A REAL commitment to change the 25-mile rule

personified said:

System is getting started. [Thursday, July 19, 2012 4:49:58 PM]

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Operator 25 4:50:22 PM

Hello =====, my name is Operator 25, Please wait...I'm reviewing your question and will respond shortly. You can also find answers to some of the most frequently asked questions by visiting our FAQs page.

Anyone can apply for a medical marijuana card and request to cultivate. You will need to go to our website and you will see all the required documentation needed to obtain the card. http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/patients/adult.htm

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Not sure how you worded your question as it didn't show up in your post but if you live on the reservation you don't live in the state of arizona so I don't believe they would issue you a card. Even if they did it would be worthless on the reservation which brings me back to my original point. NFC incorrectly asserted that you could circumvent the "25 mile rule" by living on the reservation which you can't as possessing, consuming and cultivating medical cannabis on indian land is illegal regardless of wether or not you have a card.

It is admirable the NFC chose to offer up some matching funds however reading between the lines I think NFC knows that it is highly unlikely that a citizen initiative like the one he suggest could ever be successful. I think his money would be better spent on a drive to completely decriminalize mmj in the state. That would be were I would think we could be successful in the long run. Then the 25 mile rule wouldn't be as big of an issue. In reality the growers on here will continue to grow even after the 25 mile rule goes into effect and I would bet that if you stay low key you won't have a problem.

I asked if you live on the reservation can you have a card. So the answer was yes for the question at hand not only yes but you can even grow according to the state law. I get tired of bar stool lawyers intepreting the law forum experts pontificating their SUPPOSITORY of knowledge.

Boys and girls good luck with the 25 mile rule and a new voters initiative remeber 4.421. The 25 mile was the bone so we do not end up like Cali. If you live in Phoenix also do not forget Tucson carried the majority of votes. If it were to pass PHX would have to fall in line unlike last election.

Also you all seem to forget that the county and city regulations can still thwart you. For instance you can only grow outside behind a ten foot fence in a residential zoning. Guess what it just so happens you can not have a ten foot fence in a residential area. Hmmm imagine that?

Yes, I see some here that are building outside grows but they are not legal in your back yard unless it is secured and can not be visable. Well if the Police fly over it is visable and if your in a residential area your wrong.

personified said:

I asked if you live on the reservation can you have a card. So the answer was yes for the question at hand not only yes but you can even grow according to the state law. I get tired of bar stool lawyers intepreting the law forum experts pontificating their SUPPOSITORY of knowledge.

Boys and girls good luck with the 25 mile rule and a new voters initiative remeber 4.421. The 25 mile was the bone so we do not end up like Cali. If you live in Phoenix also do not forget Tucson carried the majority of votes. If it were to pass PHX would have to fall in line unlike last election.

Also you all seem to forget that the county and city regulations can still thwart you. For instance you can only grow outside behind a ten foot fence in a residential zoning. Guess what it just so happens you can not have a ten foot fence in a residential area. Hmmm imagine that?

Yes, I see some here that are building outside grows but they are not legal in your back yard unless it is secured and can not be visable. Well if the Police fly over it is visable and if your in a residential area your wrong.

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A greenhouse works within the laws, in any part of the state. Locked enclosed facility....They come in all sizes and shapes. You can grow in a Rubbermaid storage shed if you really want. Worried about someone seeing into your greenhouse, respectively use shade cloth to cover the four side walls. Law says people/public cannot directly see your plants, so be smart and respectful when taking this into consideration.... The only time a fence is needed is if you are blatantly growing on an empty lot/land without the use of a physical structure. Flying over is a weak argument because the public does not inherently fly, and somebody could be growing indoors in a sun room, majority glass, and somebody could fly over and see their plants too. Some sun rooms/ passive greenhouses are much larger than some polycarbonate greenhouses. I'm not your typical forum lawyer either I have spent good money reviewing the laws back and forth, countless times with a legal council. If one is building a greenhouse fron vinyl sheeting, I would be skeptical about safety but technically four sides, a roof and a lock is an enclosed/locked facilty. Multiple layers of vinyl may suffice as a visual barrier but that is the choice of the patient, I recommend panda or shade cloth. I would be weary about building a permanent strucure with walls over 10 ft because you because you may need a permit to do so from your local municipality.

Personified,

new compassion first said:

I've said repeatedly that I would support changes in the 25-mile rule. Now I'm putting my money behind my words. I'm committing $10,000 to changing the law through a citizen's initiative. There are two strings attached:

1. Polls have to show a 40% approval for the specific changes that would be in the new initiative
2. The money will be used as a match with other funds committed to pass the new law.

Like many people interested in running dispensaries, I am a cultivator first and a businessperson second. I've enjoyed the benefits of personal growing and believe that individuals should have the right to grow a natural plant in the privacy of their own home. Got that, but that's not the law and personally I think there are a lot of immature people who wish the world was different, and howl at the moon, instead of dealing with what really exists. Sorry, but that's what i see.

There is a separate question underlying a lot of the hostility towards dispensaries here - not from patients but from caregivers who see this as a source of income. Much like Colorado, I think there is a possibility of creating a role for caregivers in the production of marijuana for dispensaries and directly to patients. Get it in the new law, stop complaining about the existing law.

The Arizona law is very anticompetitive by restricting the business to dispensaries. I have never said otherwise. What i have said repeatedly, and what the winers don't want to admit, is that the law never would have passed in this conservative state without the 25-mile rule as that attracted both money and votes. I was not involved in the writing of Prop 203, and would not have supported the 25-mile rule, but in retrospect it was the difference maker in a 5,000 margin election.

Another thread mentioned the possibility of the legislature making positive changes in the 25-mile rule. First, are you kidding? These are the people who banned medical marijuana from college campuses. Second, it takes a 3/4 vote of both houses - not going to happen.

So, lovers and haters, let's get together and change the 25-mile rule. Would love to work with you on how to create a majority of arizona voters to support changes in the 25-mile rule. you don't have a majority now and you need it - i can help you get there.

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Mr. Gaines,

Count me in!! I am willing to hit the concrete to collect signatures and I am sure I can find quite a few other folks to help!!!


I have always been the one to say litigation through the Superior Court of Maricopa... Declaratory Judgment and an Injunction against the State and AzDHS... Why not this route? Doesn't hurt! Medical marijuana is one thing but expecting the Arizona people to vote on this issue would be another flat tire. All I see is DELAY. Lets assume it gets on the ballot.. It then has to be voted on. That is where I see delay! Getting signatures will be an easy task! Getting the initiative passed is a whole different story!

The 23-page Complaint for Special Action went through... RIGHT... There were amendments that favored you heavily! Is this not true?
http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/documents/resources/Compassion-First-Ruling.pdf

I hope You are NOT trying to fool the masses to follow your intentions! What else do you want added to this Act? I and many others will NOT follow you if you are just another BULLSHITTER... That simple Mate! Are you for the Patients of Az?


Respectfully,
DC

P.S.
And don't get caught on Indian Land!! They do NOT recognize the AzMMA... Indian Sovereign nation!

personified said:

Yes, I see some here that are building outside grows but they are not legal in your back yard unless it is secured and can not be visable. Well if the Police fly over it is visable and if your in a residential area your wrong.

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That's like saying we're all breaking the law because MMJ is not recognized on a federal level

If we aren't supposed to grow our outdoor in the backyard, where else do we have to grow it.......i mean other than outdoors....? who doesn't "live" in a residential area?

I have a block fence on all sides with 2 dogs in the yard all the time, and my green house is fully covered with cloth and has a lock. It is not visible unless someone jumps on my fence and pulls there head up.......and I can't control what someone might or might not do. it is lockable and secure, I met their stipulations.

Could it be more secure? sure, anyone with a box cutter could get right in there.......but i mean my house is secure too...until someone kicks my door down or breaks a window. what am I gonna do? board up my windows and hire bouncers for the front door? and as far as the helicopter, of course they can see it, they have a birdseye view. to hide it from an overhead view would likely block any meaningful sunshine and defeat the purpose.

Closed and Locked!!

Directly from AZDHS:

"CU05: Can cultivation be done in a greenhouse?
Cultivation must be done in "an enclosed, locked facility." A greenhouse is included in
the definition of "enclosed, locked facility". However, to meet the definition of "enclosed,
locked facility," the greenhouse must be equipped with "locks or other security devices
that permit access only by a cardholder" or surrounded by "solid 10-foot walls
constructed of metal, concrete, or stone that prevent any viewing of the marijuana
plants, with a one-inch thick metal gate"

achiever420 said:

Personified,

I'm not a barstool lawyer but I know the law. An AZDHS MMJ card is not valid on Indian Land. See link below with statement from the Salt River Police Department.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/01/medical-marijuana_law_doesnt_a.php


I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I hope you never run into any Indian Police with medicine on you.

Edit: Here is some more info.

http://www.azdhs.gov/diro/tribal/pdf/Medical-Marijuana-Consultation-Report_040711.pdf
​

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Your pontificating your suppository of knowledge again.

No dude we agree. However I can see from numerous posts you have made you tend to talk more than you read. Go back now and read what I have said previously. Notice specifically how I have phrased every sentence. Notice I do not spew what I think I know. I instead investigate and produce verified information.

I have read the law and every version there after created by Humble. If you want to debate with me then please do not refer to blogs as a reference. To many other people like you that think they know what they are saying to be true.

First thing you need to learn about law is phrasing is everything. Now again look at my phrasing. Then look at what your asking and the answer your getting. Then look at the way you should ask your question or make your statment.

Vauge comments with out validation is your biggest problem and trying to impress everyone with your opinion is the second!

This thread was supposed to help unite us all to help fight for the same cause. How can we as a community expect to get anything done if all we do is argue about some stupid hypothetical situation. And who cares who is right on this issue. As we all know don get ur legal advice from here. Let's get back to changing this law so we don't even have to ask a shiy question like should i grow on the Res. There are two yeas til the next election and what needs to be done between then and now to achieve our goal? Who is willing to help come together and work on on this? Will the 25 mile rule affect you?

Redbird1223 said:

That's like saying we're all breaking the law because MMJ is not recognized on a federal level

If we aren't supposed to grow our outdoor in the backyard, where else do we have to grow it.......i mean other than outdoors....? who doesn't "live" in a residential area?

I have a block fence on all sides with 2 dogs in the yard all the time, and my green house is fully covered with cloth and has a lock. It is not visible unless someone jumps on my fence and pulls there head up.......and I can't control what someone might or might not do. it is lockable and secure, I met their stipulations.

Could it be more secure? sure, anyone with a box cutter could get right in there.......but i mean my house is secure too...until someone kicks my door down or breaks a window. what am I gonna do? board up my windows and hire bouncers for the front door? and as far as the helicopter, of course they can see it, they have a birdseye view. to hide it from an overhead view would likely block any meaningful sunshine and defeat the purpose.

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They also said we can not grow in shipping containers I think that would be one very secure box. I do not agree with it I just know how it can be enforced. Understand this is not for you it is for them.

If there is a two story house they could see, if there are children they can climb the fence and see, a cop or a civilian can fly over and see. all they have to say is they smelled it and look over and they can see. I do not care one way or the other and I am sure it could be a problem with one cop and not another.

Just realize boys and girls that local government can change the zoning laws rather easy and with out your input to control the situation. Here are two regulations I could think of that would slow folks down.

1) You have to be within 25ft and have access to a fire hydrant for fire saftey to grow marijuana.

2) No city or county fire equipment or infrastructure shall be used against federal law with out special permission

On the surface the seem innocent except when you try to get authorization to grow. Then you realize while you may be within 25ft of a hydrant however your not allowed to use it because it is against federal law.

personified said:

Your pontificating your suppository of knowledge again.

No dude we agree. However I can see from numerous posts you have made you tend to talk more than you read. Go back now and read what I have said previously. Notice specifically how I have phrased every sentence. Notice I do not spew what I think I know. I instead investigate and produce verified information.

I have read the law and every version there after created by Humble. If you want to debate with me then please do not refer to blogs as a reference. To many other people like you that think they know what they are saying to be true.

First thing you need to learn about law is phrasing is everything. Now again look at my phrasing. Then look at what your asking and the answer your getting. Then look at the way you should ask your question or make your statment.

Vauge comments with out validation is your biggest problem and trying to impress everyone with your opinion is the second!

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I'm not trying to impress anyone. What motivation do I have to do that? I'm not claiming to grow dank nugs. I'm just saying that it is illegal to posses and grow MMJ on Indian Land. Telling people it isn't is irresponsible. Although you could argue that anyone who relies on advice from a forum such as this is ignorant. The first link included a statement directly from the Salt River Indian Police Department. The second link is from AZDHS. I consider both of them to be legitimate sources. I'm not sure were we got off track on our agreement, at any rate I hope no one ever has any issues with any form of LEO. I'll let that be my last statement.

irieie said:

This thread was supposed to help unite us all to help fight for the same cause. How can we as a community expect to get anything done if all we do is argue about some stupid hypothetical situation. And who cares who is right on this issue. As we all know don get ur legal advice from here. Let's get back to changing this law so we don't even have to ask a shiy question like should i grow on the Res. There are two yeas til the next election and what needs to be done between then and now to achieve our goal? Who is willing to help come together and work on on this? Will the 25 mile rule affect you?

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Keep the vibes coming irie...
Lets try to stay on task forum goers, amending the 25 mile rule is important for the progression of the program.
If you want to start another thread about the rez laws feel free.

Irieie for President!

BeaverHuntr said:

Irieie for President!

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Agreed!

The "25 Mile Rule" is the issue we shall focus on not foolish arguments!

this norml piece is the most comprehensive and realistic with legal documentation to back up everything said:
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_What_the_End_of_Prohibition_May_Look_Like.pdf

Its a long eye-opening read concerning the states rights vs. the federal laws

Its not about any one person, club, collective, dispensary, medical, or recreational. Let's be the change we want to see. Why do we always get on this forum and argue with each other about stupid shit, the laws, grow techniques. Why are we in competition we should be all working towards an amma which affords all patients the same basic right to cultivate or chose for themselves. In case you have not noticed the program is trying to he eroded around us. The opposition is organized, united and in control. We are all in the same boat and its time we start paddling together before this river spits us all out.

hydrogregg said:

this norml piece is the most comprehensive and realistic with legal documentation to back up everything said:
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_What_the_End_of_Prohibition_May_Look_Like.pdf

Its a long eye-opening read concerning the states rights vs. the federal laws

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The citizens are not protected by laws passed in the States which are against federal laws but the politicians who pass such laws enjoy immunities!!

Remember Brewer's DWI back in the 80's! Claim immunity or not - they have it!!

irieie said:

Its not about any one person, club, collective, dispensary, medical, or recreational. Let's be the change we want to see. Why do we always get on this forum and argue with each other about stupid shit, the laws, grow techniques. Why are we in competition we should be all working towards an amma which affords all patients the same basic right to cultivate or chose for themselves. In case you have not noticed the program is trying to he eroded around us. The opposition is organized, united and in control. We are all in the same boat and its time we start paddling together before this river spits us all out.

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110% agree!

It is correct that if you live in the city and have patients OUTSIDE of a 25 mile zone you can still grow for them inside the city. HOWEVER, there are going to be very few patients in places that are 25 miles from a Dispensary. I happen to have gotten 5 myself so I should be gold.

If you guys need patients contact these guys, they set me up 100% with all my patients and they have a ton of Caregivers all cultivating for those patients. The only caveat is the patients and you sign onto their collective. The upside is that when and if I ever don't have meds for my patients I can get meds donated from another patient through his Caregiver. Works great. Here is their FB https://www.facebook.com/ArizonaMMJ

Lucius Vorenus said:

It is correct that if you live in the city and have patients OUTSIDE of a 25 mile zone you can still grow for them inside the city. HOWEVER, there are going to be very few patients in places that are 25 miles from a Dispensary. I happen to have gotten 5 myself so I should be gold.

If you guys need patients contact these guys, they set me up 100% with all my patients and they have a ton of Caregivers all cultivating for those patients. The only caveat is the patients and you sign onto their collective. The upside is that when and if I ever don't have meds for my patients I can get meds donated from another patient through his Caregiver. Works great. Here is their FB https://www.facebook.com/ArizonaMMJ

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If the only mean of communication is through Facebook!! Good luck mate!

At least 1 time per week you hear about "facebookers" who get arrested for non sense they post on Facebook!

I recommend deleting your facebook if it has ANY thing to do with Cannabis!! Just my opinion!!

Back to the issue!!!