Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

Not floro night shots...CW globe night shots


AT600


1000w HPS

them are the pics i was waiting on,and looking damn good.
i do like what the At600 is doing.

Hey GG, lookin great on either side. Something tells me you could grow a muthafucka with a candle but on a serious note what about smell? I've got a biased view of indoor growing since I've never used HPS and I'm kinda under the impression LED grows tend to be less stinky. Maybe it's because of the R+B predominant spectrum that are usually used or maybe it's just the heat from the HPS cooking some trichs but have you noticed any difference in the odor level or for that matter any difference in the smell between the two? Thanks bro and Keep it Safe!

Very nice, some differences in plant structure but in the end the yield from either side is looking much the same, which in my books gives the win to the LED's... But as they say, it's not over till it's over.

The hps is bigger. That is what it is. And isn't going to change.
The density is nothing noticeable. Both sides are rocks and could knock a bitch out if pimp slapped with a cola. So will the LED over come??? We will wait and see. I don't want to make excuses but with all things considered it's a close fight.
The smells are the same...at least not noticeable either. I will get it tested and that includes terpenes, so that will be the real tell about smells.

Both sides are just going along great. Sure there were a few bumps that will get evened out next time...but it really has been a great run on both side. One for the led record books IMO. And definitely a top end hps run.

Good ish brother genes.. It has really been great from start to finish boss..

I just dig the fact you had the balls to do the grow. You are one of only 3 led guys that I know on this forum that will actually throw down and I can respect that. I think led growing would benefit tremendously if people would take your lead. Watt for watt led is a better choice, led will yield more and the buds will be frostier. That is what led guys should be saying, this 40% less light equivalent bs that both growers/manufacturers use hurts led more than it helps. I swear, if I hear one more person say they yield more with a 160 led than a 600 hid im gonna lose it. like I said previously, if Apache comes out with a 750-800 it would be the best single light offered (led or hid) by any manufacturer for the next several years. What the fuck ever happened to the A51 owner who wanted to do a unbiased head to head? They snap back to reality and have a change of heart or what?

they do look good gg. very close in size

I saw someone mentioned about diode degradation over time. This is a deal breaker for me. Especially given the pricetag. If the panel loses even 15% over the course of two years this is no good. The biggest problem I see with this tech is the inability to replace burnt or degraded diodes.

that is probably the biggest benefit to hid is you get full power every year or so.

other than that these things look promising.

joe macclennan said:

they do look good gg. very close in size

I saw someone mentioned about diode degradation over time. This is a deal breaker for me. Especially given the pricetag. If the panel loses even 15% over the course of two years this is no good. The biggest problem I see with this tech is the inability to replace burnt or degraded diodes.

that is probably the biggest benefit to hid is you get full power every year or so.

other than that these things look promising.

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Area 51 will actually sell you upgrade LED parts at wholesale prices for his panels. Not sure if any other companies will also do this.

good to know captain....thank you

Joe nothing is written in stone about LED life. You run your lights at their near max, you're going to run up against degradation. Especially on the budget end. Run your diodes sanely, especially quality ones, or buy something bigger than you need and dim them, you could very well go over the mythical 50,000 mark. And certainly don't beleive those who provide no links to their spouttings about LED life. Good Luck.

Lumen maintenance is great with quality chips. And even better with great cooling...and even better when ran at their most efficient...all of which the apache has.

I saw petflora talking about some article saying they degrade fast...but have never seen the article and no one has posted it on here anywhere. Also my previous knowledge says the opposite. Do you know where this info is? I also remember someone saying because normally things are L70 led probably are...No, they are rated in L80. The link below shows that and the output% over that time.

Here is the way I know it about their life. Read it all, but Page20 is the graph you want most. They are advertised at 50,000hr...they will go much longer if you run them right...
http://www.aqualumaled.com/pdf/LED Behavior.pdf

Honestly a diode going out in a quality panel(only about 3 of them) is the least of things to happen...and I can say for my apache's(at120) at 4yrs are still running strong as ever.

If you own an apache and want to upgrade, they will take care of you. But next model/release don't expect the same design and look. The basic design of the at120, at200 has been in production since 2010. Then the at600 was an evolution of them.
Progress/innovation/making the best doesn't stop and needs to change with knowledge and tech. It is time to finally change the whole design. Things are in the works and have been. Don't expect anything soon. But shit is always in the works. And upgradeability is already in the plans.


I wrote this directly after you asked then forgot about it for a little(powwow session)...a lot has been posted since I started.

id like to know what's going on the A51 vs Apache as well. To me that's more interesting than the HPS comparison btw GG what is the coverage on the 120's by Apache? I cant wait for Apache to come out with new panels, along with better LED's in general!

I talked to jeff about it when I was ordering my panels, he is a very busy dude right now from the sounds of it but there will be something going on. I am as excited as the rest of ya, I am really happy with my RW-75s so far and he said they are working on bigger panels to the wattage that jbone was talking about if it makes sense to (coverage, and cost to build). Not trying to thread jack gg just thought I would say what I know on the matter, that blue dream is looking very dreamy if I do say so myself

earthling420 said:

id like to know what's going on the A51 vs Apache as well. To me that's more interesting than the HPS comparison btw GG what is the coverage on the 120's by Apache? I cant wait for Apache to come out with new panels, along with better LED's in general!

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A51 isnt going to go head to head with Apache, thats why I dig this thread, gg talked shit and is backing it up and Apache supports him, eh talked shit and went away, that should tell ya somethin.

Jbone77 said:

A51 isnt going to go head to head with Apache, thats why I dig this thread, gg talked shit and is backing it up and Apache supports him, eh talked shit and went away, that should tell ya somethin.

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I was the one that was supposed to do the a51 vs apache. Eh never got back to me I've pm'd him and emailed him about it. Still haven't heard back. That's doesn't mean a51 is no good. They use higher bin leds than apache. I'm going to buy 3 more panels. Then do a bunch of DIY cobs and maybe tpanels.. I'm not knocking apache. Its a great light. Its easier and cheaper to buy one panel at a time. If apache dropped the at200 for $500 then it would be a different story maybe. Its easier to drop $500 at a time than $2000. Maybe when I get my big residual check next Dec I'll grab an at600 or what ever is new at the time. My check is for a hip hop group album I mixed and mastered. They are out of Canada. They are huge there I guess.

What apache model would b good to compare with ny sg190?

GG u think apache would b down for a sponsership grow off ? Lol

hyroot said:

I was the one that was supposed to do the a51 vs apache. Eh never got back to me I've pm'd him and emailed him about it. Still haven't heard back. That's doesn't mean a51 is no good. They use higher bin leds than apache. I'm going to buy one more panel then do a bunch of DIY cobs and maybe tpanels..

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I never said A51 was no good, I said they arent going to go head to head with Apache. GG talked shit and did the grow with the support of Apache, that to me was fuckin amazing, EH came on for a quick minute, talked shit and faded away, he has more to gain from a head to head than anybody, his cost wouldnt be shit so theres obviously another reason he didnt do it. I am truly amazed that Apache gave GG there blessing to do this grow. That my friend, is a ballsy company.

natro.hydro said:

I talked to jeff about it when I was ordering my panels, he is a very busy dude right now from the sounds of it but there will be something going on. I am as excited as the rest of ya, I am really happy with my RW-75s so far and he said they are working on bigger panels to the wattage that jbone was talking about if it makes sense to (coverage, and cost to build). Not trying to thread jack gg just thought I would say what I know on the matter, that blue dream is looking very dreamy if I do say so myself

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any thread with GG will verge into led discussion lol thinking of gettin me some rw75's.

Jbone77 said:

A51 isnt going to go head to head with Apache, thats why I dig this thread, gg talked shit and is backing it up and Apache supports him, eh talked shit and went away, that should tell ya somethin.

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well he could have his own reasons. Never know. AAlthough it is weird he'd choose not to. Then again, this guy also posted his balance and acted like a fool...

GG i thought you already owned the light?

Foreverflyhigh, apache doesn't need to sponsor any grows, so no. GG is my source for this lol

earthling420 said:

id like to know what's going on the A51 vs Apache as well. To me that's more interesting than the HPS comparison btw GG what is the coverage on the 120's by Apache? I cant wait for Apache to come out with new panels, along with better LED's in general!

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The at120 is finally phasing out. There are only a few left I believe.
But if you are going to flower I would go at200.

natro.hydro said:

I talked to jeff about it when I was ordering my panels, he is a very busy dude right now from the sounds of it but there will be something going on. I am as excited as the rest of ya, I am really happy with my RW-75s so far and he said they are working on bigger panels to the wattage that jbone was talking about if it makes sense to (coverage, and cost to build). Not trying to thread jack gg just thought I would say what I know on the matter, that blue dream is looking very dreamy if I do say so myself

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Thanks man

As for EH/Jeff...he can use MY code to get the best deal on an AT and do the test in his own circumstances anytime...he can also call Apache and do the collaboration test where both parties are equally invested/represented/UNBIAS TESTED in all ways anytime...my suggestion would be approaching a dispensary, but what would I know. Apache isn't going to choose anyone on a forum most likely if they were to get involved. They would want someone basically virgin to any led's and just to put them in and grow.
.

hyroot said:

I was the one that was supposed to do the a51 vs apache. Eh never got back to me I've pm'd him and emailed him about it. Still haven't heard back. That's doesn't mean a51 is no good. They use higher bin leds than apache. I'm going to buy 3 more panels. Then do a bunch of DIY cobs and maybe tpanels.. I'm not knocking apache. Its a great light. Its easier and cheaper to buy one panel at a time. If apache dropped the at200 for $500 then it would be a different story maybe. Its easier to drop $500 at a time than $2000. Maybe when I get my big residual check next Dec I'll grab an at600 or what ever is new at the time. My check is for a hip hop group album I mixed and mastered. They are out of Canada. They are huge there I guess.

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No one knows the bins on AT so that claim is as valid as it is false. I cannot do anymore than I have to get that info out of them but there are certain things that companies just choose to keep "proprietary"..haha.
I would put an AT up against any LED on the market with total confidence.

foreverflyhi said:

What apache model would b good to compare with ny sg190?
GG u think apache would b down for a sponsership grow off ? Lol

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AT200. All jeff has to do is contact them and ask...he has yet to make any move towards such a collaboration grow off like he boasted...you would think with $108,000 he could get it done with the flick of the chase black, then earn some mile too...haha.

Jbone77 said:

I never said A51 was no good, I said they arent going to go head to head with Apache. GG talked shit and did the grow with the support of Apache, that to me was fuckin amazing, EH came on for a quick minute, talked shit and faded away, he has more to gain from a head to head than anybody, his cost wouldnt be shit so theres obviously another reason he didnt do it. I am truly amazed that Apache gave GG there blessing to do this grow. That my friend, is a ballsy company.

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I was going to go all led and induction in the room, but they threw out the idea in the first place. When I told him I got it all ready to go and asked if he was sure... and he said "Fuck ya...someone has to do it and we are the only ones that can". And they wanted to do they exact setup that an un-named for now, dispensary in CO is/was using(Galaxy ballast, raptor, hortilux). I upgraded that further with the solis tek, the highest output ballast. They were onboard with it all. They also have some confidence in that it will be closer than it appears. I just need it to fast forward now.



I WOULD LIKE TO STOP THE APACHE vs A51 TALK NOW IF THAT IS OK...He is more than capable of getting it going. It honestly shouldn't take too much from his end...the grower has all the work. I know he watches this...so by all means get it done...but until someone gets a thread/link/photos/video or anything up, I would rather just focus on the project at hand... that has more merit and usefulness truthfully.