Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur (AK47 Grow)

longdongjohnson said:

@homebrewer

Dave Neal (Owner of Dyna gro) talks nutrients on cannabis specifically. Pretty enjoyable.

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Someone sent me a PM a while back with a link to that show. Pretty cool!

I recently scored gallons each of DG Protekt, DG Cal mag, DG bloom. DG grow / yello label pro I think, the liquid molasses, even a small little jar of their green rooting gel! I have gallons of everything except the KLN, which I have 4 separate liters of. I was wondering if you could help me out and explain your schedule for hydro DWC I was comparing the schedules from DG and they differ from what I've read on here. I'm going to be setting up a new grow with 5 gallon buckets in a RWDC set up. I was just wondering if you could share with me how you get your clones ready and with what solutions? I tried switching from AN 3 part grow micro bloom ph perfect solution over to DG nutes and the plants didn't like it. So I finished off with the an and want to strictly use the DG since I have tons of it. I also might be interested in letting some gallons go for a cheap price. thanks

Jason9922 said:

I recently scored gallons each of DG Protekt, DG Cal mag, DG bloom. DG grow / yello label pro I think, the liquid molasses, even a small little jar of their green rooting gel! I have gallons of everything except the KLN, which I have 4 separate liters of. I was wondering if you could help me out and explain your schedule for hydro DWC I was comparing the schedules from DG and they differ from what I've read on here. I'm going to be setting up a new grow with 5 gallon buckets in a RWDC set up. I was just wondering if you could share with me how you get your clones ready and with what solutions? I tried switching from AN 3 part grow micro bloom ph perfect solution over to DG nutes and the plants didn't like it. So I finished off with the an and want to strictly use the DG since I have tons of it. I also might be interested in letting some gallons go for a cheap price. thanks

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RDWC is different than what I do so I'm not sure I can be of much help there. I will say that foliage pro for veg is a no brainer. Combos of FP (or grow) and bloom during flowering is your best bet. You just need enough FP (or grow) to keep the plants green. The rest of your EC can be bloom with a dose of protekt to balance the pH. Unless your water sucks or you're overfeeding, those bottles will kill it.

As far as clones go, I like Dip-N-Grow for rooting. Once rooted, they either go into promix or rockwool cubes.

how do you score gallons of DG and not know how to use it? Anyways hb is right don't go too high of nutes maybe 8-900ppm max depending on strain as DG is potent. when I used DG In DWC 600ppm ish. I used grow, bloom, protekt, and mag, and sweet in ro. I ran 50/50 grow/bloom at the start of flower then slowly lower the grow towards the end. Read through his other threads and there's some valuable information.cheers

I finally got a chance to listen to that podcast thank you for posting that. I didn't really like the radio host... kinda ill mannered jerk who kept interrupting the smart guy with actual science based research and info with his " hu hu im such a stoner surfer jerk voice know it all who likes fish emulsion hu hu cha" ... anyway

I noticed he was saying that Calcium is needed in higher doses than what was it.... N and P combined?? couldve been N and K anyway..

I believe what this fella has to say (Dave Neil) but the formula doesn't really make sense in that case. Unless I'm not doing that math correctly???

He was saying something about the plants (cannabis specifically ) needing 10%+ calcium but the formula only has 2%.

He also said that based on scientific tests done on tissue samples including Cannabis that there are 7 macro not 3 which are
N,P,K,Cal,Mag,and drum roll Silica!

I dunno if you guys have taken the time to listen to this podcast but its very informative.

He was JUUUUST about to give some info on other products that could enhance flavor and aesthetic and aromatic appeal when jerk face DJ pants interrupted him (for like the 10 fecking time!) with his fish emulsion bs yadayada. I do remember reading HB saying that there are some products of this nature...

That said, Dave stated that 90% or some very high %age was attributed to Sulfur when it comes to smell and taste production.

Youngtree777 said:

I finally got a chance to listen to that podcast thank you for posting that. I didn't really like the radio host... kinda ill mannered jerk who kept interrupting the smart guy with actual science based research and info with his " hu hu im such a stoner surfer jerk voice know it all who likes fish emulsion hu hu cha" ... anyway

I noticed he was saying that Calcium is needed in higher doses than what was it.... N and P combined?? couldve been N and K anyway..

I believe what this fella has to say (Dave Neil) but the formula doesn't really make sense in that case. Unless I'm not doing that math correctly???

He was saying something about the plants (cannabis specifically ) needing 10%+ calcium but the formula only has 2%.

He also said that based on scientific tests done on tissue samples including Cannabis that there are 7 macro not 3 which are
N,P,K,Cal,Mag,and drum roll Silica!

I dunno if you guys have taken the time to listen to this podcast but its very informative.

He was JUUUUST about to give some info on other products that could enhance flavor and aesthetic and aromatic appeal when jerk face DJ pants interrupted him (for like the 10 fecking time!) with his fish emulsion bs yadayada. I do remember reading HB saying that there are some products of this nature...

That said, Dave stated that 90% or some very high %age was attributed to Sulfur when it comes to smell and taste production.

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I've done the experiments before, calcium is not needed in the amounts that Dave talks about.

Well that makes my life a lot easier ( and cheaper to ahem) and so I thankee sir!

Youngtree777 said:

Well that makes my life a lot easier ( and cheaper to ahem) and so I thankee sir!

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Think about it: unless you're seeing a deficiency, you likely don't need 'more' of a particular element, especially a secondary-macro element. I'm not saying fine tweaks can't be made to healthy plants to increase output slightly but in my experience, tweaking calcium and magnesium does nothing when an adequate amount is already being supplied.

homebrewer said:

Think about it: unless you're seeing a deficiency, you likely don't need 'more' of a particular element, especially a secondary-macro element. I'm not saying fine tweaks can't be made to healthy plants to increase output slightly but in my experience, tweaking calcium and magnesium does nothing when an adequate amount is already being supplied.

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Homebrewer, I'm curious, what kind of yield increase do you think is possible from really tweaking what we give our plants and having the stars align so to say, as compared to using RO water with Grow or FP and some Pro-tekt and not messing with anything else? I for one always kind of feel the need to be doing more but it sounds like from what you're saying, that the Dyna-Gro base nutrients are already close to perfection and there's not much (if anything) one can do to get markedly better results.

j.ride said:

Homebrewer, I'm curious, what kind of yield increase do you think is possible from really tweaking what we give our plants and having the stars align so to say, as compared to using RO water with Grow or FP and some Pro-tekt and not messing with anything else? I for one always kind of feel the need to be doing more but it sounds like from what you're saying, that the Dyna-Gro base nutrients are already close to perfection and there's not much (if anything) one can do to get markedly better results.

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Foliage pro just kills it in promix. But that 3-1-2 NPK ratio formula with any other brand name on the bottle would do just as well. I think Botanicare makes a 3-1-2 formula too. The tweaks I'm referring to are more for hydro than anything else. For me those tweaks are the FP/Bloom mix during flower.

To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.

If you're looking for yield increases, pruning, topping and training are all things that can really boost yields when mastered. I'm not even close to doing so but it's always something I'm working on.

homebrewer said:

Foliage pro just kills it in promix. But that 3-1-2 NPK ratio formula with any other brand name on the bottle would do just as well. I think Botanicare makes a 3-1-2 formula too. The tweaks I'm referring to are more for hydro than anything else. For me those tweaks are the FP/Bloom mix during flower.

To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.

If you're looking for yield increases, pruning, topping and training are all things that can really boost yields when mastered. I'm not even close to doing so but it's always something I'm working on.

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when you say "promix" what does this mean?
So are you saying you are preferring FP over Grow??

Youngtree777 said:

when you say "promix" what does this mean?
So are you saying you are preferring FP over Grow??

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Google 'promix'. It's a peat-based medium.

Yes, I like FP over Grow from start to finish. For seedlings, I prefer Grow since FP can be a little hot. Once those seedlings have some true leaves I'll switch to FP.

homebrewer said:

To answer your question, I saw about a 10% increase in yield with Foliage Pro as compared to Grow in Promix. Right now I'm testing some potassium sulfate with the foliage pro and I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary. That tells me that all those high potassium 'cannabis specific' formulas are just kind of a gimmick.

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That's interesting and definitely gives us some insight into the relative importance of Phosphorus. I'm wondering if maybe the Potassium is the say way, perhaps there's an ideal range but it doesn't matter all that much if you're in the range. A 10% increase is nothing to sneeze at, but for cutting the Phosphorus by two thirds, I almost would have expected a bigger change good or bad. It seems that even with a lot of Phosphorus in the Grow formula, it still wasn't creating a toxic environment, or your improvement in yield would have been better. I wonder if it was actually the slight increase in N where you got your 10%, or maybe less Phosphorus just gave the rootzone more space to uptake other things and everything became slightly more efficient.

On that note, is tissue analysis a surefire way to look at things like in the DG interview? I ask because aren't a lot of the nutrients used to make other things in the plant like amino acids and sugars? I need to look this up but say the plant uses a lot of N to make it's proteins... then wouldn't the N no longer be present in as large a quantities in the leaf as it's used to make other things?

homebrewer said:

Google 'promix'. It's a peat-based medium.

Yes, I like FP over Grow from start to finish. For seedlings, I prefer Grow since FP can be a little hot. Once those seedlings have some true leaves I'll switch to FP.

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ok i see what promix is..
now on your FP.. do you use ONLY FP or do you use bloom at all anymore?
Do you still stick with the same 500 max PPM in soil-less media??
and finally which promix do you use, i see they have several types... how much does a 3.8 compressed bale expand out to?

j.ride said:

That's interesting and definitely gives us some insight into the relative importance of Phosphorus. I'm wondering if maybe the Potassium is the say way, perhaps there's an ideal range but it doesn't matter all that much if you're in the range. A 10% increase is nothing to sneeze at, but for cutting the Phosphorus by two thirds, I almost would have expected a bigger change good or bad. It seems that even with a lot of Phosphorus in the Grow formula, it still wasn't creating a toxic environment, or your improvement in yield would have been better. I wonder if it was actually the slight increase in N where you got your 10%, or maybe less Phosphorus just gave the rootzone more space to uptake other things and everything became slightly more efficient.

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Phosphorus is not needed in the amounts that are supplied by bloom foods. To that, 'vegging formulas' have more than enough too and are more than capable of taking plants from seed to harvest in promix/coco/dirt. They're not just capable though, they will out-perform bloom foods all day long simply because bloom foods will not maintain green, healthy leaves for very long. Hydro is different though.

You are exactly right about 'ranges' and it's my thought that as long as you are in an adequate range then you're good to go. So I like a 3-1-2 NPK ratio for promix. A 3-1-3, 1-1-1, 2-1-2, 2-1-3, etc will probably do fine too. What's important is the balance. What's important is that there is enough N to keep the leaves intact.

In regards to my test, I think the results would have been more pronounced had I gone from clone to harvest comparing the two formulas. In my test, I treated them the same through veg but then once flower hit, I separated and fed them differently. The difference, in my opinion, was the node spacing and structure. FP for the win.

On that note, is tissue analysis a surefire way to look at things like in the DG interview? I ask because aren't a lot of the nutrients used to make other things in the plant like amino acids and sugars? I need to look this up but say the plant uses a lot of N to make it's proteins... then wouldn't the N no longer be present in as large a quantities in the leaf as it's used to make other things?

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I think a tissue analysis tells you something about what the plant is using and in what quantities. The results beg the question: Are all elements taken up evenly across the board? If they are, you'd want a formula that mimics the results of said tissue analysis.

Youngtree777 said:

ok i see what promix is..
now on your FP.. do you use ONLY FP or do you use bloom at all anymore?
Do you still stick with the same 500 max PPM in soil-less media??
and finally which promix do you use, i see they have several types... how much does a 3.8 compressed bale expand out to?

Click to expand...

I do not use bloom at all in promix. My feeding levels vary but generally never exceed 0.5 EC.

I like the promix BX which when uncompressed is a good amount of media.

Thanks for the reply

Why dont you use Bloom in your soil-less media? Also what DO you use Bloom in??

And is the only difference between HP and BX the myco and bacteria content?

I'm growing in Coco right now and have the Pro-Tekt, Grow, and Bloom... any suggestions?

was kinda following what you were saying in earlier posts to do no more than 200ppm for veg and for flower doing under 500ppm with

what I believe was a ratio of 1:3 grow/bloom is that correct?

I was hoping to use the foliage pro all the way through but it separated during shipping so I've been using a mix of FP and maxibloom for my last 3 runs and it's working like a charm

Youngtree777 said:

Thanks for the reply

Why dont you use Bloom in your soil-less media? Also what DO you use Bloom in??

And is the only difference between HP and BX the myco and bacteria content?

I'm growing in Coco right now and have the Pro-Tekt, Grow, and Bloom... any suggestions?

was kinda following what you were saying in earlier posts to do no more than 200ppm for veg and for flower doing under 500ppm with

what I believe was a ratio of 1:3 grow/bloom is that correct?

Click to expand...

Bloom has too much P and not enough N for plants growing in promix/dirt/coco. I do use bloom in hydro though.

I don't know about the different promix recipes, I use what is sold locally.

At one time I was using a ratio of Bloom-to-Grow in promix but future tests said no bloom is your best route.

homebrewer said:

Bloom has too much P and not enough N for plants growing in promix/dirt/coco. I do use bloom in hydro though.

I don't know about the different promix recipes, I use what is sold locally.

At one time I was using a ratio of Bloom-to-Grow in promix but future tests said no bloom is your best route.

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The plants I thank you kindly for all your coaching good sir!

Blessings to you and your endeavors!