FEMINIZED seeds are NO guarantee of 100% female plants!

whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
kermit2692 said:
Again, it doesn't make my point null at all when i already myself acknowledged those exceptions, before you even linked it acting like you had some grand new information to blow me away with, and i then go on to say that if these animals have such behavior and we've known about it within a short time after knowing of the animals existence, and that they are the exception not the rule, we would definitely know this happens in cannabis by now IF it did. What you're now saying nullifies my hypothesis actually makes it stronger as it was part of my original argument. You tell yoda "what if they test before the switch." WHAT SWITCH?! there is no switch. Even a hermaphroditic plant will genetically reveal it's original and true sex. Don't you think if they were testing and plants were fem then they switched later in life that the testing facility would know and this would be common knowledge by now as i eluded to for even other reasons?? You seem to be only sucking in the information that works well with your theory and warping the rest to fit your scenario... I bet you voted for Hillary.
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Who I voted for has no bearing on this. Pull the cob out of your ass. I wasn't trying to be a dick. You can not state that environment doesn't affect it. In some animals it happens at the embryotic stage. That may be why the test kits and labs cant determine it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature-dependent_sex_determination
This is of course for reptiles but if you are using animals as evidence, then so will I.


http://www.sky.org/data/grow/c17.html

Direct quote.
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whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
More science that states environment affect sexual expression.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101014121158.htm

Again, this does not reference cannabis like above but states that "species" can adapt and have different sexual expression due to environment.

Nature will find a way. Why is it so hard to believe that cannabis can not be influenced by environment.

We manipulate many environmental factors to get the best out of the plant. Using mixed spectrum. The right temps, and UV.

We know that those things can have positive or negative affects on our plants.

Just not sexual expression though. Come on. Really?
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
From: "Plant Breeding Systems" by AJ Richards
Kay Stevens 1986 report

Cannabis sativa L


Abscisic acid Male
High boron female
Carbon monoxide male
Gibberellins female
Auxin male
Cytokinins male
Photoperiod Long Day Female
High nitrogen male
Phototperiod short day male
Trauma (removal of leaves, flowers or pruning) male

From the book by AJ Richards. It is out of print and I will try to find a copy. These things can affect sexual expression.
 
B

brimck325

Well-Known Member
i've heard so many people say they've had males from fem beans and i'm sure they did.
anyone remember rockster......he stated that a clone turned male........i'm not sure i believed him, but i believe it could happen. mother nature has lots of surprises......science is always being proved wrong.
 
bdt1981

bdt1981

Well-Known Member
whitebb2727 said:
Not being a dick. You said plants wouldn't do it and used nature as an example. I provided a link that showed animals that do it. Kind of makes your point null.

You agree that environmental stress can cause herms, so why is it not possible the good environment influences sex?
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Seems like it should be pre determined but one time that i actually tried to keep 75degree inveg i had 70 percent female one time it was hot in veg i got 90percent male
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
So Doc were you just sitting around drinking whiskey and thought "hehehe I think I'll start some shit" lol. I tend to say I've only had one herm and that was a DP blueberry and have not had any dealings with them for the last 20 years until I grew their think different this summer in the field....let's just say I had mixed feelings about it, mostly good. Over the last 25 years I have grown only clones and femmed seeds, mostly clones, and have not had a full on herm with femmed seeds. Is it possible ..... well yes lol. You, perhaps inadvertantly, give the impression at the beginning that it happens quite frequently which I disagree with, but yup it happens, I see pics here all the time. The last outdoor run was a third generation clone and yes out of 100 plants (not all in my field ;)) there would probably be 30 seeds so yup Hermes I guess, pretty sure stress brought it out due to harsher conditions outside as I had no seeds indoors. I still don't get how there could possibly be a true male from S1's, it just seems impossible :).
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
So Doc were you just sitting around drinking whiskey and thought "hehehe I think I'll start some shit" lol. I tend to say I've only had one herm and that was a DP blueberry and have not had any dealings with them for the last 20 years until I grew their think different this summer in the field....let's just say I had mixed feelings about it, mostly good. Over the last 25 years I have grown only clones and femmed seeds, mostly clones, and have not had a full on herm with femmed seeds. Is it possible ..... well yes lol. You, perhaps inadvertantly, give the impression at the beginning that it happens quite frequently which I disagree with, but yup it happens, I see pics here all the time. The last outdoor run was a third generation clone and yes out of 100 plants (not all in my field ;)) there would probably be 30 seeds so yup Hermes I guess, pretty sure stress brought it out due to harsher conditions outside as I had no seeds indoors. I still don't get how there could possibly be a true male from S1's, it just seems impossible :).
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Possible in the plant kingdom yes but ive never seen it once. Mainly it leaves me thinking a seed got mixed up by a seed factory worker. To say for sure would take a lab and some testing kit as the chemistry of the plant will show differently again to any normal plant as this type of switch is a big physiological change.

Im happy to let it be but cannot support it until it becomes less of a mystery.

Fyi when people quote Jurrasic Parks 'Nature finds a way', it dosent very often its more survival of the fittest and those that dont 'find a way' are often eaten and hence all the dead ends on the evolutionary tree.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Im no geneticist but would be interested in learning more so hopefully we have a resident prof. Lol. Is a herm even a true herm in that it has both male and female parts? It is my understanding that a true herm (both male and female) is extremely rare. Does this mean that a herm is in fact producing femmed seeds but will be way more prone to do this in future generations.
 
T

Test Pilot

New Member
The information in this thread is very interesting. I have developed a genetic test to test whether a plant is male or female, similar to the one the labs use. However, I use mine to test the plants right at the farm so I can get same day results. These tests work by looking for the Y chromosome on a plant. This has led me to wonder if these tests can detect certain types of hermaphrodites i.e. those having a Y chromosome. My research leads me to hypothesize that plants that are stressed shut off the genes that are responsible for producing hormones that govern female traits and turn on genes that are responsible for producing hormones that govern male traits. These plants generate feminized seeds having two XX chromosomes and are therefore genetically female. However, they also pass along the genetics that turned off the female hormones. This tendency to turn off the female hormones is responsible for the genetically female offspring to have a tendency to display male characteristics. This explains why feminized seeds might have a higher frequency of hermaphrodites.

However, I also suspect that some strains have a tendency to produce hermaphrodites is the result of the plant having multiple X chromosomes along with a Y chromosome. I would like to test this hypothesis by testing strains with a high frequency of hermaphrodites for the Y chromosome. If their condition is the result of having a "hidden" X chromosome, the test would detect this in a group of sprouts by identifying a higher percentage of "males" than would otherwise be expected. Once, the plants are old enough to Sex visually, the males could be discarded, but the remaining plants, that were identified as having an X chromosome but visually appear female would be watched to see if they herm at some point with either no, or a minimal amount of stress. This would identify a link between a hidden Y chromosome and hermie tendencies. If anyone has a strain that produces higher than normal numbers of hermaphrodites, I would love to come and run my test on your plants.
 
Kind Sir

Kind Sir

Well-Known Member
I
ruwtz said:
This was a surprise to me too when 3 of 6 "fem" seeds turned out to be male after the flip and a solid 8 week veg. Very frustrating.

24K Gold aka Kosher Tangie by DNA Seeds.

I wrote to DNA (Amsterdam) and they said since they don't retail in the US they couldn't assist me.

Funny cos I boUght the seeds at a CA dispensary.

Sloppy breeding, Useless customer service.

BLAME Trump
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I was pissed when I saw you say it was 24k gold by DNA. I am about to grab some DNA/Reserva beans..
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Multiple X and Y chromosomes is a failed theory for mj, your closer to the modern science with a totally independant system that governs the sex chromosomes and multiple studies have tried to identify certain proteins responsible although with no luck due to the possibility they are too small to presently detect.

The multiplex and y theory did not support the fact that the hermie trait is hard wired and impossible to breed out or produce hermie free seed but the latter independant system does support exactly what we see and why hermie free seed has never been produced or marketed.



Test Pilot said:
The information in this thread is very interesting. I have developed a genetic test to test whether a plant is male or female, similar to the one the labs use. However, I use mine to test the plants right at the farm so I can get same day results. These tests work by looking for the Y chromosome on a plant. This has led me to wonder if these tests can detect certain types of hermaphrodites i.e. those having a Y chromosome. My research leads me to hypothesize that plants that are stressed shut off the genes that are responsible for producing hormones that govern female traits and turn on genes that are responsible for producing hormones that govern male traits. These plants generate feminized seeds having two XX chromosomes and are therefore genetically female. However, they also pass along the genetics that turned off the female hormones. This tendency to turn off the female hormones is responsible for the genetically female offspring to have a tendency to display male characteristics. This explains why feminized seeds might have a higher frequency of hermaphrodites.

However, I also suspect that some strains have a tendency to produce hermaphrodites is the result of the plant having multiple X chromosomes along with a Y chromosome. I would like to test this hypothesis by testing strains with a high frequency of hermaphrodites for the Y chromosome. If their condition is the result of having a "hidden" X chromosome, the test would detect this in a group of sprouts by identifying a higher percentage of "males" than would otherwise be expected. Once, the plants are old enough to Sex visually, the males could be discarded, but the remaining plants, that were identified as having an X chromosome but visually appear female would be watched to see if they herm at some point with either no, or a minimal amount of stress. This would identify a link between a hidden Y chromosome and hermie tendencies. If anyone has a strain that produces higher than normal numbers of hermaphrodites, I would love to come eand run my test on your plants.
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Dendrophilly

Dendrophilly

Well-Known Member
I'm so sure this is a critical mass auto from big buddah, I'm about to cross it with its twin because I didnt get much to grow out of my 10 pack, i think Seeds Man dug an old pack out for me, they were having trouble producing this pack after I paid for it. I just finished off the pack to try and work one of them into some breeding project, now i have this male and Im like a deer in head lights.
1615293910454340354468.jpg
 
Dendrophilly

Dendrophilly

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing I mis IDed this plant, I have a couple plants that are male now and it seems I just lost track of what's what. Threw all the males away because they had no IDs... I'm hoping the other plant I thought was its twin is because I wanted some seeds from that strain :confused:
 
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