Cloning: do mothers pass along age?

Figong

Well-Known Member
no disrespect but you're talking a pure myth.
Am not sure how it's a myth..

[h=2]Measuring Genetic Drift[/h] The magnitude of genetic drift depends on N[SUB]e[/SUB], the effective population size, for the population. N[SUB]e[/SUB] is rarely the actual number of individuals in the population (also called N or the census size). N[SUB]e[/SUB] is a theoretical number that represents the number of genetically distinct individuals that contribute gametes to the next generation. N[SUB]e[/SUB] can also be thought of as the number of genetically distinct interbreeding individuals in a population. N[SUB]e[/SUB] is not easy to quantify because it is affected by reproduction and breeding strategies (inbreeding, outcrossing, asexual reproduction), and is dependent on the geographical area over which a population is sampled. N[SUB]e[/SUB] is not easy to define for fungal pathogens that undergo a mixture of sexual and asexual reproduction because the absolute number of individuals can be very large while the number of different genotypes that sexually recombine can be relatively small. An analysis of field populations of the wheat pathogen Mycosphaerella graminicola indicated N[SUB]e[/SUB] of at least 70 strains per square meter (Zhan et al., 2001).

We can calculate how much genetic drift we expect to find in a population if we know the effective population size. The expected variance in the frequency of an allele (call this frequency p) subject to genetic drift is:

Var (p) =
after one generation of genetic drift for diploid organisms.

After many generations of genetic drift, an equilibrium will be reached. At equilibrium we expect that:

Var (p) = p[SUB]0[/SUB]q[SUB]0[/SUB]

Where p[SUB]0 [/SUB]and q[SUB]0[/SUB] are the initial frequencies of the two alleles at a locus.

If p[SUB]0[/SUB]=q[SUB]0[/SUB]=0.5 and N[SUB][SIZE=-1]e[/SIZE][/SUB] = 50 then Var (p) = 0.0025

The standard deviation of (p) = (0.0025)[SUP]0.5[/SUP] = 0.05.

The standard deviation is the average absolute value of the expected difference among populations after one generation of drift and is approximately equal to the expected change in allele frequency (
p) within each population. Thus in a population of 50 individuals, with two alleles beginning at equal frequencies, we expect the allele frequencies to change by about 5% each generation.

The degree of change increases as the population size decreases.

If p[SUB][SIZE=-1]0[/SIZE][/SUB]=q[SUB][SIZE=-1]0[/SIZE][/SUB]=0.5 and N[SUB][SIZE=-1]e[/SIZE][/SUB] = 5 then Var (p) = 0.05

The standard deviation of (p) = (0.05)[SUP][SIZE=-1]0.5[/SIZE][/SUP] = 0.22

In this case, a population that has only five individuals is expected to experience random changes in allele frequencies of about 22% each generation.
 

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
like i said, it rarely happens with plants. people who's been growing the same strain for 20 years that never kept mothers only clones of clones have yet to experience genetic drift. google it, you be surprised how many people growing mj plants have not experienced genetic drift.
what dude is referring to is considered to be a loss of vigor.
 

unlucky

Well-Known Member
So how does showing me 86 strains out of thousands that are clone strains prove anything. These certain plants genetics are for that reason. I personally have noticed a genetic downgrades in many clones. Im not saying cloning the mother over and over will cause this. Im saying that cloning a clone off a clones clone, and so on. The further away from the mother you get the less of its genetics it has. When you clone a mother the cell make up is slightly different from the mother. So if you clone that one, it changes again, and so on. if im wrong please let me no. Maybe its just a personal preference i dont want to look past. But from personal experience i know cloning a clones clone will eventually produce horrible plants with low yields.
i think its more down to you and what your doing, i clone all the time and when my mother plants start to look a little sad i will grow out one of her clones as a new mother and every clone is as good as the first seed i used, ive had og kush going over 3years and i can still pop a seed and its no better than the clones ive got going
 

unlucky

Well-Known Member
Science has already proven what your trying to contradict.......No bull shit....Just science....

​if that makes you feel better then go with it and keep popping them seeds and i will stick to my clone only and getting very high....... ;-)
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
Ok Ok...im gonna agree to disagree. I notice sometimes its the better thing...We all grow. What works for me may not work for you. Dont want to start shit with the good folks here. IMO i do believe that throughout time, cloning clones changes its genetics from the mother to the point that the mothers traits are no longer really there. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. To the OP, I personally dont and wont clone clones. Others will. Its like this with everything. Not everyone will agree. I will not change my mind on this subject as its what i truly believe to be correct. But i dont expect others to change their mind just because of what im saying. Good Luck
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
​if that makes you feel better then go with it and keep popping them seeds and i will stick to my clone only and getting very high....... ;-)
Glad it gets you high. No point growing shit that wont fuck you up right? My shit is strong enough for me, so keep growin the way you are and i will continue my way. Good luck with your future cloning.
 

unlucky

Well-Known Member
Ok Ok...im gonna agree to disagree. I notice sometimes its the better thing...We all grow. What works for me may not work for you. Dont want to start shit with the good folks here. IMO i do believe that throughout time, cloning clones changes its genetics from the mother to the point that the mothers traits are no longer really there. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. To the OP, I personally dont and wont clone clones. Others will. Its like this with everything. Not everyone will agree. I will not change my mind on this subject as its what i truly believe to be correct. But i dont expect others to change their mind just because of what im saying. Good Luck

​get your self some clone only like exo/livers-blues then clone the shit out of them and i bet you don't come back on here saying clone from clone from clone is shit....go on i bet you ;-)
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Ok Ok...im gonna agree to disagree. I notice sometimes its the better thing...We all grow. What works for me may not work for you. Dont want to start shit with the good folks here. IMO i do believe that throughout time, cloning clones changes its genetics from the mother to the point that the mothers traits are no longer really there. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. To the OP, I personally dont and wont clone clones. Others will. Its like this with everything. Not everyone will agree. I will not change my mind on this subject as its what i truly believe to be correct. But i dont expect others to change their mind just because of what im saying. Good Luck
Your wrong good sir. I too have had a og kush mother plant for years. Taken cuts off those made new moms from time to time. All from the same little clones I got 5 years ago. Never has degrade of anything happened. Please believe me. I love u dude!
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
​get your self some clone only like exo/livers-blues then clone the shit out of them and i bet you don't come back on here saying clone from clone from clone is shit....go on i bet you ;-)
I will take you up on that. I just started smoking this morn, so im sorry for sounding like an ass.......
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Your wrong good sir. I too have had a og kush mother plant for years. Taken cuts off those made new moms from time to time. All from the same little clones I got 5 years ago. Never has degrade of anything happened. Please believe me. I love u dude!
Based on the formulas I posted to calculate it.. there is a chance that it could - it's by no means guaranteed at that point so you may have gotten lucky and others may have had a bad genetics roll re: allele pairings at locus
 

unlucky

Well-Known Member
Your wrong good sir. I too have had a og kush mother plant for years. Taken cuts off those made new moms from time to time. All from the same little clones I got 5 years ago. Never has degrade of anything happened. Please believe me. I love u dude!
love is in the air
<span style="color:#ff0099;"><font size="5"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms;">[video=youtube;58T0NlhNweA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58T0NlhNweA[/video]
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
Ok Ok...im gonna agree to disagree. I notice sometimes its the better thing...We all grow. What works for me may not work for you. Dont want to start shit with the good folks here. IMO i do believe that throughout time, cloning clones changes its genetics from the mother to the point that the mothers traits are no longer really there. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. To the OP, I personally dont and wont clone clones. Others will. Its like this with everything. Not everyone will agree. I will not change my mind on this subject as its what i truly believe to be correct. But i dont expect others to change their mind just because of what im saying. Good Luck
when you take a clone, there is no changing of the genetics m8.. that's the whole point of cloning to begin with...

think of cloning as just continuing the same plant for years and years and years as that's exactly what you're doing.. it's always going to have the same genetics as the first plant it came from as technically, it is the same plant.. if it were a human, and you started off with a blonde hair, blue eyed person, and you cloned it for years and year, you'd still end up with a blonde with blue eyes, not a brunette with brown eyes.. same thing with plants..
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
love is in the air
<span style="color:#ff0099;"><font size="5"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms;">[video=youtube;58T0NlhNweA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58T0NlhNweA[/video]
My bud Vinnie says that shit to me all the time. I love you man. He says it everytime i piss him off. Just reminded me of it....Fucking funny....This blue cheese is making my morning now....Ahhhh...good ol' weed....
 

Fresh 2 De@th

Well-Known Member
Based on the formulas I posted to calculate it.. there is a chance that it could - it's by no means guaranteed at that point so you may have gotten lucky and others may have had a bad genetics roll re: allele pairings at locus


dude that formula you posted isn't even worth looking at when it comes to mj plants. go to the farm and look for a thread on this exact topic and you will see very knowledgeable people posting shit that confutes that theory you so gladly posted.
 

navyfighter04

Active Member
its a pitty your miles away from me as i'd send you some cuts you will never turn your back on thats 4sure ;-)
Too bad to cause i dont have any mothers alive right now since i just moved and didnt want to move them. And im starting my next grow in a week or two from seed. It does suck not having mothers to clone from.....
 

unlucky

Well-Known Member
when you take a clone, there is no changing of the genetics m8.. that's the whole point of cloning to begin with...

think of cloning as just continuing the same plant for years and years and years as that's exactly what you're doing.. it's always going to have the same genetics as the first plant it came from as technically, it is the same plant.. if it were a human, and you started off with a blonde hair, blue eyed person, and you cloned it for years and year, you'd still end up with a blonde with blue eyes, not a brunette with brown eyes.. same thing with plants..

&#8203;wanna clone me mr racer lol ;-), hope your well and high an happy ;-) x
 
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