Let's talk about Chemdog...

Howdy folks!

This is my first time running Chemdog. Actually, I am running several Chem based strains... Including 413 Chem "particular cut was chosen from mycotek himself", gg4, Stardawg "Corey" cut and the confirmed SKVA Chem'91....

Now lets get started here... I ain't new to growing, I have 15 plus years under my belt but being from an outlaw state, I don't get access that often to elite clone only cuts... So in all my years I have not ran any Chemdogs...

Ever since day one, I have had issues with specifically my 413 Chem and my Chem'91. The gg4 and Corey are doing amazingly well. I am currently in my 1st week of flower, 5 days to be exact.

Now what I have noticed with the chem'91 and the 413 is that I cannot seem to get them out of a calmag "type" issue they are stuck in. Constantly dealing with this no matter how much calmag I give, Epsom salts (roots or foiliar), it just won't get out of it.

It is clearly a calmag issue though, specifically magnesium more so than calcium. What I believe to be the culprit is back since they first rooted, I have used lots and lots of seaweed juice and recharge "which also contains Kelp", as we know, all of these are high in K. I dosed recharge with almost every watering for over two months and the root systems on these gals are simply amazing! But back to my point... I believe the problem is that all that K has started on a P lockout along with calmag.

So my question is, how do I reverse this? I have stopped the seaweed juice and recharge immediately as my roots could not be any more robust and crazy as they already are, but the P lockout has really dawned on me as well. They have the magnesium def leaves, purple veins, twisting and purple stems, newer growth is pretty small and slow (pointing to a P issue).

I foliar fed some earth juice sea blast bloom an hour before lights off this morning which is pretty high in P... So we will see if this helps. If it does I guess we know the culprit.

But what kind of feeder is Chem dawg? I have read both that Chem was a heavy feeder then I hear a light feeder. I have been feeding them pretty well in between light and heavy, just about medium. Someone said she wasn't big on liking nitrogen, but fed heavily on everything else. I need to get the issue addressed quickly before flowering progresses, or I'm risking losing a little yield in the end.

Also, does she seem to be a calmag, preferably magnesium whore to anyone familiar with her? She has amazing bushy structure, if it weren't for this small problem that I obviously have going in they would explode!

psychadelibud said:

Howdy folks!

This is my first time running Chemdog. Actually, I am running several Chem based strains... Including 413 Chem "particular cut was chosen from mycotek himself", gg4, Stardawg "Corey" cut and the confirmed SKVA Chem'91....

Now lets get started here... I ain't new to growing, I have 15 plus years under my belt but being from an outlaw state, I don't get access that often to elite clone only cuts... So in all my years I have not ran any Chemdogs...

Ever since day one, I have had issues with specifically my 413 Chem and my Chem'91. The gg4 and Corey are doing amazingly well. I am currently in my 1st week of flower, 5 days to be exact.

Now what I have noticed with the chem'91 and the 413 is that I cannot seem to get them out of a calmag "type" issue they are stuck in. Constantly dealing with this no matter how much calmag I give, Epsom salts (roots or foiliar), it just won't get out of it.

It is clearly a calmag issue though, specifically magnesium more so than calcium. What I believe to be the culprit is back since they first rooted, I have used lots and lots of seaweed juice and recharge "which also contains Kelp", as we know, all of these are high in K. I dosed recharge with almost every watering for over two months and the root systems on these gals are simply amazing! But back to my point... I believe the problem is that all that K has started on a P lockout along with calmag.

So my question is, how do I reverse this? I have stopped the seaweed juice and recharge immediately as my roots could not be any more robust and crazy as they already are, but the P lockout has really dawned on me as well. They have the magnesium def leaves, purple veins, twisting and purple stems, newer growth is pretty small and slow (pointing to a P issue).

I foliar fed some earth juice sea blast bloom an hour before lights off this morning which is pretty high in P... So we will see if this helps. If it does I guess we know the culprit.

But what kind of feeder is Chem dawg? I have read both that Chem was a heavy feeder then I hear a light feeder. I have been feeding them pretty well in between light and heavy, just about medium. Someone said she wasn't big on liking nitrogen, but fed heavily on everything else. I need to get the issue addressed quickly before flowering progresses, or I'm risking losing a little yield in the end.

Also, does she seem to be a calmag, preferably magnesium whore to anyone familiar with her? She has amazing bushy structure, if it weren't for this small problem that I obviously have going in they would explode!

Click to expand...

I would ask@chemphlegm but haven't seen him around, did he get banned or something?

psychadelibud said:

Howdy folks!

This is my first time running Chemdog. Actually, I am running several Chem based strains... Including 413 Chem "particular cut was chosen from mycotek himself", gg4, Stardawg "Corey" cut and the confirmed SKVA Chem'91....

Now lets get started here... I ain't new to growing, I have 15 plus years under my belt but being from an outlaw state, I don't get access that often to elite clone only cuts... So in all my years I have not ran any Chemdogs...

Ever since day one, I have had issues with specifically my 413 Chem and my Chem'91. The gg4 and Corey are doing amazingly well. I am currently in my 1st week of flower, 5 days to be exact.

Now what I have noticed with the chem'91 and the 413 is that I cannot seem to get them out of a calmag "type" issue they are stuck in. Constantly dealing with this no matter how much calmag I give, Epsom salts (roots or foiliar), it just won't get out of it.

It is clearly a calmag issue though, specifically magnesium more so than calcium. What I believe to be the culprit is back since they first rooted, I have used lots and lots of seaweed juice and recharge "which also contains Kelp", as we know, all of these are high in K. I dosed recharge with almost every watering for over two months and the root systems on these gals are simply amazing! But back to my point... I believe the problem is that all that K has started on a P lockout along with calmag.

So my question is, how do I reverse this? I have stopped the seaweed juice and recharge immediately as my roots could not be any more robust and crazy as they already are, but the P lockout has really dawned on me as well. They have the magnesium def leaves, purple veins, twisting and purple stems, newer growth is pretty small and slow (pointing to a P issue).

I foliar fed some earth juice sea blast bloom an hour before lights off this morning which is pretty high in P... So we will see if this helps. If it does I guess we know the culprit.

But what kind of feeder is Chem dawg? I have read both that Chem was a heavy feeder then I hear a light feeder. I have been feeding them pretty well in between light and heavy, just about medium. Someone said she wasn't big on liking nitrogen, but fed heavily on everything else. I need to get the issue addressed quickly before flowering progresses, or I'm risking losing a little yield in the end.

Also, does she seem to be a calmag, preferably magnesium whore to anyone familiar with her? She has amazing bushy structure, if it weren't for this small problem that I obviously have going in they would explode!

Click to expand...

If you’re growing organically ask my boy @Rasta Roy. If you’re growing with bottled nutes I’ll say go to the one of the fellas in the Bodhi thread, Greenpoint thread or IHG thread. But if you’re looking for a real representation of chem see if you can get a pack of black gold which is chem91 skva x tresdawg x stardawg, copper chem, motorbreath, valley dawg, or uber dawg..

flush and transplant. sounds rootbound. keep it simpler

Vato_504 said:

If you’re growing organically ask my boy @Rasta Roy. If you’re growing with bottled nutes I’ll say go to the one of the fellas in the Bodhi thread, Greenpoint thread or IHG thread. But if you’re looking for a real representation of chem see if you can get a pack of black gold which is chem91 skva x tresdawg x stardawg, copper chem, motorbreath, valley dawg, or uber dawg..

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I have the skva chem 91. The real deal, confirmed by chemdog. Mycotek has the same exact skva chem 91 clone that I have from the same person. That's where 413 chem came from. The particular 413 cut I have is also a 91 leaning phenos and smells almost identical to its momma.

But now as far as Chem 4, Chem sister, Chem DD etc... I haven't grown those out, but I do have the rarest of all original Chem clone only cuts available, the Skva 91.

I'm using Advanced Nutrients btw, but I do throw in some organics as well.

Velvet Elvis said:

flush and transplant. sounds rootbound. keep it simpler

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No its not rootbound.... Just has a good, nice, full root system.

I transplanted from one gallon containers to 5 gallon a week before flower. I don't wanna go no bigger. I have 6ft ceilings and 22 plants in a 6ft by 18ft area. But I'm used to growing in spaces with short ceilings like this.

Lst plus scrog...



That's just one 9ft area of the grow, I'm standing in the other 9ft area. The side I'm standing in taking the photos is in training progress now. Started in back, working my way forward.

I know what the problem is, too much K early on throughout their entire lives, now messing with the P uptake. I have read others had this problem with Chemdog as well over on ICmag. Now the 413 Chem is paying for it.

But what I'm really wondering basically is just what kind of feeders Chems are. You know, like heavy, moderate, medium, light, sensitive, etc...

And what kind of diets they prefer.

Just to clear it up again, in case I didn't come off clear enough in my original post. The 413 Chem and the chem 91 has been exhibiting this problem since about 2 weeks after rooting, once transplanted from the solo cups to the 1 gals, after a few heavy feeding of seaweed juice and recharge (high K) nutrients, they have been exhibiting this problem ever since. Only improving for short periods with foliar feeds of calmag/EJ sea blast grow. So definitely not root bound since it has been going on right after transplant to 5 gal, before transplant to 5 gal, etc...

It started after the heavier K, low N, Low P feedings. It is well known that high doses of K early on in the plants life, will lockout P, which will lockout cal/mag. I just wasn't thinking... Ugh, a note for me to remember next time!

And it is never a good idea to transplant during flower. Yes I have done it with success, I have also done it with failure and caused stress which in turn really messed the flowering cycle up for me. There is no need for a transplant anyway.

I'm just gonna cut out the recharge, don't need to be focusing on root growth anymore anyway. I'm gonna start with the Mammoth P instead, and focus more on "N-P" dominant ratio, until the mid flower time frame. Then I will start giving the "P-K" again, when it becomes important again.

so much for keeping it simple... chemdog can be very finicky and is sensitive to root issues. yellows easily shows deficiencies easily.

are you able to flush to help with lockout?

I recently had a similiar issue with my grapes 13 and some clones of my own cross. At first I thought it was the cold coupled with old nutrients falling out of balance but after addressing both those issues the cal/mag def seemed to just continue.

It turned out the bag of Tupur I bought, from a different hydro store than my go to shop, was the issue. Either the Tupur, which is a coco mix, dried out too much and needed to be reconditioned or there was something wrong with that batch. Plants would look good for a couple days at a time and then droop and look over watered but weren't and I would have to water them to get them to perk up. After battling that the whole cycle I went out and bought a fresh bag of Tupur from my go to shop and just put my rooted clones in rockwool into the fresh tupur and they are thriving like normal. I just transplanted my goji and tang power seedlings into the fresh tupur as well and they seem to be doing better as well.

So long story short, were plants put in same batch of soil/mix? Nothing you can do at this point be it's something to look at in the future. Hope shit turns around for you.

The only chemdog I've ran was the clone from Harbor side and it was straight candy bomb. I did it in hydro and I believe she had spots from too little cal/mag as well. That was 10 years ago so I can't remember for sure.

thenotsoesoteric said:

I recently had a similiar issue with my grapes 13 and some clones of my own cross. At first I thought it was the cold coupled with old nutrients falling out of balance but after addressing both those issues the cal/mag def seemed to just continue.

It turned out the bag of Tupur I bought, from a different hydro store than my go to shop, was the issue. Either the Tupur, which is a coco mix, dried out too much and needed to be reconditioned or there was something wrong with that batch. Plants would look good for a couple days at a time and then droop and look over watered but weren't and I would have to water them to get them to perk up. After battling that the whole cycle I went out and bought a fresh bag of Tupur from my go to shop and just put my rooted clones in rockwool into the fresh tupur and they are thriving like normal. I just transplanted my goji and tang power seedlings into the fresh tupur as well and they seem to be doing better as well.

So long story short, were plants put in same batch of soil/mix? Nothing you can do at this point be it's something to look at in the future. Hope shit turns around for you.

The only chemdog I've ran was the clone from Harbor side and it was straight candy bomb. I did it in hydro and I believe she had spots from too little cal/mag as well. That was 10 years ago so I can't remember for sure.

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This is a good idea, as I have had some bad soil mix issues myself, not just once.

Also I would say the mammoth p is good ideas, just go light, as it might help break down if you have too much fertilizers.
The only other thing I was going to suggest is very similar, a good light tea that might be more full spectrum mycorrhiza to help process what you say is too much k.
Flushing I have never felt like that corrected anything.
But be patient, and try not too overcorrect, most times they seem to get rebalanced on their own.

psychadelibud said:

Just to clear it up again, in case I didn't come off clear enough in my original post. The 413 Chem and the chem 91 has been exhibiting this problem since about 2 weeks after rooting, once transplanted from the solo cups to the 1 gals, after a few heavy feeding of seaweed juice and recharge (high K) nutrients, they have been exhibiting this problem ever since. Only improving for short periods with foliar feeds of calmag/EJ sea blast grow. So definitely not root bound since it has been going on right after transplant to 5 gal, before transplant to 5 gal, etc...

It started after the heavier K, low N, Low P feedings. It is well known that high doses of K early on in the plants life, will lockout P, which will lockout cal/mag. I just wasn't thinking... Ugh, a note for me to remember next time!

Click to expand...

I have the chem91 skva (yes it's real), Chem4, and ChemD clones. And they are all pretty heavy feeders. When going into flower, they get hungry on the cal-mag early on. The 91 seems to want a a heavy Cal mag feeding all the way through. It's best to run a simple 1 part nutrients if you are on bottles or salts. I go with dyna-gro or Jack's. Never have any issues with them. Enjoy.

I recommend doing a soil slurry test to get an idea what the ph is. It sounds (I'm only guessing!!) like it might be acidic, either from to much nutes or not enough lime. If it's as simple as that all you have to do is topdress some lime.

kona gold said:

This is a good idea, as I have had some bad soil mix issues myself, not just once.

Also I would say the mammoth p is good ideas, just go light, as it might help break down if you have too much fertilizers.
The only other thing I was going to suggest is very similar, a good light tea that might be more full spectrum mycorrhiza to help process what you say is too much k.
Flushing I have never felt like that corrected anything.
But be patient, and try not too overcorrect, most times they seem to get rebalanced on their own.

Click to expand...

Hey Kona, I used 2 1/2 bags Pro-Mix BX total. I amended it with dolomite lime, one tbsp per gallon (should have used more) and plenty of perilite. The BX holds much more moisture than HP, but all that was available at the nursery out of town was BX. I have used both and as I enjoy HP much more, this BX drains excellent with all the added perilite in the mix. It had more than HP would originally have.

I'm gonna order the Mammoth P tonight and get that on the way. Cut out the seaweed juice and recharge as well.

They are due for a feeding tonight so I am gonna up the base nutes a bit and and increase the P and calmag and see if that helps pull them out. Light come on a few hours ago and I have not checked on them since I foliar fed before lights off early this AM. I will report back on it and let y'all know how the foilar did. I mixed it pretty stout.

Fingers crossed....

mrfreshy said:

I have the chem91 skva (yes it's real), Chem4, and ChemD clones. And they are all pretty heavy feeders. When going into flower, they get hungry on the cal-mag early on. The 91 seems to want a a heavy Cal mag feeding all the way through. It's best to run a simple 1 part nutrients if you are on bottles or salts. I go with dyna-gro or Jack's. Never have any issues with them. Enjoy.

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Thanks man. I can definitely see right off the bat that the Chems love their Cal-Mag, mostly Mag. Jacks is a great fertilizer, I have used it for years and even back when it was Peters. I use it mainly on my outdoor grows along with GroMore, time released nutrients, and Earth Juice Sea Blast lines.

I am using AN Sensi a and b currently.

dubekoms said:

I recommend doing a soil slurry test to get an idea what the ph is. It sounds (I'm only guessing!!) like it might be acidic, either from to much nutes or not enough lime. If it's as simple as that all you have to do is topdress some lime.

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That could be a possibility. I really don't think him having PH issues but really you never know.

I didn't add enough lime into my soil mix, I think I might go ahead and top dress with it. How much do you recommend top dressing with?

any pics of the issue itself?? my chem d cookies is showing variegation after running it for several generations with no signs. doesnt seem to affect anything at all but scared me at first. this is the worst. most just have a little bit here and there. apparently its common in chem genetics

DesertHydro said:

any pics of the issue itself?? my chem d cookies is showing variegation after running it for several generations with no signs. doesnt seem to affect anything at all but scared me at first. this is the worst. most just have a little bit here and there. apparently its common in chem genetics
View attachment 4091617

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Whoa yeah that looks ruff. Mine doesn't look near that bad. But as long as it is still performing at its maximum potential that's all good.

I will try and get photos at lights off in the morning. But right now every thing I have is under HID's and we know that doesn't turn out well.