Cloning: do mothers pass along age?

Juan5ernandez

Juan5ernandez

Member
Hey guys, This will be the first year I try and take cuttings. I have been doing a lot of "googling" and I haven't found any answers to my questions so I am hoping you guys can answer it for me.


1.) If I grow a plant from seed, will the age of said plant, once cloned pass along its age to the clones? Or will the clone, once rooted, reset its genetic clock?

2.) I have heard of (based on internet accounts) people keeping "Mothers" 13+ years (clones of clones...etc), does this mean that the genetics of the seedling X generations prior are passed along just as vibrant? does this mean that If I keep my "Mothers" healthy I can keep the strain/plants lineage alive indefinitely?

Any insight into these questions would be greatly appreciate.


Keep it green,

Juan
 
James286

James286

Member
If you keep a mother plant you should be able to keep taking cuttings off of her for a long time and she will be just fine, if you keep her healthy.

I don't know if this is true, but from what I have read if you take a cutting, from a cutting, from a cutting, (and so on) that can weaken the strain. I would like to here others opinion about that.
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
I have seen it happen to friends of mine after running a strain for like 2 years. I'll explain how these things happen because you would think clone means "clone" it does not. What it means is part of the plant is still growing unattached to the host plant.

diligent, responsible growers who know what's up can avoid strain degradation by always taking healthy cuts from the same spot on the plant and it will be the same. Taking off the tops is much different the taking from the bottom, we can all look at our plants and see the way nodes develop is slightly different. Clones from a top generally follow the Christmas tree stature, lower cuts are generally much bushier. It's about the vigor of the side branches opposed to the tip. I don't know how long it took, but after 2 years even the top colas are looking like the popcorn nugs you expect from a bottom branch. The genetics are the same still that has not changed, it prolly has something to do with plant hormones and all that. I know that the plants can still make that original killer bud however I think tops of tops would have to be cloned to get it healthy again. I've noticed those plants fall pray to mites very quickly, I don't know if that's a newer problem or if they were always weak but I don't think 2 years ago he would have grown so attached to it if it was so weak to mites.

imo a strain can be kept 20 + years without problem, you just have to expect problems and constantly protect yourself from them.
 
Galvatron

Galvatron

Well-Known Member
regarding the age of the cuttings, they will not reset their genetic clock and think they are new. the cuttings will be as 'old' as the mother. this is the reason why its easier to flower straight from rooted cutting then 12/12 from seed. the cutting will be more mature and ready to flower then a seedling.
 
Juan5ernandez

Juan5ernandez

Member
Ok, so based on what you guys are saying, is that "we" (the members in this forum) believe in what several other threads on "googl" are calling "Genetic Drift" or a decline in potency correct? If this is true, does this mean that so long as I keep the orginial seedling as a mother, I can take cuttings of the same quality indefinitely?
 
Rancho Cucamonga

Rancho Cucamonga

Active Member
You do not need to keep the original plant or mother in order to continuing cloning a specific strain for many years. One can take cuttings from a healthy vegging plant, grow those cuttings out in veg into full plants, take cuttings from those plants, and so on and so on. Genetic drift is mostly nonsense, it's not an issue with asexual propagation(clones). You will not lose potency from either a mother or continued cuttings.
 
Juan5ernandez

Juan5ernandez

Member
Rancho Cucamonga said:
You do not need to keep the original plant or mother in order to continuing cloning a specific strain for many years. One can take cuttings from a healthy vegging plant, grow those cuttings out in veg into full plants, take cuttings from those plants, and so on and so on. Genetic drift is mostly nonsense, it's not an issue with asexual propagation(clones). You will not lose potency from either a mother or continued cuttings.
Click to expand...
++ Rep, from the additional searching I have been doing the argument for generation drift is that some (albeit fewer than most) people have experienced a degradation in their plants potency and or vigor over the course of the cloning regime. However, the growers experiencing the degradation of their lineage have not taken into account, nor have they provided evidence that one or all of several factors have not contributed to the loss of potency and or vigor, those factors are:

1.) the clones were taken from a unhealthy mother, be it nut deficiencies or disease
2.) the clones that are taken from unhealthy mother plants, are not corrected via proper nutes and TLC, and these problems are passed to the next generation or the diseased plants are not being disposed of and pass this disease along to their cuttings through genetics.
3.) the generation of clones experiencing degradation are not experiencing generational drift (this only occurs sexual propagation) are in fact mutations due to damaged DNA code
4.) Unstable genetics are expressed with the age of the plants lineage, thus leading to the degradation of vigor and "potency"
 
thafoot

thafoot

Well-Known Member
ive been taking clones from clone for years. started with a clone, grew her big, took some cutting from her, threw her into flower, and repeat. in my opinion the bud has gottin better but probably only because ive improved the growing conditions over the time. ive learned how this strain grows.
 
F

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
from my understanding, genetic drift does happen but not at the rate most would think. very seldom do you ever hear of someone saying they've experience this but from time to time it does happen.
one person i could think of off the top of my head is JJ from top dawg seeds and how he talked about how he experienced genetic drift with the sour diesel.

now as far as a plant losing potency, doesn't want to clone as easy as it used to or losing smell through time, that comes from a lack of vigor that the plant has lost through out it's life span.
 
navyfighter04

navyfighter04

Active Member
Their is def. no doubt that cloning a clone and so on and so on will ruin the genetics of the plant. The further away you get from the original genetics of the mother the worse the strain gets, ruining potency and growth potential. I will never clone a clone, ever. Id rather go buy clones or just start over from seed. Just my two.....
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
I have tried a few different strains and they all seem to act differently IMO. Some that I have had would be great and the clones retain the vigour that the mother had, others would be shit! I don't have alot of experience in cloning but did keep a blue berry strain going for 3 years until it died :( from a dead heater. All of the hybrids I have recently grown were not very good candidates for cloning as they did seem to be kinda runty. Also I have read that cloning from clone is not a great way to do it, but have never tried, always use the original. Again it would probably have a bit to do with the plant itself IMO.
 
unlucky

unlucky

Well-Known Member
you get a seed and grow her, then you can start to take cuts from her, over time all the choping you have done on the mother plant will start to take its toll on her so you take your last cuts and grow them out and now you use the new last cuts as your mother plant and round and round you go...and thats how you can keep the same strain for years...... ;-)
 
Sand4x105

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
No Doubt? On the strain I am growing [Horehound] I took around 40 clones from mother...
And now 20 clones from clones, I see and feel [the hi] as there is no loss...in anything, taste/hi/etc...
Now, in 5 or 6 years I'll let ya'll know ...
I am now cloning, the clones clones, with what seems a stable strain...
So, no problems, and I do not expect any problems...
Ya never-never know...
If, I have learned one thing in life, it is "Anything is Possible"
 
F

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
navyfighter04 said:
Their is def. no doubt that cloning a clone and so on and so on will ruin the genetics of the plant. The further away you get from the original genetics of the mother the worse the strain gets, ruining potency and growth potential. I will never clone a clone, ever. Id rather go buy clones or just start over from seed. Just my two.....
Click to expand...
no disrespect but you're talking a pure myth.
 
navyfighter04

navyfighter04

Active Member
Fresh 2 De@th said:
no disrespect but you're talking a pure myth.
Click to expand...
Please enlighten me as to where im wrong. I personally have smoked bud from clones that were cloned from clones and it sucked. Ive also smoked weed from that same clones original mother, and yes it does degrade the strain. Its a fact. The farther away from the mother the less genetics it keeps of it. Making it farther from the original strain. Please prove to me how im wrong....
 
unlucky

unlucky

Well-Known Member
navyfighter04 said:
Please enlighten me as to where im wrong. I personally have smoked bud from clones that were cloned from clones and it sucked. Ive also smoked weed from that same clones original mother, and yes it does degrade the strain. Its a fact. The farther away from the mother the less genetics it keeps of it. Making it farther from the original strain. Please prove to me how im wrong....
Click to expand...
chop chop then mr explane why clone only strains are so fecking yummy ?

http://en.seedfinder.eu/database/strains/cloneonly/
 
unlucky

unlucky

Well-Known Member
navyfighter04 said:
Their is def. no doubt that cloning a clone and so on and so on will ruin the genetics of the plant. The further away you get from the original genetics of the mother the worse the strain gets, ruining potency and growth potential. I will never clone a clone, ever. Id rather go buy clones or just start over from seed. Just my two.....
Click to expand...

​ye ok.................................................................. bull shitter post 4sure ;-)
 
navyfighter04

navyfighter04

Active Member
unlucky said:
chop chop then mr explane why clone only strains are so fecking yummy ?

http://en.seedfinder.eu/database/strains/cloneonly/
Click to expand...
So how does showing me 86 strains out of thousands that are clone strains prove anything. These certain plants genetics are for that reason. I personally have noticed a genetic downgrades in many clones. Im not saying cloning the mother over and over will cause this. Im saying that cloning a clone off a clones clone, and so on. The further away from the mother you get the less of its genetics it has. When you clone a mother the cell make up is slightly different from the mother. So if you clone that one, it changes again, and so on. if im wrong please let me no. Maybe its just a personal preference i dont want to look past. But from personal experience i know cloning a clones clone will eventually produce horrible plants with low yields.
 
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