can.i.buz
Well-Known Member
I agree! Everyone should show up to meetings with local politicians when the issue is brought up too.
2010 ballot!!!!!!! CALIFORNIA
- Thread starter smokeshop69
- Start date
veggiegardener
Well-Known Member
As a Californian, patient and caregiver, I'm very nervous about this. What if our wonderful assembly required growers to register, and taxed us $100/oz, or $1000 a plant? My wife uses TEN POUNDS annually. Follow the money.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Right? You think this tax is going to be something reasonable? Fat chance....The gov't currently profits 49% on cigarettes in the state of California. For every pack of smokes you buy, nearly 1/2 the money goes to taxes. A step in the right direction usually isn't. How many taxes have you ever seen reduced over time? It's not a step in the right direction, could be a step into a hole. I odn't have nearly enough details to support it yet and I don't know where to find them.
If someone has more info, please provide so we can make an educated decision and cumulatively get behind the RIGHT movement.
skate4theherb
Well-Known Member
how do i sign up?
Eire
Member
You sign up by contacting NORML, or the ASA, or taxcannabis.org, or any of the other organizations in your area and offering what you can of your time or donations or whatever.
The 2010 ballot would make marijuana possession, growing, and sales openly legal in CA for adults and taxable at all levels of CA govt. This means that the town will tax it, then the county also, then the state. The assumption is that those who support legalization will be okay with the taxes and those who don't will be swayed by the taxes.
I'm not sure how much would be legal to possess or how many plants. But it allows 25 sq ft for personal grows. They already have all the signatures they need to get it on the ballot, so we will definitely be voting on it in Nov 2010. There are also 2 or 3 other initiatives that various groups are proposing that may also get on the ballot depending on whether they get the signatures.
Then there are MMJ reforms to specify the details of the MMJ system to lock it down so that local DAs and police can't purposely misinterpret things as they do now in order to continue their crusades against it. For instance, there are officials who claim that possession of MMJ is legal by CA law, but since the law only made possession of MMJ legal and did not address the issues of growing and selling it then it can only be grown and sold by the state, and since the state has no system in place to do so then possession is still illegal because there is no legal way to gain possession.
BS, right? It's the same logic as the 1930's when you had to have a govt stamp on legal MJ to possess it, but you had to have possession to get the stamp at which point you would be arrested for not already having the stamp that you could not get without already possessing the marijuana. Thus legal possession was a moot point and the crazy bastard prohibitionists won. And don't get me started with the issue of busting smoke shops because they used the term bong instead of pipe because bongs are paraphernalia which is still illegal.
These are ongoing issues being proposed locally in each town, and more state level reforms are planned for 2012. It is obvious that we are far from winning this fight. We may be a majority now, but our opposition is highly fanatical and can tie us up and win even if we have a super majority. So many people believe that the only way to win against the crazy fanatics is to get govt on our side by bribing it with taxes. The idea is that once the govt stops persecuting use then the public will see that it is not the demonic drug it has been portrayed to be, and once the public accepts it as it does beer then the fanatics will be just screaming into the wind. They can still have their dry counties and otherwise they can be ignored.
So, there are several groups all working for their own versions of laws. NORML supports what they think will work for right now, so their positions change a little over time. The ASA by nature supports MMJ, but also legalization and taxation. I'm pretty sure the ASA is who first proposed and supported the 2010 tax ballot initiative. Then there is the Tax Cannabis organization found at taxcannabis.org which supports the 2010 ballot and others.
Every group basically supports whatever is on our plates right now because they believe that reform will always be ongoing and any forward movement is great because they can always support more reforms afterwards. The problem is that we may end up giving up more of our taxes than we wish, but that would be better than continuing prohibition. So should we pass on taxing full legalization and take the risk that we will then miss out and slowly sink back into full prohibition?
The MMJ laws are better than nothing right now, but it leaves the whole issue on the fence between full legalization and full prohibition, and that unstable balancing act can fall back on the wrong side again. Yes, we have made headway against full prohibition. But we have only gotten the issue up onto the fence, not over it. It sits there precariously wobbling back and forth while we discuss our next moves.
But the only reason w have gotten this far is that those who oppose us have been distracted of late with wars and economic woes. We can not afford to screw around until they get their acts together again or else we are doomed.
So personally, I am going to support and work for all the different initiatives until it is at least as legal as beer. Then I'll worry about the levels of taxation and regulation. I admit that I may be entirely wrong to do this, but I have a really bad feeling about leaving it on the fence for too long. My body is in medical need yes, but my soul cries for true liberty.
The 2010 ballot would make marijuana possession, growing, and sales openly legal in CA for adults and taxable at all levels of CA govt. This means that the town will tax it, then the county also, then the state. The assumption is that those who support legalization will be okay with the taxes and those who don't will be swayed by the taxes.
I'm not sure how much would be legal to possess or how many plants. But it allows 25 sq ft for personal grows. They already have all the signatures they need to get it on the ballot, so we will definitely be voting on it in Nov 2010. There are also 2 or 3 other initiatives that various groups are proposing that may also get on the ballot depending on whether they get the signatures.
Then there are MMJ reforms to specify the details of the MMJ system to lock it down so that local DAs and police can't purposely misinterpret things as they do now in order to continue their crusades against it. For instance, there are officials who claim that possession of MMJ is legal by CA law, but since the law only made possession of MMJ legal and did not address the issues of growing and selling it then it can only be grown and sold by the state, and since the state has no system in place to do so then possession is still illegal because there is no legal way to gain possession.
BS, right? It's the same logic as the 1930's when you had to have a govt stamp on legal MJ to possess it, but you had to have possession to get the stamp at which point you would be arrested for not already having the stamp that you could not get without already possessing the marijuana. Thus legal possession was a moot point and the crazy bastard prohibitionists won. And don't get me started with the issue of busting smoke shops because they used the term bong instead of pipe because bongs are paraphernalia which is still illegal.
These are ongoing issues being proposed locally in each town, and more state level reforms are planned for 2012. It is obvious that we are far from winning this fight. We may be a majority now, but our opposition is highly fanatical and can tie us up and win even if we have a super majority. So many people believe that the only way to win against the crazy fanatics is to get govt on our side by bribing it with taxes. The idea is that once the govt stops persecuting use then the public will see that it is not the demonic drug it has been portrayed to be, and once the public accepts it as it does beer then the fanatics will be just screaming into the wind. They can still have their dry counties and otherwise they can be ignored.
So, there are several groups all working for their own versions of laws. NORML supports what they think will work for right now, so their positions change a little over time. The ASA by nature supports MMJ, but also legalization and taxation. I'm pretty sure the ASA is who first proposed and supported the 2010 tax ballot initiative. Then there is the Tax Cannabis organization found at taxcannabis.org which supports the 2010 ballot and others.
Every group basically supports whatever is on our plates right now because they believe that reform will always be ongoing and any forward movement is great because they can always support more reforms afterwards. The problem is that we may end up giving up more of our taxes than we wish, but that would be better than continuing prohibition. So should we pass on taxing full legalization and take the risk that we will then miss out and slowly sink back into full prohibition?
The MMJ laws are better than nothing right now, but it leaves the whole issue on the fence between full legalization and full prohibition, and that unstable balancing act can fall back on the wrong side again. Yes, we have made headway against full prohibition. But we have only gotten the issue up onto the fence, not over it. It sits there precariously wobbling back and forth while we discuss our next moves.
But the only reason w have gotten this far is that those who oppose us have been distracted of late with wars and economic woes. We can not afford to screw around until they get their acts together again or else we are doomed.
So personally, I am going to support and work for all the different initiatives until it is at least as legal as beer. Then I'll worry about the levels of taxation and regulation. I admit that I may be entirely wrong to do this, but I have a really bad feeling about leaving it on the fence for too long. My body is in medical need yes, but my soul cries for true liberty.
can.i.buz
Well-Known Member
LA, you need to show up tomorrow. Things are getting out of control. The LA City Council voted today to cap the dispensaries in LA today to 70 but they were going to grandfather/give preferential treatment to the original 186. What? It will be more like 139 or maybe below 70. OK, that sounds good.
They also decided that they would not be able to "abut" a residential area. Oh, wait, let's make that 1000 feet. No that's crazy. There would be no dispensaries that would qualify. You're right. That is crazy. But.... It has to be "abut". No we don't like that word. What would you like to call it? I don't know. Let's debate it for 2 hours. Ok, let's make it 500. What happened to "abut". Oh that's right. Let's do "abut". Ok, so what's a residential area? I know this sounds crazy, but could that be where a homeless person decided to make their home. Oh, why, you're correct. It could. It could also be a motor home. Ok, that makes sense. So, let's make it 1000 feet from any residential area. Ok. Passed.
This is a sample of the 7 hour craziness that we endured today. We need your help tomorrow at city hall at 10PM. PM me if you can make it.
They also decided that they would not be able to "abut" a residential area. Oh, wait, let's make that 1000 feet. No that's crazy. There would be no dispensaries that would qualify. You're right. That is crazy. But.... It has to be "abut". No we don't like that word. What would you like to call it? I don't know. Let's debate it for 2 hours. Ok, let's make it 500. What happened to "abut". Oh that's right. Let's do "abut". Ok, so what's a residential area? I know this sounds crazy, but could that be where a homeless person decided to make their home. Oh, why, you're correct. It could. It could also be a motor home. Ok, that makes sense. So, let's make it 1000 feet from any residential area. Ok. Passed.
This is a sample of the 7 hour craziness that we endured today. We need your help tomorrow at city hall at 10PM. PM me if you can make it.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
What the hell is going on at City Hall @ 10:00pm? What can we do? Is anyone else going to be around @ 10:00pm?
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Oh good shit brotha, glad that was cleared up, thought it might've been a typo! What can we do today at 10:00am? I can rally a few people to come by for a few hours to show our support. I wish I knew more about the movement right now, but I'm not sure what we can do to help.
I understand what's being discussed (it's on every news channel), I'm just curious what you are looking for from the general population. Do you need us just to show up for support?
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Alright, I'm going to leave right now! I have to drive through shitty traffic to get there, but I'm onboard!
can.i.buz
Well-Known Member
Today was a short day but an important one. The City Council went home last night and apparently slept off their confusion from yesterday. At least some of it. We showed up in force with some of the major players and they continue the vote until January 12, 2010. That will give them enough time to hopefully think this through a bit more. I was prepared with a speech that would have embarrassed the council and entertained the audience and cameras. I was so ready to give it. 
But it's all good since we got some breathing room!
But it's all good since we got some breathing room!
can.i.buz
Well-Known Member
There will probably be 3 initiatives on the ballot that we can vote for. It is being suggested that we vote for all 3.
veggiegardener
Well-Known Member
25 square feet?
NONE of my plants are that small!
Color me AGAINST this idiocy!
ALL the coastal counties allow far more room, and six plants each, regardless of size, everywhere else.
FUCK these idiots!
Remember, that twenty five feet could mean EVERYTHING must be placed in that space.
NONE of my plants are that small!
Color me AGAINST this idiocy!
ALL the coastal counties allow far more room, and six plants each, regardless of size, everywhere else.
FUCK these idiots!
Remember, that twenty five feet could mean EVERYTHING must be placed in that space.
Attachments
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
You have to start somewhere and you have to realize this isn't talking about MMJ, it's full on legalization and doesn't effect current MMJ laws.
veggiegardener
Well-Known Member
Are you certain of what you are saying?
A link, please?
A link, please?
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
veggiegardener
Well-Known Member
Thank you! That helps put some of my fears to rest.
A link to the full text:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_390_bill_20090223_introduced.html