Automatic nutrient refill systems - Anyone use one, or know of a good DIY way?

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DIYer

Well-Known Member
I run drain to waste, and have a dedicated water line in my grow room as well. So i'm thinking of sizing down my res, (currently 40 gallons), since I only go through around 3 gallons per day max, and refilling is getting annoying. Even if it is only once every 2 weeks, ha..
So i'm thinking of going auto refill system. I can easily hook my water line to some sort of float, but not finding much for delivering small amounts of nutes per day, to a res. I kind of wish i could just hook the gallon jugs of nutes, and the water line, up gravity dripper style, but can't find anything that drips slow enough. Only a few ml per day of each nutrient, and like i said 3 or so gallons of water, per day, would be required. I've heard of some folks having setups that hook to the net and they can adjust nutes with there iPhone bla bla blah. Cool but way over the top IMO. My system is very consistent, no need for such highfalutin adjustability, ha. I just want something simple to deliver a few ml of nutes per day reliably. Any ideas?

:peace:
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
You can mix the nutes with water so you can deliver larger (dilute) quantities. Do a search on an ORP controller they are used in pools the ones that actually work aren't cheap though.
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
I am very interested in how you would prevent precipitation when all of the nutes are mixed together, unless you get a 1 part solution. That's reason the nutes come in so many different bottles. Base nutes, plus additives. I am up to about 8 or 9 different bottles for my solution at week 3 of flower.

Or maybe I misunderstood you, I am thinking you are talking about having a concentrated nutrient solution to be "dripped" into the reservoir and mixed with water coming from another float valve. Am I understanding you correctly?
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
8 or 9 different bottles?!? Man, i bet the hydro stores love seeing you walk in, lol :hug: I only use general hydroponics flora series personally, (3 one gallon bottles) and my plants love it. Sorry if i wasn't clear, the idea as a whole is kind of still up in the air in my mind, trying to figure something out for cheap, but i'll try to better explain.

What if i hung the 3 one gallon bottles of nutes upside down, and run a 1/4 line out of the caps, down into 3 small plastic beakers. Then run another line out the bottom of the beakers and pinched by three solenoids, which could easily be set on a timer to open once a day for only a few seconds, just long enough for the measured nutes from the beaker to gravity drain through a little run of line, past the open solenoids, and into the res.
It says right on my bottles that the nutes can't touch one another before in water so that's why i think i'd need 3 separate everything for this.

See i'm thinking of how a water cooler works to gravity refill, and that i might have adjustability in the amount of nutes i add, by lowering or raising the end of the line running down into the beaker. I'm just not sure if it'll reliably fill the beaker to the same amount before it stops.

EDIT:
Actually,.. as the solenoids would open gravity would allow more liquid from the bottles of nutes to pour way too much through the system. So i'm thinking at the end of the line leading from the bottles of nutes to the beakers, i should put a low flow dripper so when the timers go off and the solenoids open, at worst a few drops more slip through into the res.

EDIT x2:
Actually,.. scrap the single line idea, like any water bottle, air is going to need to get into the bottles to replace the liquid, and that ain't happening through 1/4 line, maybe not even 3/8, not that any air would go back through a dripper anyways.....
But!,.. What if i ran two lines from the upside down bottles,.. one from the cap, and one from the bottles bottom, both down into the beaker, and kept at the same height in the beaker. I'm sure this would let air into the bottle and allow a dripper to drip, but when the fluid level reached that of the dripper tip, and the air return line, THEN would it stop dripping? lol.. I should probably just test this, but maybe someone can follow my ramble and will save me from pouring nutes all over the kitchen counter, ha
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
8 or 9 different bottles?!? Man, i bet the hydro stores love seeing you walk in, lol :hug: I only use general hydroponics flora series personally, (3 one gallon bottles) and my plants love it. Sorry if i wasn't clear, the idea as a whole is kind of still up in the air in my mind, trying to figure something out for cheap, but i'll try to better explain.

What if i hung the 3 one gallon bottles of nutes upside down, and run a 1/4 line out of the caps, down into 3 small plastic beakers. Then run another line out the bottom of the beakers and pinched by three solenoids, which could easily be set on a timer to open once a day for only a few seconds, just long enough for the measured nutes from the beaker to gravity drain through a little run of line, past the open solenoids, and into the res.
It says right on my bottles that the nutes can't touch one another before in water so that's why i think i'd need 3 separate everything for this.

See i'm thinking of how a water cooler works to gravity refill, and that i might have adjustability in the amount of nutes i add, by lowering or raising the end of the line running down into the beaker. I'm just not sure if it'll reliably fill the beaker to the same amount before it stops.

EDIT:
Actually,.. as the solenoids would open gravity would allow more liquid from the bottles of nutes to pour way too much through the system. So i'm thinking at the end of the line leading from the bottles of nutes to the beakers, i should put a low flow dripper so when the timers go off and the solenoids open, at worst a few drops more slip through into the res.

EDIT x2:
Actually,.. scrap the single line idea, like any water bottle, air is going to need to get into the bottles to replace the liquid, and that ain't happening through 1/4 line, maybe not even 3/8, not that any air would go back through a dripper anyways.....
But!,.. What if i ran two lines from the upside down bottles,.. one from the cap, and one from the bottles bottom, both down into the beaker, and kept at the same height in the beaker. I'm sure this would let air into the bottle and allow a dripper to drip, but when the fluid level reached that of the dripper tip, and the air return line, THEN would it stop dripping? lol.. I should probably just test this, but maybe someone can follow my ramble and will save me from pouring nutes all over the kitchen counter, ha
Click to expand...
Hahahah, enough edits bro? You have some good ideas and I think you are on the right track to create a DIY nute dispenser. For the air flow back into the bottles you can put a hole in the top (bottom, whatever is above) of the bottle and run an equal diameter hose up from there to allow air flow into the bottle to replace the fluid. You will have to do a lot of fine tuning to get the solenoids to perfectly release the right amount of nutes out unless you get some sort of flow regulator like you mentioned. Then it's just a matter of doing some math.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
DIYer said:
......snip.....

EDIT x2:
Actually,.. scrap the single line idea, like any water bottle, air is going to need to get into the bottles to replace the liquid, and that ain't happening through 1/4 line, maybe not even 3/8, not that any air would go back through a dripper anyways.....
But!,.. What if i ran two lines from the upside down bottles,.. one from the cap, and one from the bottles bottom, both down into the beaker, and kept at the same height in the beaker. I'm sure this would let air into the bottle and allow a dripper to drip, but when the fluid level reached that of the dripper tip, and the air return line, THEN would it stop dripping? lol.. I should probably just test this, but maybe someone can follow my ramble and will save me from pouring nutes all over the kitchen counter, ha
Click to expand...
The health care community has already solved this problem. All you need are some old IV bottles/bags and controllers. The old IVACs we used would work for you. Call a medical supply store and ask them where you can buy old used medical equipment. You may need an Rx from your doctor so you can buy an old IVAC and you'll need the cassette for it. Again expensive solution but it would work and it would be accurate.

If you can I'd look for the old glass 2 liter peritoneal dialysate bottles. If you can't find those I'd look for the regular 1 liter old glass bottles. Back in the day we'd use the old glass bottles for fish aquariums. The reason the glass bottles are nicer than the plastic bags is they have these very nice black corks that make them almost infinitely re-usable and very easy to fill. Filling bags with nutrients would be a pain in the ass but it wouldn't have to be something you'd do very often.

If you have a friend who is a nurse ask her for some throw away bottles or just go down to the local hospital, walk into the pharmacy tell them you want to build a unique aquarium and ask for any empty used 1 liter or larger empty old glass IV bottles. You'll still have to buy the tubing with cassette unique to your pump you do not want those used!

As for precipitation obviously you run single lines so three controllers the nutrients then mix in the tank. You set your pumps on timers and have the Micro pump go off first then the grow and bloom pumps. Then have a pump in your tank just for mixing although aggressive air bubbling would take care of that for you too. Let me know if you actually do this it would be interesting.

Oh yes and test any putative designs with water before using your nutes.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
Let me know if you actually do this it would be interesting.

Oh yes and test any putative designs with water before using your nutes.
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Oh i'm doing it alright,.. and that's exactly what i started playing with, water, and an old milk jug, i'm keeping it stupid cheap, lol. Found out something interesting. I mounted a cheap dripper LIKE THIS off a milk jug cap, a few inches with some 1/4 line, let it drip/fill a small glass, and when the water got to the level of the dripper tip, it stopped dripping instantly. Even with a whole gallon in the jug still suspended above it. So i'm thinking, lowering the dripper tip into a plastic beaker like i said, could prove a pretty accurate way to preload just the right amount of each nutrient, that the solenoid would then pull the bottom out from under.

I still have to figure out if i want to refill jugs every few months, or bags. Jugs would require a return line,.. bags would just collapse easy peasy no return line needed.... hmmm,.. might have to run to the store for some cheap wine, ha!

I think this is going to work though...
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
Oh i'm doing it alright,.. and that's exactly what i started playing with, water, and an old milk jug, i'm keeping it stupid cheap, lol. Found out something interesting. I mounted a cheap dripper LIKE THIS off a milk jug cap, a few inches with some 1/4 line, let it drip/fill a small glass, and when the water got to the level of the dripper tip, it stopped dripping instantly. Even with a whole gallon in the jug still suspended above it. So i'm thinking, lowering the dripper tip into a plastic beaker like i said, could prove a pretty accurate way to preload just the right amount of each nutrient, that the solenoid would then pull the bottom out from under.

I still have to figure out if i want to refill jugs every few months, or bags. Jugs would require a return line,.. bags would just collapse easy peasy no return line needed.... hmmm,.. might have to run to the store for some cheap wine, ha!

I think this is going to work though...
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are on your way. Good luck and post pics please.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Oh i will,.. getting some of THESE to drop the drippers from each bottle into, they should allow for some accurate dosing.

I'm either going to use a 5gal bucket, or a cooler of about the same volume as a res,.. and i'm a little stuck on how to get THE SOLENOID to open, only when the water level bottoms out in the res,.. and close, when the res is full. I run an accumulator in my hpa setup so i can let the res almost empty. Most float switches i find don't have like a 12"+ run, all i've seen measure small water level changes, and keep things topped off. I'm going for more of a daily one shot refill then a constant top off, this will keep proper nute dosing levels easier then if i had to figure out hoe to add the correct amounts as water was constantly added to the res.

Any ideas on how to pop a noid at a super low water level, and shut it at a high level?
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
I had another question, how are you going to mix the nutes properly? I don't know about your specific nutes but mine say to add A, wait, then add B, wait, then add additives. It sounds like you are using a 2 part base and some micro nutes and I don't know if anything bad will happen if the A and B come into contact with each other. Mixing my A and B directly together will trigger a chemical reaction and cause sediment to form. I am not sure if yours is the same, just thought I would give you a heads up.

Also, what is going to agitate the nutes in the res to stir them? Airstone?
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Hmmm,... You're right about the nutes. It does say they should be added separately. Well, specifically it says:

"Always add FloraMicro to fresh water first and stir well, then add FloraGro and/or FloraBloom. Never combine FloraMicro with FloraGro or FloraBloom in undiluted form; doing so may cause nutrient lockout making some minerals unavailable."

That's funny, I've always just dumped a half cup at a time into my two 40+ gal reservoirs, somewhere in the middle of there filling, the filling of the last 20+ gallons does the stirring for me, and i don't think i'm having a problem, plants look good. But it might be an issue in a smaller res like i'm trying to go to. I guess i will have to use 3 noids to keep the nutes from ever touching, and I'm wondering if just having the fill tubes far apart from one another down at the bottom of the res, so nutes enter the res in different areas, into swirling water as it fills, think that'll be enough to keep them apart? Doesn't really say how long they need to be, or how diluted. hmm..

I found this,.. and i'm thinking it might be the answer to my refill only when empty issues. Say's its meant for water, NOT corrosive stuff, and i know the nutes would be, but if i hook the leads to some stainless steal bolts, that then come in contact with the water, it shouldn't corrode i'm thinking.

As for agitation, i plan for this to be refilled once a day, so not much if any will be needed, and i want the res to have 2 gallons left in it when the nutes drop and the noid open to fill it. Hopefully the 2-3 gallons added, at 60psi mind you, should do the stirring and keep the nutes from coming in too concentrated of contact with one another.

To help get air back in the jugs, without messing with an air return like, i'm going to treat the 1 gallon jugs just like water bottles atop a water cooler, going to mount cups to hold the cap-less jugs, with a quick connect fitting mounted into the bottom of the cup. From there to the dripper in the beaker, and so on.. i can see it in my mind, almost :)
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
That sensor device looks pretty cool, I hope it works as described. I think the 60 PSI of water pressure should be enough to mix the nutes and if you haven't ever had any issues with combining your nutes at the same time you may be ok with adding them all at the same time.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Ya its got that one bad review but, maybe he didn't use it right, or got a dud. I can't find anything else that'll let me adjust the kick on/kick off water level, like that device. Also, my whole system runs off a 12v battery as is, so i'm trying to keep everything 12v from here on out. Well, everything except the lights :P
 
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berkman858

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
Ya its got that one bad review but, maybe he didn't use it right, or got a dud. I can't find anything else that'll let me adjust the kick on/kick off water level, like that device. Also, my whole system runs off a 12v battery as is, so i'm trying to keep everything 12v from here on out. Well, everything except the lights :P
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Just curious as to why you need this system. Are you setting up a shed in the mountains that is a week's hike from civilization?
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Yeah i'm gonna try to keep this cheap, because honestly, its a stupid simple concept IMO. Just pour this much, in there, when it's low, done! It requires at least a sub $100 DIY, IMO. Never have to fill a res again, just unscrew caps, and drop in jugs like you're filling the water cooler at work, you big dummy, lol

Why am i doing it?... well, i love to automate things and then have nothing to do,.. but find more things to automate, lol.. I really didn't think it was going to turn into a DIY at first, i thought someone might be able to point me into an affordable direction, but when you don't even see prices on there websites, just 'contact us', ha.. i'm guessing there no where near $100. I also wasn't sure it'd be doable in an accurate enough sense, but after seeing the meniscus form to the tip of the dripper, and all water flow cease, i was like 'well shit, that's half the battle won right there stoner, figure the rest out now'!

Oh and also, you never know,.. someday i might take the whole system outside for a walk, lol
but no, at the time its just my legal home grow, that i would love to see in my a greenhouse someday, doing i all on a 12v battery, that's charged by the light of a south facing window keeps the power bill low too

:bigjoint:
 
MYWhat?

MYWhat?

Active Member
This wouldn't be quite DiY but if you got 3 (inline liquid fertilizers)disposers it would make changing your mix a lot easier.
http://www.qcsupply.com/ez-flo-automatic-fertilizer.html?utm_source=amazon&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=productfeeds

This is just one example of the kinds of liquid fertilizer dispensers that are available. They normally are hooked into sprinkler system for lawns or flower gardens.

You could even time the feeding with one of these. (No Resiviour required)
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=water+timer&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=53316829905627946&sa=X&ei=CWScT9XhPIfZgAfMg82jDw&ved=0CEQQ8wIwAA

Or just google "fertilizer injectors" or "liquid fertilizer dispensers". (there are cheaper models then the 3/4 gal one I linked to) There are a bunch of different styles and they work great. (know guys that have used them for years)
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
That might work for folks outdoors maybe, this is an indoor grow though , and no nutes in a jug mid line would be the right amount by the time it got misted on the roots, which is how my HPA setup runs. My acc sucks from my res, its gotta just be a refill of a res, and since it's going to be automated by the time i'm done, i figured might as well keep it small and reclaim some of the space my 44gal res is taking up, it'd be cool to see it refill everyday for a few months, to know it'll do it right when i go on vaca :)
 
ECHydroceuticals

ECHydroceuticals

Member
Finding an affordable...and accurate...solenoid will be difficult...I've thought about setting up something similar, but ultimately decided against it...too much automation can be a bad thing IMO...time in the garden is time well spent.
 
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