Kali Mist - Serious Seeds

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I wanted to post some pictures of Kali Mist grown Crop Circle Of Bud, even someone with the smallest of areas can grow a tall sativa hybrid like KM. This one is 6.25" to the top of those little colas but they could be bent horizontal if needed, the main colas are about 4" above the bucket rim. I'll probably only get around 4 cups of cured bud off this one.





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The small KM from above is to the right, the Kali Mist on the left is going to be spectacular. Tallest cola about 12" now, stem 54", 4 or 5 weeks into flower. I'm expecting 12+ cups of cured bud from this beauty.






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bongsmilie
WOW! That's so cool!! You're the man!! Thanks for the post!!!! How do you grow Kali Mist so short?, I only have 3 feet of height to work with, can I do the same????

Also, If possible, If I were to grow 9 plants of Kali Mist 3 feet tall each, how much died herb would be produced as an estimate in your experience?

Thanks for your help in advance!!
 

stowandgrow

Active Member
Great grow report Hobbes. Those plants look excellent! I'm ordering some KM myself! It'll be my first go-around with a Sativa, so I'm a little apprehensive about it .................... but I can't wait to see the finished product! Nicely done! +rep
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
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"How do you grow Kali Mist so short?, I only have 3 feet of height to work with, can I do the same????"

Yes you can do the same, very easy but you may snap a stem here and there. Just Low Stress Training (Alpha-bending the stem-omega)

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"If I were to grow 9 plants of Kali Mist 3 feet tall each, how much died herb would be produced as an estimate in your experience?"

If you were to grow my style you could get 1-4 liters of cured bud per plant, depending on your experience and set up. I've measured a liter of bud to vary between 40 grams and 110 grams, even for bud from the same plant - depending on the area of the plant harvested. You will need between 18" x 18" and 24" x 24" for each plant (I use 18" x 30"). I get very high gram per watt yield because of a light mover, root branching, other things.

Interestingly the heaviest liter of bud I had was some stringy sativa like buds I got from a Kali Mist in DWC, they reminded me of a stringy White Widow I had a few years ago. I thought they'd weigh next to nothing, really surprising. In Pro Mix the buds are more compact, in hydro harder and crustier, the buds seem more spread out like the stem of the bud grew and sepeated the nodes.

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Crop Circle Of Bud

I do CCOB, like an inefficient scrog without the screen but the plants are movable. I top my plants once; veg each side of the stem to 22" in a 6" pot; transplant to a 5 gallon pot on an angle; bend the stems around the bucket rim. The branches grow up and the stem acts like a hydro tube feeding each small cola.

The stems virtually stop growing when they're bent horizontal, so I have to veg the plants so they will bend all the way around the 38" bucket rim. A single 38" stem is thicker and harder to train; two 22" stems crossed at the bottom and following the natural curve of a topped plant will train much quicker and easier.

This is a 1 stem Kali Mist at 35" and a 2 stem Flo (18" & 19"). The stem is much thicker and more difficult to bend and train. We need to get the stem around the 38" of the bucket rim to get as many branches as possible, so two thinner, shorter stems are much easier. The stems virtually stop growth and stretch when bent horizontal, many more branches than a vertical plant of the same stem length. The Flo trained in about 15 minutes and the Kali Mist took days.

Flo - Kali Mist


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This Bubblegum's stems weren't crossed and took over a week to train. If crossed I could have done it in a few hours.





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Flo



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Kali Mist


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A Flo (left) and a Bubblegum. The Flo has another week or three, the Bubblegum should harvest in the next week. The Flo is a knarly plant, twisty leaves, small hard buds. This is my second time around for the Flo, the last hermied and I burnt it with Dutch Passion Penetrator. The smoke was so beautiful I had to run it again, this time just a few pre flower pods and bananas on the lower nodes. I picked them off and the plant has been perfect since.



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The Bubblegum (right) is going to be my best producer ever, of Bubblegum. I should get 12+ cups of cured bud.



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The single stem Kali Mist from above on the left; on the right a Kali Mist grown with 4" of height above the bucket rim.




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"What do you mean when you say the stems are crossed?"

Bend them so the stem on your left goes to your right and the stem on your right goes to your left - they'll circle the bucket rim in different directions. The two stems of a single topped plant develop a bowed leg stance and the natural curve circles the bucket easiest if we cross the stems and go the other way - otherwise we have to bend against an already developed curve.

Here's a series of pictures for crossing the stems. The plant is re-potted from 6" pots to 5 gallon buckets - at an angle - to make bending around the rim quicker and easier.

The bucket is a DIY air pruning bucket from a thread linked below. Works fantastic.

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"How long due i keep it died down?"

It takes about 2 weeks for the bend to become permanent but the plants will pull towards the light as soon as they're untied. Bend to the position you want and leave them tied down for the whole grow.

"I also havent watered today, am planning on watering tomorrow, there not going to crack on me will they?"

No, they'll be fine. Stems are easier to bend when the plant needs watering but I bend when the root ball is saturated or dry. Patience and things will be fine. Watering after bending is no problem at all.

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"i have 4 plants tied down and now the side shoots are becoming plants of there own ... once i tie down the plant do i also tie down the side shoots the grow upwards to get in more light maybe ?"

When you bend the top cola of the plant below a node, the branches on the highest node becomes the meristem - the main colas that the plant focuses energy for growth. If you bend the stem horizontal the energy is spread over all of the branches, the tallest getting the most and growing fastest.

Think of the stem as a hydro tube feeding the branches, and the branches each as a small plant. I keep my stems horizontal for the whole grow but will only tie down some of the branches if they stick up over the canopy, extra long branches usually at the base of the plant. As long as the branch is getting light and it's not shading other branches or is too close to the light, it's fine.

Over the first week the side branches will reach up to the light and grow as small colas. Help separate them, arrange for space and light, air flow. I use a tomato cage with almost all my new plants, a couple dozen 24" colas in 3 or 4 square feet.

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"Does toping a plant just mean cutting the top and then two stems will grow?"

Yes, exactly. Cut, as Moe from The Simpsons would say, "Between the leaf holes!". Uncle Ben has a great topping thread:

Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to get 2 or 4 MAIN colas

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"How early do you need to top the plant so it can grow two stems?"

Anytime, even if you top when you put the plant into 12/12 you will get some growth.

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"Do you tie the stems down with just string?"

I use spools of garbage bag ties, the things are fantastic. String is difficult to work with.



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A good root system is essential for a good harvest.

DIY Air Pruning Pot experiment - pictures

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Some pics of my set up.

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/211186-pics-my-garden-ssd-km.html

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bongsmilie
 
I have Seen The so-called Crop Circle of Bud grows that have been documented here And boy am I impressed!!

But I do have a few questions before I can really get down to business:

What is Meant by "fan them out like a deck of cards". I am having a hard time visualizing the training methods used once the plant is already horizontal.

"I start at the base of each stem and match branches from each node, connecting them in the middle by a short piece of twist tie. The idea now is to bring eveything towards the middle and to get the branches in order. After the branches of each node are connected with twist ties start from the bottom of the stems and line up each set of branches like a deck of cards that are fanned out - the branches will pull up towards the light"

I also find this confusing.

Hobbes please set me straight.

CCOB seems like just the thing i need to get my Veg and Flower rooms behind one door.

Oh, and by the way, The Air floor is a godsend for spidermites :) Keep up the good work!

Blue Bunny
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
It means to fan them llike a hand of cards. You'd need some mighty big hands to fan a whole deck.

Semi circle shape.... think peacock and turkey feathers. NBC Logo.
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
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"What is Meant by "fan them out like a deck of cards". I am having a hard time visualizing the training methods used once the plant is already horizontal.

Whiteflower is correct. Blue Bunny it's a method I used to sort long branches on plants that have 24" skinny branches flopping around - the branches got twisted and tangled. I start at the base of one of the two stems (topped once) and untangle the branches, pairing them with the branch from the matching node, working to the cola. I'm not using this method any more, I'm using tomato cages to hold up and separate the colas. Works fantastic, pics below.

With shorter 6" - 8" branches they will reach for the light by themselves, with sometimes help untangling. Support is often not needed.

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"I start at the base of each stem and match branches from each node, connecting them in the middle by a short piece of twist tie. The idea now is to bring eveything towards the middle and to get the branches in order. After the branches of each node are connected with twist ties start from the bottom of the stems and line up each set of branches like a deck of cards that are fanned out - the branches will pull up towards the light"

I also find this confusing.


I'm now using tomato cages with much better results and simpler set up. This is my current Kali Mist, about 30 colas of different sizes. It's got another month or more, I'm hoping for a lot of swell. It's going to be a good producer, 24" tall, 12" top diameter tomato cage.



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Top view of a Train Wreck with another week or so to go. I've harvested a 15 or 20 small colas to give room for some larger colas. Still 10 or 12 colas left.






A Train Wreck cola, crusty.



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This is a Strawberry Cough in an air pruning pot - holes and land scape fabric. Most of the colas are at the first ring, 12", the two main colas horn up to 24".



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This is a Big Budha Cheese, although it looks hap hazzard all of the branches are spaced evenly for max light. 24" cage, about 3 dozen colas.



Cheese from the top. I run wire to place the colas in the middle of the plant.



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bongsmilie
 
Hobbes,

These later photos seem to show non-circular grows.

Are you no longer training the stem around the buckets edge?

Blue
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
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Yes I still train circular, tying the stem down to the bucket rim until the branches and stem stretch is done - when the flowers at the top of the branches/colas start. I don't put the tomato cage in until flowering starts, not while training the stem in a circle. Then I untie the stem from the bucket rim and curve it up the tomato cage at an angle so most of the colas are level. The colas at the base of the plant grow longest and towards the tip of the stem the shortest. An angle on the stem gives move even light to all of the colas. Makes a nice spiral up the cage. I'll take some pics later tonight.

Kali Mist can stretch so much - even when grown LST with many colas - that the branches are often very skinny and have a hard time holding up colas, support is needed. I had a Kali Mist in RDWC stretch from 3" to 3', single stem. Most times I use the tomato cage to arrange the colas to get the most light. I'm thinking of some kind of screen I could attach to the cage, but things have been working well.

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bongsmilie
 

stowandgrow

Active Member
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"If I were to grow 9 plants of Kali Mist 3 feet tall each, how much died herb would be produced as an estimate in your experience?"

If you were to grow my style you could get 1-4 liters of cured bud per plant, depending on your experience and set up. I've measured a liter of bud to vary between 40 grams and 110 grams, even for bud from the same plant - depending on the area of the plant harvested. You will need between 18" x 18" and 24" x 24" for each plant (I use 18" x 30"). I get very high gram per watt yield because of a light mover, root branching, other things.

So, you're saying you could yield between 40 grams, up to 400++ grams???
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
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"So, you're saying you could yield between 40 grams, up to 400++ grams???"

Per plant? The 110 gram liter was stringy buds from the bottom of a plant in DWC, they compressed very heavy. The top of the plant wasn't as heavy per liter because the colas couldn't be compressed much. The plant on the left is the RDWC with the stringy buds on the bottom. It looks like a different strain than the Kali Mist in Pro Mix on the right. To get a feel for the cola width the buckets are 12" in diameter.



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These 4 plants are all Super Strawberry Diesel, big variation from 6" indica to 18" sativas. But the first 3 plants all produced just over 2 liters (8-9 cups) and the fourth close to 3 liters. CCOB isn't as efficient as SCROG but it does produce well. The Light Rail is the real producer, doubles the size of our gardens.

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The four SSDs and in the back a Bubblegum and Kali Gum. All four SSDs have outstanding trichome production.



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Side of the two indica phenos, both are under 6" from the bucket rim.



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Top view. The buds seem to be bulging, about to explode.



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The mid pheno. Big buds.



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Sativa pheno, tallest colas 18".





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I'd say the least a new grower should get per plant would be a liter at 40 grams - in Pro Mix, I don't run CCOB in hydro. I get 2 - 3 liters per plant at probably 60 grams per liter (120 - 180 grams per plant) - 10 plants per grow, 8' x 3' cage, 600 watt light, Light Rail, root branching buckets, air flow from under the leaves, etc. I wouldn't get 1800 grams off a 600 watt light with my set up, but I get 1200 grams (20 liters from 10 plants), sometimes higher even trying new strains all the time (I've got 16 strains going, 3 more ready to germ). All I go by are how many Zip Lock 1 liter and 1/2 liter jars I fill per plant and estimate 2 ounces per liter (4 cups), I stopped weighing as it stopped meaning anything.



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bongsmilie
 

stowandgrow

Active Member
Wow, Hobbes. You've got your shit together!! I too use a light rail (6 foot) with a 1000 watt HPS. I typically have 4 plants in 5 gallon buckets on the go under the HPS. I'd love to have more plants going, but I find that I just do not have the room to do so with all of the exterior branching. I'm really interested in how you're doing things, because based on your info you are absolutely blowing me away with what you are able to yield using 1 600 watt bulb! Simply amazing! I'm going to try your topping/training method on my next run. It looks like you end up with a "bucket-full-o-bud" with the absolute minimal amount of space being used!

Cudos, Hobbes! +rep!
 

stowandgrow

Active Member
A couple questions for you Hobbes (if you don't mind).

1) You said above that you transplant from a 6" container to a five gallon bucket, and do so "at an angle". What exactly do you mean?

2) You are tying down the stem with trash bag twist ties, but what are you securing them to? Do you drill holes in the side of the bucket to loop the twist ties through?

3) You mentioned you are from Canada ......... what part? I'm a Canadian "transplant" living down in the States now, and was just curious (I understand if you don't want to answer this one)!!
 

stowandgrow

Active Member
I have Seen The so-called Crop Circle of Bud grows that have been documented here And boy am I impressed!!

But I do have a few questions before I can really get down to business:

What is Meant by "fan them out like a deck of cards". I am having a hard time visualizing the training methods used once the plant is already horizontal.

"I start at the base of each stem and match branches from each node, connecting them in the middle by a short piece of twist tie. The idea now is to bring eveything towards the middle and to get the branches in order. After the branches of each node are connected with twist ties start from the bottom of the stems and line up each set of branches like a deck of cards that are fanned out - the branches will pull up towards the light"

I also find this confusing.

Hobbes please set me straight.

CCOB seems like just the thing i need to get my Veg and Flower rooms behind one door.

Oh, and by the way, The Air floor is a godsend for spidermites :) Keep up the good work!

Blue Bunny
Blue Bunny. What is an "air floor", and how does it help with spider mites? Any info on how to control those little suckers is much appreciated!!
 

Hobbes

Well-Known Member
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"1) You said above that you transplant from a 6" container to a five gallon bucket, and do so "at an angle". What exactly do you mean?"

Instead of the stem growing straight up at a 90 degree angle to the floor I plant the root ball from the 6" pot on a 45 degree angle in the 5 gallon bucket, then pack Pro Mix underneath to support the root ball. The stems are easier to train because they don't have to be bent down as far.



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"2) You are tying down the stem with trash bag twist ties, but what are you securing them to? Do you drill holes in the side of the bucket to loop the twist ties through?"

Yes, I drill 1/2" holes every inch or so just below the rim, more than I need but it's important to have a tie down where you need it when you need it so I drill holes all around in advance. In this picture you can see the two green twist ties securing each stem to the bucket rim, a small green twist tie holding the base of the stems to the back of the bucket.



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"What is an "air floor""

A raised floor that your buckets sit on, holes are drilled in the floor for air flow. Using a fan to draw air out of the ceiling (or high on a wall) takes out the hot air and new cooler air comes in through the air floor. I also pump CO2 richer air from my living area into my grow area, the hot oxygenated carbon filtered air into my house's air duct system in the winter and out a side vent in the summer. The air drawing up through the leaves helps prevent mold, perhaps the dryness helps with Spider Mites.














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Some benefits of drawing air from under the plant:

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"isnt the stomata under the leaves?"

"A leaf is usually a thin, flexible "sandwich" of plant cells. The outside, the "bread", has waxy cells, to help keep moisture inside the leaf. But it also has holes, called stomata, that allow for the exchange of gases for respiration. Plants "breath in" carbon dioxide (CO2) and "exhale" surplus oxygen (O2), through the stomata, which are mainly on the underside of the leaf."




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Leaf pores, called stomata, are microscopic structures that control the exchange of water and carbon dioxide between the plant and the atmosphere. Stomata evolved when plants colonised land about 400 million years ago and have kept the same general shape ever since. But their size and number has changed quite considerably throughout their history.

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Stomata in green





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bongsmilie
 
Please Show us Pics of your NEW training method.

I too use tomato cages but it involves more "girdling" if that makes sense.

I would like to see when it is that you untrain the stem and the retrain it against the cage if possible.

Thank you so much! You are the reason I STILL haven't "upgraded" to a 1K!

BB
 
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Yes I still train circular, tying the stem down to the bucket rim until the branches and stem stretch is done - when the flowers at the top of the branches/colas start. I don't put the tomato cage in until flowering starts, not while training the stem in a circle. Then I untie the stem from the bucket rim and curve it up the tomato cage at an angle so most of the colas are level. The colas at the base of the plant grow longest and towards the tip of the stem the shortest. An angle on the stem gives move even light to all of the colas. Makes a nice spiral up the cage. I'll take some pics later tonight.

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bongsmilie
Please Do Show us. I Just love this shit...

BB
 
Sorry to be pushy...

But I hope you haven't forgotten about us.

Any further elucidation would just be capital...

Thanks in advance ;)

Blue B
 
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