stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
4x CXA3070 Z4 .Further Tests.
- Thread starter stardustsailor
- Start date
DarthBlazeAnthony
Well-Known Member
May I please inquire the total cost of parts to build this cree light setup and the apx. build time? Awesome thread man!Last day of first vegging week . (That would be the seventh day ...)
Specimens: 2x Regular AutoFlowering of Unknown exact strain.
Pots: 20 liter
Medium: Black Peat-Perlite.
Ferts: Food Grade Mineral Salts .
Solid State Light Engine : 4x Cree CXA3070 3000°K 80CRI .
Drivers: 4x MeanWell HLP 80H-42 .
Driving Range : min 350mA - max 2100mA .Manually adjustable + manual OFF.
Cooling: ACTIVE (HSF ) .4x 120mm Fans 5.4 W nom. (each) .
12 speeds, manually adjustable.
Grow Space: SilverBox Evolution Grow Tent . 1.6 m x 1 m x 1 m
CXA's were driven at 350mA for six first days ,from today set at 500mA .
18/6 time scheme. ( 9.7 mols/dia )
Ta= 31°CView attachment 3204232
Tc of individual COB chips :
View attachment 3204233
The two youngsters underneath ...
View attachment 3204235
View attachment 3204237
Estimated Data:
View attachment 3204331
Cheers.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Total cost of Parts : Around 500-600 USD .
Approx Build time : 50 Hours .
Check here for detailed construction guides and notes :
https://www.rollitup.org/t/thinking-of-a-new-light.822679/page-35#post-10556895
DarthBlazeAnthony
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link @stardustsailor ...You guys are providing so many excellent tips. Much appreciated.
Attachments
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
12th day above ground ...
Growth Stage Code** : 1008
18/6 , @ ~500mA , ~10 mols/dia/sqm
Ta ( °C ) :
Tc 1-4 :
The youngsters :
I might be wrong ...But ..
Looks -to me- like a ' Stam' .... ( Code : 1108 !!! )
While that one looks-to me- like a " Pisty " ....( Code : 1208 ...
....)
A bit of stretching occured up to the petioles fully unfolded..
After 1st petioles' node ,internodal distance gets smaller ,as leaf lamina gets broader ...
(more light absorbed ) .
Leaves do seem to be of the "shade adapted" kind ....
( due to Low DLI and absence of deep red wls ) ....
Growth rate is pretty good ,even at 31-32 °C ,maybe already an indication of enough blue wls
(good stomatal conductance ,thus good CO2 assimilation / ~ 400ppm atmospheric ) ,
as is being assumed that the rest growth factors are close to ideal
( primary & secondary macronutrients,micronutrients and traces ,water ,root oxygen ).
Some leaf side -serrated- tips show slight curling upwards ,
maybe an indication of slight photoinhibition and/or water-light stress .
(Probably due to warm ambient temps and low Rel.humidity of air and of course the continuous 18 hour light regime .)
** Vegetative stage (principal stage code 1)
This stage is defined as the stage between emergence and generative development and ischaracterised by the growth of the stem and leaves. At the beginning of the vegetative stagethe plant grows slowly. In this phase the plant usually forms up to five true leaf pairs and short internodes (Figure 2). Later, during the fast stem elongation, internodes are longer(Cepoiu 1958, Bócsa and Karus 1997). During the whole vegetative stageusually seven to twelve leaf pairs are formed. The first leaf pair consists of a single leaflet (Figures 1C and 2).The second leaf pair has three leaflets, the third leaf pair has five leaflets and so on, usuallyup to eleven leaflets (Clarke 1997). We consider a leaf as unfolded when its leaflets are at least one cm long.Vegetative stage is defined by the number of fully developed leaves. Code 1002 is used forthe first leaf pair, code 1004 for the second leaf pair and code 10xx for the nth leaf pair (xx =2n). If the lower leaves have already been shed, it is necessary to count the nodes, taking into consideration that one node carries two leaves and that the first node belongs to the cotyledons.
http://www.inaro.de/deutsch/kulturpf/hanf/hemp_key.pdf
https://www.rollitup.org/t/decimal-code-for-growth-stages-of-cannabis-sativa-l.838363/
Growth Stage Code** : 1008
18/6 , @ ~500mA , ~10 mols/dia/sqm
Ta ( °C ) :
Tc 1-4 :
The youngsters :
I might be wrong ...But ..
Looks -to me- like a ' Stam' .... ( Code : 1108 !!! )
While that one looks-to me- like a " Pisty " ....( Code : 1208 ...
....)A bit of stretching occured up to the petioles fully unfolded..
After 1st petioles' node ,internodal distance gets smaller ,as leaf lamina gets broader ...
(more light absorbed ) .
Leaves do seem to be of the "shade adapted" kind ....
( due to Low DLI and absence of deep red wls ) ....
Growth rate is pretty good ,even at 31-32 °C ,maybe already an indication of enough blue wls
(good stomatal conductance ,thus good CO2 assimilation / ~ 400ppm atmospheric ) ,
as is being assumed that the rest growth factors are close to ideal
( primary & secondary macronutrients,micronutrients and traces ,water ,root oxygen ).
Some leaf side -serrated- tips show slight curling upwards ,
maybe an indication of slight photoinhibition and/or water-light stress .
(Probably due to warm ambient temps and low Rel.humidity of air and of course the continuous 18 hour light regime .)
** Vegetative stage (principal stage code 1)
This stage is defined as the stage between emergence and generative development and ischaracterised by the growth of the stem and leaves. At the beginning of the vegetative stagethe plant grows slowly. In this phase the plant usually forms up to five true leaf pairs and short internodes (Figure 2). Later, during the fast stem elongation, internodes are longer(Cepoiu 1958, Bócsa and Karus 1997). During the whole vegetative stageusually seven to twelve leaf pairs are formed. The first leaf pair consists of a single leaflet (Figures 1C and 2).The second leaf pair has three leaflets, the third leaf pair has five leaflets and so on, usuallyup to eleven leaflets (Clarke 1997). We consider a leaf as unfolded when its leaflets are at least one cm long.Vegetative stage is defined by the number of fully developed leaves. Code 1002 is used forthe first leaf pair, code 1004 for the second leaf pair and code 10xx for the nth leaf pair (xx =2n). If the lower leaves have already been shed, it is necessary to count the nodes, taking into consideration that one node carries two leaves and that the first node belongs to the cotyledons.
http://www.inaro.de/deutsch/kulturpf/hanf/hemp_key.pdf
https://www.rollitup.org/t/decimal-code-for-growth-stages-of-cannabis-sativa-l.838363/
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Come to think about it .....
Back in my old HPS days ....
I remember that clearly ,because then I used to top the plant(s) ....
At the 4th-5th node ...(1008 -1010 )
It was almost a 'set standard ' to reach 1008 at 11th -12th day ....
(No matter the strain ,autoflowering or photoperiodic ... )
But then ,400 Watts were utilised ...
Not ~70 Watts like nowdays ....
Let's see about the pistillate-staminate ratio,then ...
That's what I'm worried about ,really...
Growth rate from the 4x CXA3070 @ 500-600mA ,is just as good as if I was using a 400W HPS ...
At least up to now ...
With less than 1/4 of HID power ....
Cheers.
Back in my old HPS days ....
I remember that clearly ,because then I used to top the plant(s) ....
At the 4th-5th node ...(1008 -1010 )
It was almost a 'set standard ' to reach 1008 at 11th -12th day ....
(No matter the strain ,autoflowering or photoperiodic ... )
But then ,400 Watts were utilised ...
Not ~70 Watts like nowdays ....
Let's see about the pistillate-staminate ratio,then ...
That's what I'm worried about ,really...
Growth rate from the 4x CXA3070 @ 500-600mA ,is just as good as if I was using a 400W HPS ...
At least up to now ...
With less than 1/4 of HID power ....
Cheers.
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say no ,if four of these were to 'protect' my garden ...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Day 14th.
-Regular / Autoflower / Strain:Unknown
-18/6
-From today @ 700mA
-Stage :
#Left : 1010
#Right : 1010 => 1012
Ta
Tc @700mA /// Hour 11th of 18 => Tc stabilised.(Long before .......)
I may have 'overdone ' it a ..tad ..with the 'initial fertiliser load ' of the substrate ...
...
Before every grow I mix with the ( used many times,but flushed pretty good every time ) substrate ,a combo of salts ...
Mainly focused on N,K,Mg,S,Fe and Ca for a good 'start' ....
Well ...Sometimes my dosing spoon ...tends to be 'fuller ' ....
...
....
Anyway ..
'He' will get over it ...
( This assimilation rate ,might be another sign of a male/ staminate plant ..)
Well ..
I think I'm fallin' in love with that led fixture ....
...
Cheers.
-Regular / Autoflower / Strain:Unknown
-18/6
-From today @ 700mA
-Stage :
#Left : 1010
#Right : 1010 => 1012
Ta
Tc @700mA /// Hour 11th of 18 => Tc stabilised.(Long before ....
...) I may have 'overdone ' it a ..tad ..with the 'initial fertiliser load ' of the substrate ...
...Before every grow I mix with the ( used many times,but flushed pretty good every time ) substrate ,a combo of salts ...
Mainly focused on N,K,Mg,S,Fe and Ca for a good 'start' ....
Well ...Sometimes my dosing spoon ...tends to be 'fuller ' ....
.......Anyway ..
'He' will get over it ...
( This assimilation rate ,might be another sign of a male/ staminate plant ..)
Well ..
I think I'm fallin' in love with that led fixture ....
...
Cheers.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
The Effect of Electrical Lighting Power and Irradiance on Indoor-Grown Cannabis Potency and Yield
Abstract:
The floral development and potencies [Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) contents] of cannabis plants were compared when grown indoors under high-pressure sodium lamps consuming electrical power at three densities (270, 400, and 600 W/m2). After a 3-week vegetative phase, plants were grown for 8 weeks, with lamps maintaining an artificial day length of 12 h. Foliar and floral yields were measured. Gas chromatography was used to measure the content of the psychoactive cannabinoid THC. Mean yields per unit of electrical power in each lighting regime ranged from 0.9 to 1.6 g/W, the highest being achieved in the lowest irradiance regime. The individual potencies of the separated leaf and flower materials were not affected by increasing irradiance. However, there was a corresponding increase in the overall potency of the aerial plant tissue. This was because of the plants in brighter conditions producing a higher proportion of floral material.
So ...At 270 W ( HPS ) x 1.6 gpw => 432 g
and at
600W ( HPS ) x 0.9 gpw => 540 g
( 2 x 270 Watt = 540Watt = 864 g .....
Talkin' about ....
Spreading light Power...
And at what level it increases growth efficiency of both light fixture and plants ... ....
Also:
Shade adapted leaves are more efficient than sun adapted ones.
Although overall PS yields per dia (day ) are lower,of course ,due to lower DLI ..
-Less light energy 'offered' =>less chemical energy produced..
But the actual rates of converting light energy into chemical ,are of higher efficiency ....
......
Same goes with leds ,as with the HPS of the research ....
More or Less ..
Rather to the .."more " side...
As light quality of LEDS/ COBS is some light years better than of HID lights ...)
Sure another reason to use more pieces of CXAs ,but driven as low as possible ...
But ....also ....
Abstract:
The floral development and potencies [Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) contents] of cannabis plants were compared when grown indoors under high-pressure sodium lamps consuming electrical power at three densities (270, 400, and 600 W/m2). After a 3-week vegetative phase, plants were grown for 8 weeks, with lamps maintaining an artificial day length of 12 h. Foliar and floral yields were measured. Gas chromatography was used to measure the content of the psychoactive cannabinoid THC. Mean yields per unit of electrical power in each lighting regime ranged from 0.9 to 1.6 g/W, the highest being achieved in the lowest irradiance regime. The individual potencies of the separated leaf and flower materials were not affected by increasing irradiance. However, there was a corresponding increase in the overall potency of the aerial plant tissue. This was because of the plants in brighter conditions producing a higher proportion of floral material.
So ...At 270 W ( HPS ) x 1.6 gpw => 432 g
and at
600W ( HPS ) x 0.9 gpw => 540 g
( 2 x 270 Watt = 540Watt = 864 g .....
Talkin' about ....
Spreading light Power...
And at what level it increases growth efficiency of both light fixture and plants ... ....
Also:
Shade adapted leaves are more efficient than sun adapted ones.
Although overall PS yields per dia (day ) are lower,of course ,due to lower DLI ..
-Less light energy 'offered' =>less chemical energy produced..
But the actual rates of converting light energy into chemical ,are of higher efficiency ....
......
Same goes with leds ,as with the HPS of the research ....
More or Less ..
Rather to the .."more " side...
As light quality of LEDS/ COBS is some light years better than of HID lights ...)
Sure another reason to use more pieces of CXAs ,but driven as low as possible ...
But ....also ....
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
No one wants the TC to go / be high ..
It affects both the real-time operational efficiency and the service life of the COB ...
Along with overall and local phosphor degradation ....
Plus the 'gains' in red are minimal ....
Spectral shift due to TC is not as great as spectral shift depending on If ...
So what SupraSPL says (and does for his own ) all the time ,is more than correct ...
More pieces of COBs and lower Io on drivers ... (Io=If ) ...
Spread the power ..Plants will 'work' more efficiently also ...
Still ,it costs more ...(Initial cost ) ....
'Cause the $ /WΦ ( $ per optical power ) ratio is actually decreasing ...
Cheers
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Still ,I would have expected way more 'stretching' on those two autoflowering specimens ...
Due to elevated Ta ( ~33 °C average / 91.4 °F ) ..
Probably ,even at such low driving current ,CXA3070 3000K has enough of the wls needed to
keep via photomorphogenic pathways , a really tight internodal distance .
Or might be also the color bins I 've ...
( Though ,even the 4 step McAdam Ellipse bins are pretty close ..
Average Human vision detects 'chromaticity inconsistencies ' at 5 -steps and above ...)
Due to elevated Ta ( ~33 °C average / 91.4 °F ) ..
Probably ,even at such low driving current ,CXA3070 3000K has enough of the wls needed to
keep via photomorphogenic pathways , a really tight internodal distance .
Or might be also the color bins I 've ...
( Though ,even the 4 step McAdam Ellipse bins are pretty close ..
Average Human vision detects 'chromaticity inconsistencies ' at 5 -steps and above ...)
Positivity
Well-Known Member
That's really interesting sds. Doesn't that conflict with the PDF you listed a while back stating higher irradiances increased thc levels.
I'm at 50w a sq/ft right now but I'm definitely dropping that down to 40w or less in the future. 50w is stressing them more than I like.
Have a feeling my 400w light could light up a much larger area than my 4' x 2' tent. Maybe a 4' x 4' albeit with less than optimal light spread akin to hps point source
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Conflict ?
" However, there was a corresponding increase in the overall potency of the aerial plant tissue.
This was because of the plants in brighter conditions producing a higher proportion of floral material. "
(Higher irradiances will cause leaves to be 'sun adapted'.Smaller leaves .
But being produced in greater numbers , than on a shade adapted plant.
.Still in florar bracts (buds ) ,smaller leaves mean bigger flower to leaf ratio .
Thus the overall potency ,increases ..)
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Positivity
Well-Known Member
It can be challenging decoding scientists use of words..
Thanks. That's what I thought. Aerial? I kinda like that..
Thanks. That's what I thought. Aerial? I kinda like that..
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
" Aerial "....
Yeah ....
Often called "Shoot" ....
(Like on " Root to Shoot Ratio ... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1365-3040.ep11604105/abstract;jsessionid=076256195821DCEF0DC72FAA6F0CA220.f03t04?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false )
Also known as ...
"Above Ground -Green- Plant Tissue "
.....
Yeah ....
Often called "Shoot" ....
(Like on " Root to Shoot Ratio ... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1365-3040.ep11604105/abstract;jsessionid=076256195821DCEF0DC72FAA6F0CA220.f03t04?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false )
Also known as ...
"Above Ground -Green- Plant Tissue "
.....
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
432g using 0.270kW * 12 hours * 56 days * $0.33/kWh = $59.88
540g using 0.6kW * 12 * 56 * 0.33 = $133.06
That's 3.85 additional ounces of white LED homegrown for $73.18. A bargain in my parts! Of course, $0.33 is the top usage tier in an expensive market. In most cases the difference will be more like half, $40.
If you sell, the bag appeal of greater nug size and hardness from high intensity more than makes up for the electricity by itself.
540g using 0.6kW * 12 * 56 * 0.33 = $133.06
That's 3.85 additional ounces of white LED homegrown for $73.18. A bargain in my parts! Of course, $0.33 is the top usage tier in an expensive market. In most cases the difference will be more like half, $40.
If you sell, the bag appeal of greater nug size and hardness from high intensity more than makes up for the electricity by itself.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well ,that's one 'side' I never take into account ,
as I mainly grow to ' satisfy ' my scientific-oriented queries
and secondly to cover my own 'tame-humble ' needs ...
Furthermore ...
How about 'spreading' / dividing the power ...???
Something like ....
2 x 270 Watt = 540Watt = 864 g . ( 1.6 gpw )
0.54KW *12*56*0.33= $119.75
How's that ?
Sounds better ,ain't so ?
Cheers.
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
A major "decision" a grower has to make ,regarding mainly vegging but also affecting the flowering following is
what kind of plant(s) are the optimal for the individual case or preferences ....
' Sun adapted ' or 'Shade Adapted " plants ?
Here are some differences I've personally noticed so far ....
Sun Adapted.
-Small leaves and thick. Usually dark green.Sometimes "shinny" / "glossy" / "waxy " adaxial* lamina " surface ..
- Great numbers of leaves .
-Somewhat more stretched plant(s) than the shade adapted.
-Plants tolerate plenty of light abuse ,at later flowering stages.
-'Thick' & dense floral bracts('buds' ) .High flower to leaf ratio .Higher overall potency .
-Flowers hold less water than of shade adapted ones.Thus after drying do not decrease in density that much.
-Higher K assimilation during both vegging and flowering.
-Nitrate (* NO3-) is somewhat ,more assimilated .
-Deep rooting of Main root .Not many lateral rooticles /
-Plants withstand higher ambient temps and dry air .
-CO2 really gives a 'boost' .
-Light regimes above 18 hours ,not recommended .
what kind of plant(s) are the optimal for the individual case or preferences ....
' Sun adapted ' or 'Shade Adapted " plants ?
Here are some differences I've personally noticed so far ....
Sun Adapted.
-Small leaves and thick. Usually dark green.Sometimes "shinny" / "glossy" / "waxy " adaxial* lamina " surface ..
- Great numbers of leaves .
-Somewhat more stretched plant(s) than the shade adapted.
-Plants tolerate plenty of light abuse ,at later flowering stages.
-'Thick' & dense floral bracts('buds' ) .High flower to leaf ratio .Higher overall potency .
-Flowers hold less water than of shade adapted ones.Thus after drying do not decrease in density that much.
-Higher K assimilation during both vegging and flowering.
-Nitrate (* NO3-) is somewhat ,more assimilated .
-Deep rooting of Main root .Not many lateral rooticles /
-Plants withstand higher ambient temps and dry air .
-CO2 really gives a 'boost' .
-Light regimes above 18 hours ,not recommended .
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Shade Adapted.
-Large Leaves .Thin / tender . Lime -Light green .Of ' velvety 'texture on adaxial surface .
-Moderate number of leaves.
-Plants do not tolerate high irradiances,high ambient temps and dry air .
-Floral bracts swell-up with water .
-Higher Ammonium (NH4+) assimilation.
-Superficial ,lateral rooting .
-Better PS efficiency of Sun adapted plants.Thus yield per energy ratio is higher .
-Added CO2 is an 'overkill ' ...
-Large Leaves .Thin / tender . Lime -Light green .Of ' velvety 'texture on adaxial surface .
-Moderate number of leaves.
-Plants do not tolerate high irradiances,high ambient temps and dry air .
-Floral bracts swell-up with water .
-Higher Ammonium (NH4+) assimilation.
-Superficial ,lateral rooting .
-Better PS efficiency of Sun adapted plants.Thus yield per energy ratio is higher .
-Added CO2 is an 'overkill ' ...
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
" How I can make my plants Sun or Shade Adapted ? "
It all starts from stage 0000 ( "Dry seed " ) ...
An 'achene' as it is also called ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achene
If the seed will proceed from 0000 to 0003 ( Cotyledons unfolded ) under illumination ,
the plant will tend to grow towards being a ' Sun Adapted' one.
Achene(s )going from 0000 to 0003 in dark or low light conditions ,will tend
to grow as Shade adapted plant(s) .
From stage 1000 to 2000
(from cotyledons fully expanded to change in phyllotaxis on the main stem .)
and to a lesser extend up to 2202 ,
(50% of floral bracts formed)
light quantity and quality ,seem to be the
two main attributes affecting the photomorphogenesis
of a plant into Shade or Sun adapted .
Time (Duration ) has to be adjusted accordingly ...
Light Quantity.
The figure of 300 umol/sec/squre meter is considered to be a 'general threshold' ...
Below that ,irradiance is considered Low / Moderate .
Above that ,is considered as 'High' or ' Very high '.
( * Cannabis has a Light Saturation Point at ~1500 umol/sec/square meter
So, 3600 *18 *300 / 1000000 = 19.44 mol/dia DLI18
Vegging for 18 hours under 19.5 mol/dia will favor shade adaptation ,while more than
19.5 will favor sun adaptation ...
It all starts from stage 0000 ( "Dry seed " ) ...
An 'achene' as it is also called ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achene
If the seed will proceed from 0000 to 0003 ( Cotyledons unfolded ) under illumination ,
the plant will tend to grow towards being a ' Sun Adapted' one.
Achene(s )going from 0000 to 0003 in dark or low light conditions ,will tend
to grow as Shade adapted plant(s) .
From stage 1000 to 2000
(from cotyledons fully expanded to change in phyllotaxis on the main stem .)
and to a lesser extend up to 2202 ,
(50% of floral bracts formed)
light quantity and quality ,seem to be the
two main attributes affecting the photomorphogenesis
of a plant into Shade or Sun adapted .
Time (Duration ) has to be adjusted accordingly ...
Light Quantity.
The figure of 300 umol/sec/squre meter is considered to be a 'general threshold' ...
Below that ,irradiance is considered Low / Moderate .
Above that ,is considered as 'High' or ' Very high '.
( * Cannabis has a Light Saturation Point at ~1500 umol/sec/square meter
)
So, 3600 *18 *300 / 1000000 = 19.44 mol/dia DLI18
Vegging for 18 hours under 19.5 mol/dia will favor shade adaptation ,while more than
19.5 will favor sun adaptation ...
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