Automatic nutrient refill systems - Anyone use one, or know of a good DIY way?

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I kind of don't see the point in those $y$tem$ that keep a constant measure of the ppm and pH levels, and let you change them remotely. I guess if you're changing crops, and have to monitor everything remotely,.. but i'd feel the need to know what to give the ladies before i left them. And their probes can't be any better then the ones in pens, that don't last long. It's hella cool and all, but if you run DTW then pH and ppm never change, and you don't need that expensive stuff to go wrong too. I don't check my ppm or pH but once, when i fill, if then. Because i know exactly how much water and nutes to add, it's just a repetitive task in my setup. I go on short vacations all the time, and the only problem i have is plants growing into lights, lol.. i would like to be able to adjust them remotely :)



update:

IMG_2138.jpg

made some new quick connect caps, from some old 3/8 to 1/4 adapters i had laying around. just an 11/16th whole and a lot of glue
:bigjoint:
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
So i found two free, roughly 6 gallon coolers for the build. One sits atop the other, with a shelf in between. The nutes in the top cooler, the res in the bottom, all the dosing work gets done on the center shelf. Very sweet looking setup, but some bad news,.. in my testing now, the dripper doesn't stop dripping when the water level reaches it. Quite the crucial aspect to my initial design.... :-?
I must not have given it enough time before. Or, what i think happened, i let a lot more drip out the first time, so the vacuum created after some time will stop the flow perhaps, but if it wont when you drop a new bottle in whats the point. Unless i find a way to have it gravity drip only around 6, 12, and 18mL, then stop, i'm starting to think pumps, and AdvancedNewbie's design might be the way to go.


EDIT:
http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/tube2.cgi?submit=Entry
.25" tubing has .125" i
nside Diameter,... and 20" of the stuff holds 12.06 mL. hmmm...
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, it seems any pressure keeps the dripper dripping now. I think it was the negative vacuum from letting so much drip before it hit the dripper tip i created in the first test, that stopped it, but then again maybe if i would have watched a bit longer it would have kept filling. There will always be a bit of pressure at a dripper placed below it's res, so i think something must stop the measured dose fill up. Something must contain it with equal pressure.

A measured amount of 1/4 line, tested and knowing its exact liquid holding volume, placed after the dripper and before the noid, is what i'm testing now (just using a plug to act as the noid till i get them for real). But that 'measured amount of 1/4 line' wont fill up after the line drains and the noid closes, air will be trapped in it. There has to be something to let the captured air out of the line. I don't know of any better solution, so i ran an air line from just above the noid, to above the nute res. It's about 18" though, and it will fill with some nutes too, possibly an 11" variance, which is how tall the bottles are. If my math is right that'd be a variance of 6mL. Too much for my standards, i could use a thinner tube perhaps. But i'm testing it now and will see how far the nutes go up the air line, and let you know the difference doing it this way, between a full, half full, and almost empty gallon jug.


@Joedank
...blumat's dude? Do you have any concept of what i'm doing at all? lol

 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
BTW,..
How do you make those drawings so good man? What program do you use for them? There nice, and you seem prettty good with um :)

EDIT:
Rather then pump ing the nutes, i could also double up on the noids, and use 'normally open' solenoid valves in place of the drippers. They'd fire close, while the 'normally closed' valves opened and dropped the dose in the res.
 

berkman858

Well-Known Member
BTW,..
How do you make those drawings so good man? What program do you use for them? There nice, and you seem prettty good with um :)

EDIT:
Rather then pump ing the nutes, i could also double up on the noids, and use 'normally open' solenoid valves in place of the drippers. They'd fire close, while the 'normally closed' valves opened and dropped the dose in the res.
That would work but with all this gear and time spent, won't you be approaching the cost of buying a nutrient dispenser? I don't know I haven't looked up their prices lately. I am not saying don't do it because I am all about DIY but there does come a point when it has diminishing returns. Not trying to be a buzz kill just throwing the idea out there because I know I hate to see my projects work ok when I could have just spent a little money and done it perfectly. That's why I bought an environmental controller when I chose to go with CO2.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Noids we're only $10 a piece, and my build cost so far, as i said, is around $100. How much did you pay for your environmental controller? Do you know of a auto nute doser for 'a little money' more then what i'm currently dropping? Even if what i'm doing doesn't work, but i bet it will, i could always use the noids elsewhere. :)
 

berkman858

Well-Known Member
Noids we're only $10 a piece, and my build cost so far, as i said, is around $100. How much did you pay for your environmental controller? Do you know of a auto nute doser for 'a little money' more then what i'm currently dropping? Even if what i'm doing doesn't work, but i bet it will, i could always use the noids elsewhere. :)
Why do you have to bring up painful things like the cost of my environmental controller??? :wall: That was definitely something I couldn't make on my own without exceeding the cost of just buying one. Again, not saying don't do it.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
So you know whats better then one dripper on a gallon of nutes? Two!! And guess whats better then two?... Yep, THREE!!! So yeah, i'm making progress. I've got all but one order of parts delivered, unfortunately its the 3 noids for the nutes. But in the mean time i'm playing with how to lower the flow rate on the gallon. I only NEED it to drip a few mL a day, and no dripper comes close to those numbers, .5GPH being the lowest. It'll take 2.5 minutes to top off 2 gallons in my res, and the water level controller will pop all the noids at once, and unfortunately keep the nute noids open that whole time too. With one dripper in line, it drips 8mL in 2.5min. That's well over the minimum i would add of one of the chemicals, so unacceptable. Two drippers inline lowers it to 5mL, and three lowers it to 3mL over 2.5 minutes. Which is lower then the minimum id add of one of the chemicals, and able to be factored in, so i think it's doable. The more mL someone would auto dose the easier everything would be.

With my small res, i kind of like the idea of a few mL (as long as it's a consistent amount) dripping into the res as the res swirls full of fresh water. Because no doubt what will kick on the water fill, and the measured nutes dropping into the tank, is the pump lowering the res level enough, so the pump will be sucking from the res a bit, as it's being filled. Not ideal, but i think adding 2 gallons back to a 6 gallon res, with 4 already in there, and having minimum a third of the nutes dripping in as it fills, will suffice to dilute things enough, and keep the pump from sucking up any concentrated amount of solution, at any time.

A 'normally open' or (NO) solenoid in place of the drippers, that fired closed, when the ones below the syringe opened, would be tits, but (NO) noids are like $30 a pop, i don't want to go there less i have to. Oh yeah by the way, i wasn't ok with just a measured amount of 1/4 line being the adjustment for dosing, so i factored in a syringe, pictured below. $4 at the pet store. One line going into it is the drip line coming from the bottle of nutes, the other, since the noid will make an air lock inside the syringe, is an air return line so it can fill to the amount i tell it to. I'm going to place the noid as close to the syringe tip as i can, actually i plan to put the tip of the syringe right into it, to cut down on liquid outside the syringe. I also ran a little over a foot of wire down the 1/4 air return line leading out of the syringe, since fluid will fill that line a bit, and the less volume in the line, the less solution outside the syringe.

IMG_2143.jpg
.5gph dripper is above the syringe, they drip too damn much, so i pulled them apart, and wrapped teflon tape around the inner workings. It really helps to slow the flow. I did it to all 3 drippers, 2 not pictured.

IMG_2146.jpg
drip.. drip.....

So I've been messing with this syringe for 2 days now, and when the chemical level reaches the amount i set, no more drip drip. Just a tiny bit goes into the air line. I gotta test how consistently accurate it doses, a full bottle vs an almost empty gallon bottle of nutes, so the verdict is still out on the dripper, but at least the syringe gives me easy adjustability.



EDIT: May 5
Liquid Level Control functioning!
 

Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
Noids we're only $10 a piece, and my build cost so far, as i said, is around $100. How much did you pay for your environmental controller? Do you know of a auto nute doser for 'a little money' more then what i'm currently dropping? Even if what i'm doing doesn't work, but i bet it will, i could always use the noids elsewhere. :)
Peristaltic pumps on timers - much, much, much more reliable than the setup that you're devising.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Peristaltic pumps on timers - much, much, much more reliable than the setup that you're devising.
...and you know this because you've already built the setup i'm devising?...

Sounds like negativity, and misguided thoughts, that things can't be done right less you drop a lot of money on it. One peristaltic pump cost as much as i've already spent for all the parts i actually need, and it's more then reliably doable. The biggest variance, is the continued drip after all the noids open, but that is quite chokable, 100% calculatible, and consistent, (via some pretty nifty tricks i came up with) to less than 1 mL of variance, from beginning to end of gallon drip. To be mixed with 4 gal of water. Thats plenty accurate IMO, and whats more 'reliable' then gravity i ask?

The bigger the res, and the quicker you can refill it, the more accurate the whole system becomes. Why by an EC for thousands, or spend almost as much on pumps and timers as it would cost to buy one. This is a simple concept,.. accurate gravity drip dosing has been around for thousands of years.

The nasayers will probably never believe what they see when i'm done anyway, just because it was so cheap to do, but rest assured this will more accurately dose my res daily, then i've ever taken the time to do pouring nutes into a 1/2 cup measuring cup every two weeks.
 

berkman858

Well-Known Member


...and you know this because you've already built the setup i'm devising?...

Sounds like negativity, and misguided thoughts, that things can't be done right less you drop a lot of money on it. One peristaltic pump cost as much as i've already spent for all the parts i actually need, and it's more then reliably doable. The biggest variance, is the continued drip after all the noids open, but that is quite chokable, 100% calculatible, and consistent, (via some pretty nifty tricks i came up with) to less than 1 mL of variance, from beginning to end of gallon drip. To be mixed with 4 gal of water. Thats plenty accurate IMO, and whats more 'reliable' then gravity i ask?

The bigger the res, and the quicker you can refill it, the more accurate the whole system becomes. Why by an EC for thousands, or spend almost as much on pumps and timers as it would cost to buy one. This is a simple concept,.. accurate gravity drip dosing has been around for thousands of years.

The nasayers will probably never believe what they see when i'm done anyway, just because it was so cheap to do, but rest assured this will more accurately dose my res daily, then i've ever taken the time to do pouring nutes into a 1/2 cup measuring cup every two weeks.
I am not so sure it should be taken as negativity as much as just plain advice, not advice that you have to take just advice. I am all with you on DIY to teach yourself new things and to prove ideas in your head so don't think I have to spend money to be happy. I came up with a pretty nice lifting station to empty my res to the bathroom up one floor from my grow. Yes it did cost a little money for the pumps but that was unavoidable. Check it here.

No matter how you take other people's comments, I hope you continue to pursue your DIY goals.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I guess it does boil down to how i "take it",.. but it's pretty hard to even see it any another way when know damn well he didn't read what i've typed, or he'd know the pump idea was already brought up. He just chimed in here because i chimed back in on a thread he posted in. I've also made it pretty clear i'm looking to keep the cost a lot lower then peristaltic pumps would ratchet it up to. Nor could he have a clue of reliability i've got going so far, and i'm not even done yet, lol
 

berkman858

Well-Known Member
I guess it does boil down to how i "take it",.. but it's pretty hard to even see it any another way when know damn well he didn't read what i've typed, or he'd know the pump idea was already brought up. He just chimed in here because i chimed back in on a thread he posted in. I've also made it pretty clear i'm looking to keep the cost a lot lower then peristaltic pumps would ratchet it up to. Nor could he have a clue of reliability i've got going so far, and i'm not even done yet, lol
True, true, and true. Don't worry about haters, they are here to hate. They are just doing their jobs. :hump:
 

Bob Smith

Well-Known Member
I guess it does boil down to how i "take it",.. but it's pretty hard to even see it any another way when know damn well he didn't read what i've typed, or he'd know the pump idea was already brought up. He just chimed in here because i chimed back in on a thread he posted in. I've also made it pretty clear i'm looking to keep the cost a lot lower then peristaltic pumps would ratchet it up to. Nor could he have a clue of reliability i've got going so far, and i'm not even done yet, lol
I know a pump idea was brought up, but no one had used the word "peristaltic" and I thought it might be something worthwhile for you to look into. Just FYI, I read threads (in entirety, 99% of the time) before I comment on them.

No idea in the world what you're referring to about you chiming in on a thread I posted in.

Best of luck.
 

DIYer

Well-Known Member
DIYer: You ended up using the level controller? For your res?
Yep! And i've tested it too btw, and it works. Real simple to hook up too once you look at the directions for a sec. I always get a bit worried when i see circuitry, but it's simple. I even wired the 3 sensor wires, to stainless steel bolts, on the outside of the res, so the bolt heads inside can detect the water without corroding. I'm sure the little sensors they include with it would have.

I emailed General Hydroponics Nutrients last week. Finally got a reply today. On there bottles it says the chemicals can't be combined, but i asked if bleach could be combined with any of the three flora series. It would save me from having to hook up a 4th drip just for a small amount of bleach. There reply was a let down in the companies overall competence to say the least:

"Why would you want to add bleach to the Flora Series? Chlorine is toxic to plants."

lol!
What a fucking idiot, to not even realize, bleach is added to res's filled with their chemicals and water all the time, all across the world. Its also by no means toxic to plants at the right dosage.

Watch out,
The world is full of idiots
 

berkman858

Well-Known Member
Yep! And i've tested it too btw, and it works. Real simple to hook up too once you look at the directions for a sec. I always get a bit worried when i see circuitry, but it's simple. I even wired the 3 sensor wires, to stainless steel bolts, on the outside of the res, so the bolt heads inside can detect the water without corroding. I'm sure the little sensors they include with it would have.

I emailed General Hydroponics Nutrients last week. Finally got a reply today. On there bottles it says the chemicals can't be combined, but i asked if bleach could be combined with any of the three flora series. It would save me from having to hook up a 4th drip just for a small amount of bleach. There reply was a let down in the companies overall competence to say the least:

"Why would you want to add bleach to the Flora Series? Chlorine is toxic to plants."

lol!
What a fucking idiot, to not even realize, bleach is added to res's filled with their chemicals and water all the time, all across the world. Its also by no means toxic to plants at the right dosage.

Watch out,
The world is full of idiots
That's rather disappointing. I am glad I use House and Garden nutes.
 
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