. The prices for these attacks, maintained by an internal group known as ANT, can reach as high as $250,000. Although, when it comes to secret NSA software vulnerabilities, you get what you pay for.

It does not say how the NSA was able to exploit those firmwares which is what the document refers to – a program named IRATEMONK, which is a firmware exploit not hardware bug.

The articles are nothing more than editorials explaining what is in the NSA documents. It is clear that you haven't read any of the articles as the proof must just be too goddamned hard for you to swallow, ignorance is bliss.
The articles ARE editorials explaining the NSA documents you CLEARLY HAVE NOT READ. Try reading them instead of having a reporter brief you on what they THINK it means.

Also, you should take some remedial reading comprehension classes so that you don't just gloss over the whole article ignoring all the things that don't agree with you and coming up with some sort of red herring to justify it all.
I understand the documents you are putting total faith in someone else interpretation not your own, that much is clear.

"One popular tool employed by the NSA on interdicted PCs is known as Cottonmouth. This is a physical device developed in 2009 that can be implanted in a USB port to give the NSA remote access to the target machine once it reaches its destination."
I'm very aware it's computer programs that collect mass data and i'm not disputing the bredth and depth of mass data collection. The physical devices you keep listing are not used to target the general public. I'm telling you the cost of implementation on a mass scale ie. consumer electronics released to the public is not economically feasable. You just mentioned Cottonmouth-II, they cost around $20K per unit. This not deployed as part of a mass surveillance op, but rather a target centric op. Don't buy into all the snowden garbage, the guy is a trained liar.
"The NSA intercepts certain shipments to targets and install implants"

becomes

"the NSA is secretly placing eavesdropping devices in computers."

Keep moving the goal posts on a subject you don't understand
It’s very obvious you don’t understand what is being described in the documents not the shoddy reporting you continually cite
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Apparently you have trouble reading and are pushing blatant falsehoods. Let’s go back to the start.
Are laptops used by the general public? If they are, then you are 100% WRONG.

BTW it was just ONE example, I can pull out numerous ones of consumer electronics that the manufacturers have placed hardware enabled backdoors for the NSA to get your info. Keep denying it, it makes you look like a blithering moron.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Are laptops used by the general public? If they are, then you are 100% WRONG.

BTW it was just ONE example, I can pull out numerous ones of consumer electronics that the manufacturers have placed hardware enabled backdoors for the NSA to get your info. Keep denying it, it makes you look like a blithering moron.
Another fail, read your own links.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/173721-the-nsa-regularly-intercepts-laptop-shipments-to-implant-malware-report-says

The NSA regularly intercepts laptop shipments to implant malware, report says

According to a new report in Der Spiegel, the NSA regularly intercepts shipments of laptops and other electronic devices in order to implant physical listening devices and install advanced malware. This process, called interdiction, can give authorities instant remote access to a subject’s computer without them being any the wiser.

Interdiction is undertaken by the NSA’s superhacker team known at Tailored Access Operations (TAO). It is not impossible to deliver malware to a target computer after the fact, but the risk is far lower if the surveillance tools can be installed before a device reaches the buyer. TAO is reportedly able to divert a package to its network of secret workshops where the modifications can be made before returning the packages to the shipping company.

It is unclear how frequently this program is utilized, but the scale is likely limited. Diverting electronics shipments en masse would be suspicious, and the intelligence agency would not want to expose its internal tools to more potential discovery than absolutely necessary — the NSA pays a pretty penny for many of these backdoors.


Don't interpret documents you haven't read from misleading headlines. Citing an interpretation that mixed a lot of opinion in with fact is what a blithering moron does.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Are laptops used by the general public? If they are, then you are 100% WRONG.

BTW it was just ONE example, I can pull out numerous ones of consumer electronics that the manufacturers have placed hardware enabled backdoors for the NSA to get your info. Keep denying it, it makes you look like a blithering moron.
Please cite them, specifically manufacture installed, HARDWARE back doors aimed at the general public outside of upstream and downstream data collection.
 
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