A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

So I stumbled across this site after a recent layoff, I had wanted to try and pick up a few tips on drying and curing and couldnt help feeling like I have hit the jackpot when I found it. Thanks for the great tips on harvesting. So I have decided to return the favor and lend my 15+ years of experience as a commercial/industrial electrician to try and answer any questions you have regarding wiring issues, lighting placement/intensity/spectrum, control wiring, power factors, heat dissapation, techniques and anything you can come up with dealing with ohms amps or voltage. I also retain an expert knowledge of electronic security/intrusion protection for those that wish to protect their babies from prying eyes and fingers So give me a good question, im really bored and no one is hiring, and my babies are flowering so ive got nothing to do but sit here and spread the wisdom.... hope to see some good questions, some of the solutions I have seen regarding electrical problems on here have been ingenious and creative, however the majority i have seen leave me with a wierd feeling in my stomach, like the type you get when you know something is going to go wrong and bad things happen but theres nothing you can do about it... And I hate that! So give me your best shot, and I will do my best to answer your questions with solutions that are not only practical and easy, but SAFE!

ok well I keep blowing the fuse in my 1950's home. It's a thirty amp fuse. How can i isolate an outlet to only run my growing gear? It is a pain to have to replace the fuse. it's outside.

Say you have 350 service coming in, and only 270 being used. Can I safely add a couple 20's to bring the total up to 310?

When running a 220 line you take the two 110 hots and use a neutral. If you box does not have a nuetral, can you run it straight to the ground bar in your box?

StreetRider said:

When running a 220 line you take the two 110 hots and use a neutral. If you box does not have a nuetral, can you run it straight to the ground bar in your box?

Click to expand...

No. Not ever. That ground wire is there for a reason, to provide a safe, controlled path for fault current. Bonding a neutral load to a grounding circuit is creating a potiental electrical hazard to anything you have plugged in or uses electricity in your entire house.

On a side note, a true 220 circuit does not require a neutral conductor to begin with. Im not going to go into the technical details of phase voltage here, but its pretty simple- 220= no neutral. Some modern appliances require a neutral conductor to run the controls.. this is achieved by tapping off of one leg of the 220 circuit. the neutral then provides the path to ground for 120v control circuit. this is why they now manufacture 4 wire appliance receptacles and cords, and in most areas off the usa are now required by code. You can still find the old 3 wire type tho.

Switching a 110v receptacle to 220v is relatively simple, however I would warn against amateurs attempting this because to pull it off correctly you need to make sure it is already a dedicated receptacle, or is the 'homerun' ( the first in a series of parallel connected receptacles) or else your are asking for all kinds of problems, because in doing this you are going to lose your neutral conducter for the 120v circuit, and if you make the mistake of applying 220v to 120v devices already plugged in to the circuit your working.. bad things happen... very bad things. (say goodbye to that plasma, lcd, pc, a dozen cfl's whatever you have plugged in)

Green Cross said:

Say you have 350 service coming in, and only 270 being used. Can I safely add a couple 20's to bring the total up to 310?

Click to expand...

errr 350 amp service? thats kind of an odd number I would say. And if your really using 270a im impressed at your ability to pay the light bill but to answer the question it depends heavily on the type of power you need for the equipment your adding. Often you will find that the power requirements are far less than the breaker sizes, and you dont really need to add 3 breakers if your only adding say, a few lights and a couple of plugs. on lights and plugs a safe rule of thumb is not too exceed 1800w per 20amp circuit.
an easy way to convert amps to watts is this:
Watts = Amps x Volts
1200w = 10amps x 120volts*

*edit-
it helps if you have a voltage meter and know how to take an accurate reading. local variations of voltage that ive seen can range from as low as 107vac to as high as 135vac, and you need to take this into consideration to avoid nuisance tripping if your going to max out your circuits.

oh really??? said:

ok well I keep blowing the fuse in my 1950's home. It's a thirty amp fuse. How can i isolate an outlet to only run my growing gear? It is a pain to have to replace the fuse. it's outside.

Click to expand...

What I would be asking here is what is causing the fuse to trip in the first place? is it faulty wiring? are you pulling too much continuous duty power? ( on longer than 8 hours ) is it inrush current? (say, when you plug in a vacuum? ) is your panel going bad? fuses trip by thermal overload, when they get hotter than the determined temp, they burn, just like a 'fusable link' in your car stereo system. nuisance tripping is a real pain in the ass, and often requires a few hours of troubleshooting by eliminating possibilities that can cause your fuse to blow. You can try to change the actual fuse type to something a little more suited for your needs. However I would need a little more info (what fuse type is currently in the panel, what type of equipment is connected to the 30amp circuit) to give you a proper answer.

*edit 3000w is about the most you can expect to pull out of a 30amp fuse before it wants to get hot and trip

I want to gorw in a closet but I don't have an outlet there, but there is one on the otherside of the wall where I want to put it. So could I just cut a hole in the wall where it is and install another wall outlet by splicing the ground wire and insalling the outlet on the other side?

molokai said:

I want to gorw in a closet but I don't have an outlet there, but there is one on the otherside of the wall where I want to put it. So could I just cut a hole in the wall where it is and install another wall outlet by splicing the ground wire and insalling the outlet on the other side?

Click to expand...

yes! this is quite a simple operation

what you will need:
tools-
a tape measure
a keyhole/drywall saw
screwdriver
wire strippers/ cutters
stud finder (optional)
plumb level (optional)
material-
an 'old construction' style single gang cut in box (it has ears for easy installation)
a good 15-20amp receptacle (i would go with the 20. there tougher)
2-3 feet 14/2 or 12/2 romex type nm cable
depending on the wiring in your existing outlet you may need 3 red wirenuts
receptacle cover (optional)

all of this can be got at your local hardware store for cheap! (less than 10)

step one- shut the power off to your existing outlet at the breaker box. if your not sure which one, shut it all off. take no chances

step 2 shut the power off!

step 3- make sure its off

step four- are you SURE its off? double check.

step 5- now that you know the power is off, its time to get started. note the exact position of your existing outlet. it helps to use the tape measure to get a measurement off of a common wall to both rooms

step 6- where your going to be adding the new outlet, measure off of the common wall to get an exact idea of where your existing plug is on the other side of the wall. you will need to know this, as your new box will not fit directly behind the old, it has to sit off to one side by about 4 inches to be safe. you also want to be sure that your new outlet is in the same stud cavity as the old. cavities are typically 13.5 inches in width, but can vary so make sure you take time to verify your in the right spot, or else youll end up either hitting a stud when you cut in the box or even worse, ending up in the wrong cavity. then your gonna end up drilling holes to get the wiring in and that is not the purpose here. this is where the stud finder helps

step 7- now that you know where the new box is going to sit, use a level to position it on the wall where its gonna go and use a pencil to trace the outline of the box.

step 8- now your ready to cut. using the drywall saw, you want to cut about 1/8-1/4 of an inch to the OUTSIDE of the line you traced on the wall. start with the horizontal cuts first. this will help you out in case your to close to a stud or the old device or any other surprises inside the wall and will allow you to shift the location left or right as needed.

step 9- yay you have a hole, and a mess! now its time to disassemble your old plug. remove the cover by the single screw in the center. remove the two screws located top and bottom of the plug. stop. is the power off? triple check. pull the old plug gently away from the wall after you triple checked the power being off.leave he wires hooked up.

step 10- this is the pain in the ass part, getting the wire from the old to the new. use the screw driver to remove a knockout in the back of the old box. these are removable tabs in the back of most outlet boxes

step 11- with your 2-3 foot peice of wire, stick it in from the new hole on the other side and do your best to fish it into the old box through the knockout you removed. this always seems to be the funnest part. it helps if you have a person on the other side to pull it up into the box ALOT. you need 12-16 inches of wire in the old box

step 12- take the new box you picked up the local hardware store and remove a knockout in the back. take the end of the wire coming from the old box and get 12-16 inches in it. once you have this done, shove the box and all the slack wire into the hole you cut and turn the two screws to tighten the box down... tadaa!

step 13- strip back the wires in the new box and install the receptacle. the black wire should connect to the gold screw, the white wire to the silver screw, and the green/bare wire to the green screw. if your color blind see the package the plug came in for a detailed diagram. they are usually there. take care to not leave any exposed copper on the hot and neutral, and make sure your connections are almost too tight. loose wires cause fires. remember that.

step 14- screw in the new plug to the box. it helps if you get the top and bottom screws started a few turns, then push the plug up tight against the wall. make sure you dont pinch the wires. then tighten down the top and bottom screws all the way. put a cover on if you decided to buy one. it looks good and there cheap.

step 15- connect the new wiring to the old. is the power off? you better check first. often this is as simple as just connecting the new wires to the screws on the old receptacle. just remember that only one wire per screw, if theres not space you will need to use the wirenuts to tie all the wires together (new and old) and make jumpers (we call em pigtails) to feed the old plug. make sure you connect the hot wires to the hot, the neutrals to the neutral, and the ground to the grounds. if you screw that up you will have a neat little fireworks show when you turn the power back on!

step 16- put the old receptacle back in the wall and put the cover on. almost done

step 17. turn the power back on. if the breaker holds, odds are you did something right. if you happen to have one, use a meter or plug tester to make sure your connections are good. if not a simple lamp is a good tester. if it comes on when you plug it in at both plugs than you did good!

IAm5toned said:

What I would be asking here is what is causing the fuse to trip in the first place? is it faulty wiring? are you pulling too much continuous duty power? ( on longer than 8 hours ) is it inrush current? (say, when you plug in a vacuum? ) is your panel going bad? fuses trip by thermal overload, when they get hotter than the determined temp, they burn, just like a 'fusable link' in your car stereo system. nuisance tripping is a real pain in the ass, and often requires a few hours of troubleshooting by eliminating possibilities that can cause your fuse to blow. You can try to change the actual fuse type to something a little more suited for your needs. However I would need a little more info (what fuse type is currently in the panel, what type of equipment is connected to the 30amp circuit) to give you a proper answer.

*edit 3000w is about the most you can expect to pull out of a 30amp fuse before it wants to get hot and trip

Click to expand...

well The dryer, my computer/stereo, and my grow equipment seems to be connected to the same fuse. When the fuse blows I tried the dryer and it didn't work and my computer didn't work as well as my grow. I know that the dryer pulls about 5000+ watts max so i can assume that running all these items at once can blow the fuse.


Can i replace the 30 amp with a 35amp or higher? I don't want to burn the house down.

Or would you find a different outlet?

I'm running a 400hps, 1 fan, 1 blower, 1 inline fan for a carbon filter and then 2 4ft cfls with a fan as well.

How can i isolate a power source that is just for my grow?

Thanks man!

oh really??? said:

well The dryer, my computer/stereo, and my grow equipment seems to be connected to the same fuse. When the fuse blows I tried the dryer and it didn't work and my computer didn't work as well as my grow. I know that the dryer pulls about 5000+ watts max so i can assume that running all these items at once can blow the fuse.


Can i replace the 30 amp with a 35amp or higher? I don't want to burn the house down.

Or would you find a different outlet?

I'm running a 400hps, 1 fan, 1 blower, 1 inline fan for a carbon filter and then 2 4ft cfls with a fan as well.

How can i isolate a power source that is just for my grow?

Thanks man!

Click to expand...

sounds like you have waaaay to many things connected to that circuit man. i would definitly find another outlet for the computer and stereo if possible.

as far as upgrading to a larger fuze size, im afraid you'll find its not possible. manufacturers have built in safe guards in the way the fuses connect to your panel to prevent this from being possible, only thing you can do as far as changing the amperage of a fuse is downsize the overall size or change from the 'instantaneous trip' to a 'delayed trip' type of fuse. im also curious why the dryer quit working... im going to assume its a natural gas dryer? all of the electric dryers ive run across always require 220v, and if your electric dryer goes out as the same time as the 120v plugs in your house, theres more than one problem going on here.

do you own or rent? i ask this because to correct the problem, personally i would run a new cable for a dedicated outlet for the grow. and most landlords will shit a brick if they find out you made modifications without there approval.

do any of the lights in the rest of the house go out when the fuse blows?

if not a viable option may be wiring the ballast in place of the light fixture in the grow room, or wiring it in parallel with the light fixture.
you can do this easily with a metallic outlet box extension, a clamp type connector, a couple wire nuts and a short, heavy duty extension cord you can cut. (shop or construction grade. not the type mom uses to plug in her lamps and clocks around the house)
you can also get a peice of type SO or type SJ 12/2 or 14/2 cable and a female cord end at any home depot or hardware store if you want to spend the cash

simply shut the power off, remove the light fixture and un do the wiring, bolt the box extension to the outlet box in the wall using some good, steel 8/32 screws. then run your cord into one of the knockouts,
then put the fixture on the extension...
however DO NOT attempt this if the light fixture were talking about here happens to be a ceiling fan. i repeat- dont do it. the vibrations from the fan motor will cause the screws to loosen over time and send the whole thing crashing down, wiring, fan and all....

the only downside to this is the cord will be controlled by the switch on the wall.. keep this in mind if you plan on running a timer on it.

Hello,

Could you give me some advice ,I am looking @ 12v adapters on Ebay, surley once I hav got one I can just plug a PC fan straight into it without having 2do ne dodgy wiring?

Peace.

Straight up G said:

Hello,

Could you give me some advice ,I am looking @ 12v adapters on Ebay, surley once I hav got one I can just plug a PC fan straight into it without having 2do ne dodgy wiring?

Peace.

Click to expand...

unfortunately, probably not. unless your able to find an adapter that fits the cord type of your pc fan, however thats an expensive part to buy when you can safely modify any plug in 12v adapter that has enough amperage/wattage to push the fan.

typically 12v plug in adapters have 2 conductors. when performing this type of mod i like to use the cheap generic universal adapters you can find at any electronics shop. i like them because the polarity is usually marked on the cable, and if i mess it up, its cheap! just get another one.

cut the cord connecter off the pc fan. theres typically 3 wires, a red, a black, and a yellow/green/odd color. all you need to worry about is the red and black. the other wire is an rpm monitor for the pc fan. it has no purpose here. the red wire is the 12v+ the black wire is the 12v -

on the cord adapter, the wire with the white strip is normally the hot (+) and the unmarked wire is typically the common (-), although i have run accross a few where the exact opposite is true, so check it with a meter if you have one.

just connect the marked (+) wire to the red and the unmarked (-) wire to the black. i like to use ideal small blue wire nuts for the connection, although ' beanie' or 'dolphin' or 'beans' type telecom compression connectors also work well

oh really??? said:

ok well I keep blowing the fuse in my 1950's home. It's a thirty amp fuse.

Click to expand...

this sets off red flags to me. most homes built in the 50s used 14 gauge wire so it should only have a 15 amp fuse. even new houses only use 12 gauge wiring for normal outlets so it should have a 20 amp fuse. unless the circuit is run in 10 gauge wire,someone has already replaced the fuse w/ a bigger one to "solve" the problem of blown fuses.either consult an electrician or check what size wire is tied to that fuse.

mrmadcow said:

this sets off red flags to me. most homes built in the 50s used 14 gauge wire so it should only have a 15 amp fuse. even new houses only use 12 gauge wiring for normal outlets so it should have a 20 amp fuse. unless the circuit is run in 10 gauge wire,someone has already replaced the fuse w/ a bigger one to "solve" the problem of blown fuses.either consult an electrician or check what size wire is tied to that fuse.

Click to expand...

it set off a red flag for me to, though its extremely difficult to diagnose a problem via a forum. could be that someone ran a plug circuit off of one leg of the dryer circuit. ive seen that in old houses. could be that fuse is feeding an old 60amp loadcenter hidden somewhere in the attic or crawl or under the stairs or behind the fridge... theres alot of possibilities there for gremlins. like i said before, nuiscance tripping is a real bitch to deal with

hello

thanks for taking the time to answer a few questions 1am5toned... especially in the electrics department... its greatly appreciated

i have 1 or 2 questions that i hope you could help me with regard to wiring up a cab grow that im considering attempting...

firstly lemme give u a basic idea of the equipment i intend to use...


flowering cab...

250w hps (cooltubed) with lumatek 250w digital ballast


link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=1191&osCsid=c9b23219cbe3813d56c74a9efaec60b3

4 inch shower inline duct extractor for cooltube (either 1 or 2 depending on ducting layout / cab size)


link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Shower-Bathroom-Fan-INLINE-DUCT-EXTRACTOR-4-100mm_W0QQitemZ180392990788QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air?hash=item2a00429844&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

4 or 5 inch extractor fan and carbon filter


link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EXTRACTOR-FAN-KIT-CARBON-FILTER-4-HYDROPONICS-new-2009_W0QQitemZ260475769694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3ca590d35e&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

very cheap 300w pc power supply for powering a handful of pc fans & fan controller


link : http://www.ebuyer.com/product/20083


link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-050-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=4]


link : http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-021-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=189


clone & veg cabs....

1x 150-175w cfl in each cab


link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-150w-ECO-CFL-Lamp-Bulbs-Grow-Lights-for-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ250464646370QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN?hash=item3a50db34e2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

and another cheap 300w psu / fans / controller


and my questions are.....

1 ... i have just 3 spare 240v sockets in the room where im wanting to grow... theres a double and a single socket at opposite sides of the small room... which isnt enough for what i need... and im not very happy about running a 4 or a 6 way extension to my flowering box... is it worth me investing in a 13 amp contactor relay for my flowering box ?


link : http://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_75&products_id=59

2 ... the 4 inch shower fans are fixed speed only... would i be ok wiring a normal 240v lighting dimmer switch or 2 into the fans power leads so i can control their speed ?... in regard to the carbon filter fan... ive read they are quite noisy and id also like to be able to control its speed too... i assume it would be ok dimmer switching this up too ?


link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GANG-2-WAY-400W-DIMMER-IN-WHITE-NEW-CLEARENCE-LINE_W0QQitemZ250494957081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM?hash=item3a52a9b619&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

3 ... my clone and veggie cabs only have 1 socket from which they can be powered from.... will i be ok running the 2 x 150w cfls & the cheap pc power pack thru a 4 way extension ?

4 ... would you reccomend that i incorperated any trip switches as an extra fail safe or am i being too paranoid ?


link : http://cgi.ebay.ie/Square-D-Type-QOE-16-amp-Type-2-Stabloc-1-pole-MCB_W0QQitemZ260473847959QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Materials_Supplies_Electrical_ET?hash=item3ca5738097&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


some additional infoz....

my small home has 2x 32 amp circuits at the leccy box for all its sockets... the room i wanna grow in is my laundry room where i keep my washer and drier (they have a socket each but i think that they are spurred of the single socket)... the double socket for the flowering cab is spurred from my adjacent bedroom and my outside light (energy saving flouresent) is spurred from the rear of the flowering cab socket... i also know that my home was fully rewired back in the early 1990s... if thats any help

many thx in advance

p.s. and i dont have any spare slots in my fuse box to create a dedicated power source for my grow

I would look into using the FIM technique. This method provides the same results as topping, with much less stress on the plants. Marijuana plants are also VERY resilient, a main branch snapped on one of my girls and used a piece of twine to give it some support and by the next day it had been healed.

IAm5toned said:

So I stumbled across this site after a recent layoff, I had wanted to try and pick up a few tips on drying and curing and couldnt help feeling like I have hit the jackpot when I found it. Thanks for the great tips on harvesting. So I have decided to return the favor and lend my 15+ years of experience as a commercial/industrial electrician to try and answer any questions you have regarding wiring issues, lighting placement/intensity/spectrum, control wiring, power factors, heat dissapation, techniques and anything you can come up with dealing with ohms amps or voltage. I also retain an expert knowledge of electronic security/intrusion protection for those that wish to protect their babies from prying eyes and fingers So give me a good question, im really bored and no one is hiring, and my babies are flowering so ive got nothing to do but sit here and spread the wisdom.... hope to see some good questions, some of the solutions I have seen regarding electrical problems on here have been ingenious and creative, however the majority i have seen leave me with a wierd feeling in my stomach, like the type you get when you know something is going to go wrong and bad things happen but theres nothing you can do about it... And I hate that! So give me your best shot, and I will do my best to answer your questions with solutions that are not only practical and easy, but SAFE!

Click to expand...

so i got 2 outlets i want on switches and on the same circuit, so im thinkin i have power come into a junction box i have a line from each outlet come into the junction than i hook the 3 nuteral(white) wires together with a wirenut and tape. than i put 2 lines come in from the 2 seperate switches, conect the black power to the 2 blacks from the switches than the whites from the switches get hooked to the blacks from the outlets and this should work right????

tusseltussel said:

so i got 2 outlets i want on switches and on the same circuit, so im thinkin i have power come into a junction box i have a line from each outlet come into the junction than i hook the 3 nuteral(white) wires together with a wirenut and tape. than i put 2 lines come in from the 2 seperate switches, conect the black power to the 2 blacks from the switches than the whites from the switches get hooked to the blacks from the outlets and this should work right????

Click to expand...

sounds like you have a good grasp of circuitry. yes this will work, just be sure to not mix up the switchlegs (white coming from switch) with the neutrals (white coming fromer power source and devices) and everything should be fine

OGKush00 said:

I would look into using the FIM technique. This method provides the same results as topping, with much less stress on the plants. Marijuana plants are also VERY resilient, a main branch snapped on one of my girls and used a piece of twine to give it some support and by the next day it had been healed.

Click to expand...

???????????? you ok?????