Most important thread ever...Your attention please. Help needed.

itsmehigh

Well-Known Member
There's a lot to unpack from what you've said in this thread, but this is just not correct. CCHQ in Vancouver was raided, so probably the first thing you should do is get your facts straight.

Re 'There are more important things', that's a fallacy of relative privation. This is a non-argument.

Re 'They should just wait', this is the same thing Rifici is currently saying. Legalization is not happening in a few months. A reasonable estimate is 2019. Waiting ensures that the joke of a medical system is the only model the public will see, Marc and Jodie's biggest win here is showing the public just how easy legalization can be. Some of the CC stores re-opened the day of the raids, so what has the TPS accomplished, besides wasting taxpayers money.

Re 'I'm going to do what I want', that's great for you, however maintaining that position and being negative towards people who are actually putting themselves on the line gives you no legs to stand on. Marc and Jodie are possibly looking at life in prison, so understand the risks they are taking, and that it is far more than you apparently are.

Re 'The courts took down the MMPR', CCHQ heavily promoted the Allard case via Pot TV, so saying they've done nothing for medical is also not correct.

I don't agree with everything Marc and Jodie do, but it seems like every time they run into trouble with the law, armchair activists come out of the woodwork to say how they should not have broken the law. Civil disobedience has always been about pushing boundaries. When the first vapour lounges (run by Chris and Erin, who were also charged) came out, swift police action happened, and plenty of people were also casting aspersions about how brazen they were, how they deserved jail, etc. Now vapour lounges are a staple, both in BC and out East.

Civil disobedience is not about doing something safe, or complying with authority, it is all about pushing boundaries. So judge them however you want, but you are most certainly not doing it from the moral high-ground. I hate to break it to you, but activism is also about getting in the public eye. Occupying MP's offices doesn't really do much if the story never gets out and government officials don't have to deal with the backlash.

Prohibition pricing is what it is, and dispensaries can be rightfully criticized for their high prices. However, that swings both ways, Dana Larsen donated to the Allard case. Keep in mind running a dispensary pretty much means you have to be able to afford legal fees / be prepared to be raided, so it's not as simple as just saying they should sell everything at cost.

The government already had their chance to show good faith by doing something about cannabis arrests, and they have refused, however if you want to place trust in someone that's slapping you in the face, go right ahead.
Kudos, a well thought out and intelligent post. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I feel how I feel, I feel that the Emories are becoming irrelevant, at this point in time they are cashing in on their entitled piece of the pie, that doesn't make them hero's in my book. They pushed the envelope too far and are now facing the consequences. They knew what the consequence were, and I don't think for 1 sec. that they are now doing it for the people or the cause, they are solely looking after their best interest, and I'm not judging them on that. They just don't get my sympathy.

Re. Only CCHQ was raided not the stores, and they left cannabis.

Re."fallacy of relative privation". had to look that up, nice words brainiac. Cannabis is low on my radar currently, I'm far more worried on the state of other things currently. I think that there are far bigger issues than cannabis legalization at the moment.

Re. waiting, what's wrong with waiting to establish a level playing field for all? They probably blew their chance on a legitimate business now, they may be Black listed. How has that gotten them any farther ahead? That makes them dumb in my book. I can wait.

Re. Doing what I want. I'm just not a "look at me" kinda guy, I've broken the law for over 30 years, and supported many patients and activists. Just because I'm not on TV doesn't mean I'm not grass roots.

Re. Allard case. You know how many people lined their pockets with donation money? It turned into a business. What a circus it turned into. I supported it in the beginning when it meant something.

Itsme.
 

The Hippy

Well-Known Member
So why aren't they opening up unlicensed wine stores too? Weed is actually far from harmless. You just haven't investigated the negative effects of THC thoroughly. It suppresses the immune system. A valid argument could be made that it's a menace to public health.
A valid argument could be made that your a fool...I win....fool.What are you even doing here. Isn't there some scared outta my wits web site you could hang around at ?
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
Kudos, a well thought out and intelligent post. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I feel how I feel, I feel that the Emories are becoming irrelevant, at this point in time they are cashing in on their entitled piece of the pie, that doesn't make them hero's in my book. They pushed the envelope too far and are now facing the consequences. They knew what the consequence were, and I don't think for 1 sec. that they are now doing it for the people or the cause, they are solely looking after their best interest, and I'm not judging them on that. They just don't get my sympathy.

Re. Only CCHQ was raided not the stores, and they left cannabis.

Re."fallacy of relative privation". had to look that up, nice words brainiac. Cannabis is low on my radar currently, I'm far more worried on the state of other things currently. I think that there are far bigger issues than cannabis legalization at the moment.

Re. waiting, what's wrong with waiting to establish a level playing field for all? They probably blew their chance on a legitimate business now, they may be Black listed. How has that gotten them any farther ahead? That makes them dumb in my book. I can wait.

Re. Doing what I want. I'm just not a "look at me" kinda guy, I've broken the law for over 30 years, and supported many patients and activists. Just because I'm not on TV doesn't mean I'm not grass roots.

Re. Allard case. You know how many people lined their pockets with donation money? It turned into a business. What a circus it turned into. I supported it in the beginning when it meant something.

Itsme.
Gosh that's a lot of words to say 'I'm right because I say so'. CC branded dispensaries in Vancouver were raided, and cannabis was only left because the cops didn't get it all.

I'm not really sure why you're proud of not knowing what a logical fallacy is, or why you think repeating it makes it any more valid.

Wilcox and the untraceable donation boxes aside, who are you referring to lining their pockets? In any event, the case was won, so it most definitely 'meant something' at the end.

You're pretty clear that you break the law for your own benefit, which is more or less the same as what you accuse Marc of doing, so congrats on being a hypocrite?
 

vancityj

Well-Known Member
I don't think that trafficking hundreds of pound obtained in the black/grey markets across provincial boarders...The transportation over provincial Boarders and organizing a network of distributing across a country.
Do you know for a fact that the Ontario outlets didn't stock Ontario-grown cannabis, or is this a repeated assumption on your part?

If it weren't for Marc Emery and others pushing the envelope, with the subsequent news coverage, over the course of more than two decades, I don't think we'd be facing the promised legalization. As if Trudeau, or Harper, or anyone, would decide one day to legalize cannabis without any public pressure. Who started the 4/20 gatherings and Cannabis Day on July 1st many (20+?) years ago, which helped put cannabis in the public psyche and polls? If everyone stayed complacent, nothing would ever change in a timely manner.

So why aren't they opening up unlicensed wine stores too?
Unlike the retail wine store, there aren't legal brick & mortar cannabis stores currently open. The dispensaries established the retail model and have been operating for decades in some cases, and the courts have repeatedly decided the dispensaries are a benefit and serve a purpose. They aren't going anywhere. I assume Marc and others like him desire a seat at the retail table in the coming distribution frawework, and he's willing to push his agenda. I also think he'd like to see local producers testing and supplying alongside the LP's. If nobody rocks the boat and raises concern over the little guy having an avenue to test and retail, do you think it will be allowed/included? Likely not. Personally, I'd rather purchase cannabis via smaller, local producers, and I'm guessing most feel the same.

Governments making millions on illegal pot shops: Owners

BY CHRIS DOUCETTE, TORONTO SUN
FIRST POSTED: TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2017 09:35 PM EST | UPDATED: WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2017 06:50 AM EST

Governments have reaped hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, licensing costs and other fees from just two illegal Toronto pot shops, say the dispensaries’ owners.

And they estimate federal, provincial and municipal governments have already collected millions from the rogue businesses across Canada while the country waits for marijuana to be officially legalized.

“My one Cannabis Culture on Church St. paid $434,000 in HST payments for the three months, from October to December, and $22,000 in payroll deductions,” the self-proclaimed Prince of Pot Mark Emery said Tuesday, disputing a recent Toronto Police claim that dispensaries are not paying taxes.

Emery claims that when he made his first HST payment to Canada Revenue Agency, he was informed as many as 100 pot dispensaries across the country have been paying their taxes.

A perpetual line of customers with cash in hand, filed through his smoke-filled shop on Church St. Tuesday afternoon. A private security guard, hired in the wake of the recent spike in pot shop heists, kept watch nearby.

Emery said business has been growing so rapidly since he started selling dispensary weed at the location last fall that the store’s 28 employees can barely keep up.

The booming location typically handles more than 1,500 customers a day, but last Friday the shop soared to a new high when 1,932 people stopped in to buy cannabis prior to the long weekend, he said.

“Sales from that one day alone amount to about $10,500 in HST for CRA,” Emery said, adding the shop’s HST total for 2017 could be close to $2 million by year’s end.

“That’s all new revenue that used to just end up on the street,” he said. “So the government is the biggest stakeholder in my business.”

Weed the North owner Cory Stoneham, who jokingly referred to himself as the King of Cannabis after appearing on the front of Tuesday’s Toronto Sun, said he faces similar dilemmas but on a smaller scale because he’s still growing his business.

The ongoing threat of police raids also go hand-in-hand with operating an illegal business, but Stoneham claims cops went too far when they raided his Eglinton West location for a second time last month — allegedly damaging his storefront sign, tearing the wrap plastered across the shop’s front windows and smashing open an ATM owned by a third party.

Police deny any wrongdoing.

[email protected]

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/21/governments-making-millions-on-illegal-pot-shops-owners
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
So should Marc and Jodie be allowed to open up Valium shops? Why not? It's just medicine. In civilized nations there are laws and regulations. Either nobody can open a weed shop or everyone can, in which case there would be little else but weed shops. I agree that the regs should be the same as for tobacco, but with tobacco you can get a 10k fine or a year in jail for breaking the regs, same with alcohol. That I can agree with. Marc and Jodie just doing whatever the hell they feel like, I don't agree with.

However, if Trudeau makes the penalties more severe than that it would clearly be a double standard and an arbitrary law, since Weed is less dangerous and deadly than either tobacco or alcohol. Which is why I'm 100% certain that the penalties WILL be more severe, since Trudeau is a dictator, or maybe without the "tator" part. If anyone ever gets more than a year for weed they should take it to the Supreme Court, though Trudeau has probably corrupted it. Let Trudeau attempt to justify the difference in legal treatment. What excuse could he possibly use? So let him put his little lopsided legalization in place and THEN make him drop the sentences to 10K or 1 year max, dumb fucker. It's just a matter of fighting the unequal penalties at that point.
 
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torontomeds

Well-Known Member
So should Marc and Jodie be allowed to open up Valium shops? Why not? It's just medicine. In civilized nations there are laws and regulations. Either nobody can open a weed shop or everyone can, in which case there would be little else but weed shops. I agree that the regs should be the same as for tobacco, but with tobacco you can get a 10k fine or a year in jail for breaking the regs, same with alcohol. That I can agree with. Marc and Jodie just doing whatever the hell they feel like, I don't agree with.

However, if Trudeau makes the penalties more severe than that it would clearly be a double standard and an arbitrary law, since Weed is less dangerous and deadly than either tobacco or alcohol. Which is why I'm 100% certain that the penalties WILL be more severe, since Trudeau is a dictator, or maybe without the "tator" part. If anyone ever gets more than a year for weed they should take it to the Supreme Court, though Trudeau has probably corrupted it. Let Trudeau attempt to justify the difference in legal treatment. What excuse could he possibly use? So let him put his little lopsided legalization in place and THEN make him drop the sentences to 10K or 1 year max, dumb fucker. It's just a matter of fighting the unequal penalties at that point.
Only thing is Valium is not about to be legal and is probably dangerous.....It is called civil disobedience....
 

c ray

Well-Known Member
this is how I see it -> in the big war coming the dispensaries - in order to be licensed on a provincial and federal level - will be forced to sell LP products. dispensaries not willing to do so will either stay open and fight against the system or sell out - either to other independent dispensary chains, or to LPs who are buying retail locations (this is already starting). there's still around 150 dispensaries in Toronto alone, and probably around 300+ across Canada. so how many of these 300+ will remain to push back against the system given the lucrative compensation they'll likely receive for cashing out. probably not many. the cannabis sign up clinics across the country are also to be converted into dispensaries at the first available opportunity. a dispensary and a cannabis sign up clinic are both a location and a client list at the end of the day, to be sold to the highest bidder. CC's and Emery's are targeted as the most likely to usurp the planned model and Brier is next. while they may be making lots of cash at the present moment, it takes a lot to fight a war. and it's not just the Emery's, it's the Goodwin's too and another lady that are going to court with substantial charges. they're going to court to fight for the right of the common man to open a dispensary that sells weed grown by the common man.
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Only thing is Valium is not about to be legal and is probably dangerous.....It is called civil disobedience....
No Valium is legal, you can buy it in pharmacies, which I assume aren't black market Valium dealers. Weed won't be "legal" either, if by legal you mean no penalties for possessing, producing or selling. If that's what you think it will be then you're in for a surprise.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
So should Marc and Jodie be allowed to open up Valium shops? Why not? It's just medicine. In civilized nations there are laws and regulations. Either nobody can open a weed shop or everyone can, in which case there would be little else but weed shops. I agree that the regs should be the same as for tobacco, but with tobacco you can get a 10k fine or a year in jail for breaking the regs, same with alcohol. That I can agree with. Marc and Jodie just doing whatever the hell they feel like, I don't agree with.

However, if Trudeau makes the penalties more severe than that it would clearly be a double standard and an arbitrary law, since Weed is less dangerous and deadly than either tobacco or alcohol. Which is why I'm 100% certain that the penalties WILL be more severe, since Trudeau is a dictator, or maybe without the "tator" part. If anyone ever gets more than a year for weed they should take it to the Supreme Court, though Trudeau has probably corrupted it. Let Trudeau attempt to justify the difference in legal treatment. What excuse could he possibly use? So let him put his little lopsided legalization in place and THEN make him drop the sentences to 10K or 1 year max, dumb fucker. It's just a matter of fighting the unequal penalties at that point.
prime example of ludicrous thinking..and you wonder why this industry is so fucked up...?
truth is it help s people unlike most things in this world, specially people like yourself .
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
No Valium is legal, you can buy it in pharmacies, which I assume aren't black market Valium dealers. Weed won't be "legal" either, if by legal you mean no penalties for possessing, producing or selling. If that's what you think it will be then you're in for a surprise.
your thinking is flawed dude..get profit out of your mind
 

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
prime example of ludicrous thinking..and you wonder why this industry is so fucked up...?
truth is it help s people unlike most things in this world, specially people like yourself .
Yeah, so does Valium, it helps people relax. Right now weed is a prescription drug in Canada. Can you open up a store and sell other prescription drugs without any kind of license? If people have a medical need they can get a scrip.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
one will kill and addict the other cannot

cant argue with SOMEONE who has anterior motives like yourself sorry mr (:

but ILL LEARN YA SOON ENOUGH ;)

Marijuana isnt a drug HC says so (:
 
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gb123

Well-Known Member
AGAIN.,,,,aRE YOU READNG THIS,,,

ONE OF THESE THINGS ISNT LIKE THE OTHER CAN YOU GUESS WHICH ONE JUST INST THE SAME...

pot.....VS ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS PLANET!

THIS SHOULD BE FUNNY STUFF (:

aLL OF THEM CAN KILL,,,,, POT CANNOT!

RIDDLE ME THAT ONE BATBLOB
 

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
If anyone ever gets more than a year for weed they should take it to the Supreme Court, though Trudeau has probably corrupted it.
Because Trudeau has definitely appointed anyone to the Supreme Court :roll:

I'll say this though, you're far more tolerable than our last troll.
 

The Hippy

Well-Known Member
Bob's too far stupid to even bother answering ...bye bye Bob-o...run to yer mommy...yer diaper is full .....
 
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