2000w 30pot ebb&gro scrog Blueberry,Sourdiesel,BigBud ready for blast off.

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
looking good. Lucas smucas.... some people swear by it, it kind of seems like a hug pain in the ass. Unless you have a REALLY big rez. just dump and refill at a week or 10 days. That way you ensure that you have a balanced host of nutrients in there. I'm not so sure the basic formula calls for using bloom type ingredients at this time. In a broad generalization, the plants really only need a good deal of nitrogen right now. They need P and K for a host of functions, sure, but what is really important in veg is the N. I do believe that scotty had a N deficiency at some point.

Anywho, so did you see the edges of the leaves bounce back when you moved the lights up? Hopefully you were able to notice that they were slightly rolling inward.. Classic heat stress. Sometimes they turn sideways or twist as well to "get away from the light".

If I may make a suggestion. Whenever you top off the rez, top it off with plain tap water or RO or whatever you using. Then record the PPM. When I mean record I mean write that shit down!!! Over the course of a week you should see your topped off Rez numbers decline. This is the great thing about hydro..you can monitor what is actually being absorbed by the plants. I typically let them fall a 100 or so and then add nutes to get them back to the first day PPM was. I see less of a swing now as I am using a 55 gallon rez for 12 plants.

If you top off and your PPM are the same or even a little higher... WARNING WARNING WARNING... over nuting or lock out or something as nothing is being absorbed.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
oh yeah, forgot to mention.. don't worry about your carbon filter right now; unless you need it for circulation. There is no smell to filter when the plants are vegging so let the humidity soar (within reason).
 

frogster

Active Member
Lots happening... I hacked the lower leaves off that were formerly mite infested and the ones that looked like they had cancer, seems the plants loved this. I switched out my rez. yesterday and went ahead and filled it full this time, I raised the nutes a little (600ppm) and they seem to love it. I have several plants trying to play catch up, but im thinking of raising nutes everyday about 75-100ppm till I hit 850? Your opinion? The 3 leaf claw (on tips only) on 5 of my plants seem to be a genetic thing for blueberry strains, and supposedly will be fine. Also they were getting too much N as I was mixing 1part gh micro 5-0-1 to the floranova bloom 4-8-7 ... The lucas formula calls for the regular micro to the regular bloom formula 0-5-4, not the floranova! oops.. I did add a little of the micro with the fill up but not as much. I believe Scotty had a nutrient problem but it wasnt due to the product, I will review it. The carbon filter is attached and up (hung it, by myself, from my shoulder with straps and a screw gun, fun, fun), its ok, i like fresh air coming in my house and feel better thats its doing its job. I have way too much standing water in some of my pots and I may raise them, But im worried the roots will dry out up top? Or will they be ok? The standing water keeps a lot of high ph water in the pots that mixes with the freshly lowered ph causing who knows what ph? And the fact that I add 1tablespoon 30% h202 daily, I feel that the standing water isnt allowing for maximum advantage of the h202 at fill time, this is why I put them on a higher flooding schedule. With the higher Novaflora buffers my ph seems to not swing up as fast.. yea! :hump: ... thats all for now, here are a few pics of the two plants that I always post... Frogster
 

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frogster

Active Member
THE CLAW!!! Im dealing with claw issues on a few of my plants...pretty bad on new growth,,, I cut back watering to every six hrs..I dont think its just a N excess ... or ammonium nitrate buildup. After learning (10hrs of reading) about nutes and ph... Im taking legals advice and letting my ph go up to 6.5... Im pretty sure I have a mag. and k issue with running my ph from 5.0-6.0 ... so I will run it 5.5-6.5.. They are taking about 20ppm of nutes a day and water level is dropping about 1/2 -3/4 a day ... I have about 45 gallons in the rez... Im going to go ahead and raise the pots about 2"... I hate them sitting in that much water even though I add h202... I wish i had the $$ to get an air pump and put a stone in each pot,,, also would love to get larger (5gal)lower buckets for larger root balls.... oh well, next grow perhaps... I have two hot shots for my room,I treat the room every 4-5 days. I turn off my exhaust fan and put them in front of my circulation fan and let the room set 2-3 hrs, the temps climb to about 82-84 degrees, no pest problem since I started doing that.. Thx everyone
 

frogster

Active Member
Last night I started to let my ph start rising higher as legal instructed... I havnt adjusted or checked my ph meter since the beginning/or before I ever transplanted the clones.. 25-30 days ago? So I went and bought some gh 7.0 ph solution... My ph was at 6.3 in the rez.. After cleaning and adjusting the probe my ph was 5.8!!! I have been knocking down my ph at 6.0-6.1 to 5.1-5.4 ... but if my probe was off .5 then I was only letting my ph get to 5.5-5.6 max!! And lowering it to 4.6!! Crap... I was reading many times that nutrient deficiency most of the time isn't the nutrients, but the ph being out of whack..Well, here's the proof.. Check out that yellowing, That's the worst one but many are similar.. The one older leaf actually has developed a hole it that developed in two days... And of course I have major CLAW on new/young growth... Damn I hate being a noob..... Frogster
 

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legallyflying

Well-Known Member
And hence the lockout of micro nutes. Not calibrating your meter happens to eveyone....once.
Again, I would say no lower than 5.7 on the ph. Also, don't fall into the trap of " they are really cranking, let's give them some more nutes and really hit the gas" trap. If they like 600 ppm, then just leave it there.

I know it's your first grow and it's exciting and nerve wrecking when something goes wrong, but try not to keep switching things up. I was pretty damn manical at first but know I only record my Rez stats every 3-4 days. I have to top the one of everyday but I just pour the water in look at ppm and ph to make sure they are not widely out of whack and then walk away.

From my records, it's the 4-5 and week long ppm changes that matter. I
monitor how much they are actually uptaking. If they are uptaking allot, then I'll slightly increase nutes. It's a whole lot less stressfull for a plant to be in need of nutrients than it is too overfeed them.

Anywho, glad you caught the ph meter problem. Which meter is it? Seems suspect to float that far off in such little time.
 

frogster

Active Member
I have been cleaning for the last 3 hrs.... I found what I thought was nutrient on one of the roots,, just a little... I have two air stones in the rez... i pulled them out and what a surprise!!!! Brown slime! all over them... Obviously my nutes were going down thanks to this additional little learning curve problem,,, LOL... Im on the fast track with this grow to learn everything at once it seems...After reading up on this for about two hrs I see all the mistakes I have been making... OH BOY, (dont be too harsh on me) here goes... After working on the plants the past few weeks (trimming dead leaves, mite infested, etc, etc) I was using the ebb&gro control bucket to wash off everything... Wow... Total noob mistake,,, Now im blessed with algae in my Rez..... I took everything out and washed it off and sanitized it with high h202,, plenty of fizzzzz...... I also added a good amount (not crazy amount ) of h202 into the rez... I know this is a temp fix and from what I read this will not go away until I flush and add back good microbial bacteria.. here's a good thread here.. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/354109-brown-algae-whos-dealt.html this also was contributing to my claw... all my roots look good, it was just the one that had a little stuff on it, I cleaned it off and dipped it in h202 solution,, fizz,fizz... The ph seems to be holding steady at 6.0 for some time.. the ppm have dropped a little more and the water level is going down about 1/2" a day... Plant color is getting better.. but new growth on the ones with the claw seem to have slowed/stopped, others are growing away... I appreciate all the help as I really need to complete this harvest... I had no idea you could get algae in your rez if you were using h202 and an airstone... Surprise , surprise as Gomer Pile would say... lol.. My meter is a tri-meter continuous.. ph, temp and PPM... When I cleaned it earlier it was a little dirty at the very tip... It wasn't slimy like my pump or air stones.... Im enjoying the learning curve as long as I keep the plants alive! So tomorrow I will try to resolve this issue and Wonder whats next! lol..Agin , thx for any input.... Frog
 

frogster

Active Member
Greencoast Hydroponics' website has like EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know


Introduction to the Root Zone

Plant roots are arguably the most important part of a plant, and are also one of the most easily damaged. Root problems and disease are the most common source of problems for growers. If you want to maximize the the health and ultimate yield of your plants, it is wise to have a clear picture of the crucial activites going on at the root zone.

Roots are made up of tough, fibrous tissues containing cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which branch into the soil mass (or grow media,) anchoring a plant firmly. Their basic functions are critical for plant survival: they absorb water, oxygen and minerals, and they conduct these to where they are needed. With a strong and healthy root zone, plants are able to access what they need for vigourous growth. Without a healthy root system, your plants are doomed to be weak and spineless, or even worse, dead.

A healthy root zone is a continuously growing one. In many plants this cycle includes the natural death of older roots and the production of new ones. This cycle of death and regeneration is often mistaken by growers as a sign of disease, but so long as there are new roots developing, some root death should not be a concern.

Root Zone Health and Color
A young plant root system should have lots of white furry root tips everwhere. A healthy mature root system will be strong and fiborous and will have a thick root mat. If the roots are cream or yellow on top of the mat, they should still have many white root tips underneath at the bottom.

Thick, fat, white furry roots are what you most want to see - they are absolutely indicative of healthy root growth. Be aware however that the color of a nutrient solution will stain the roots, turning them yellow or brown. This is also true of many nutrient additives. Older, more mature plants will have a darker cream-colored root system, and some plants just tend to have a natural color pigment.

Root Zone Temperature
The temperature of the root zone and the temperature of the nutrient solution can have a major effect on the healthy growth and appearance of the root system. In general the temperature should be between 68 and 72 degrees farenheit. Colder or warmer conditions can cause poor and stunted root growth, as the roots don't want to grow into the unhospitable nutrient solution. Major root death can occur in even brief periods of cold or heat stress. Poor temperature conditions leave the door open to root disease.

Oxygen at the Root Zone
Lack of oxygen at the root zone is the leading cause of root death. Roots NEED oxygen. Roots should never sit in stagnant or ponding nutrient solution - make sure the trays are tilted and supported to drain completely. Lack of oxygen can also be caused by decomposing organic material in the nutrient solution or trays - this material should always be removed. . Another problem can be too many plants competing for too little oxygen. These problems are worsened by high root zone temperatures.

Nutrient reservoirs should always be aerated by and air pump and air stone. You can never have too much oxygen, so the more and stronger air pumps used, the better. We have had great success adding air stones to the growing trays themselves, to supplement the root zone area with addtional oxygen. Some growers use H202 to add additional oxygen, as well.

EC/ TDS & pH
A nutrient strength level that is too high can be toxic to the root zone and will cause poor and stunted growth. At extreme levels, a too high level will cause actual death in the root zone. It is best to increase nutrient levels gradually over time rather than suddenly and all at once.



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Root-Microbe Symbiosis

The root zone of a plant is buzzing with life-essential processes of incredible complexity. This zone of intensive activity is called the rhizosphere. The root itself makes up part of the rhizosphere (the endorhizosphere), while the root hairs, mucigel, and root cells that have sloughed off constitute the ectorhizosphere.

The plant actually grows its own garden of microbes, along the root surfaces. To do this, the light energy captured from photosynthesis in the leaves is channeled down the stem through the phloem vessels and out through epidermal cells to the external root surface. Incredibly, up to 80% of the total plant energy--but usually 12 to 40%--is exuded as mucigel into the ectorhizosphere as carbohydrates, amino acids, and other energy-rich compounds. As the roots grow, the roots slough off dead cells which form a slimy covering and help the roots to slide easily as they grow. This slime is a food source for many millions of beneficial microbes. This food doesn't stay around long. Billions of bacteria, fungi, algae, actinomycetes, protozoa, and other microbes feed upon this exudate.

Those Phenomenal Mycorrhizae
Especially important are the mycorrhizal fungi which extend their thread-like hyphae from inside cortex cells out into the soil for several millimeters. They extend the feeding volume of the root by 10 to 1,000 times or more for most plant species (the cabbage family being a notable exception), and extract and carry nutrients back to the root. So important are they that scientists sometimes call the root zone the mycorrhizosphere. Pine trees will hardly grow without these fungi. There are two types- ectomycorrhiza and endomycorrhiza. Ectomycorrhiza are found in association with forest trees such as pines, eucalyptus and dipterocarps, while endomycorrhizal associations are formed in horticultural, forest and agronomic crops

Feeding On Exudate
In return for the release of nutritional substances from plant roots, microbes themselves produce chemicals that stimulate plant growth or protect the plant from attack. These substances include auxins, enzymes, vitamins, amino acids, indoles and antibiotics. These complex molecules are able to pass from the soil into plant cells and be transported to other parts of the plant, with minimal change to chemical structure, where they can stimulate plant growth and enhance plant reproduction. They may also play a role in enhancing the nutritional composition of the plant. The types of molecules released are specific for a variety of plants grown under certain conditions, forming in effect a unique chemical signature. As these molecules are released into the rhizosphere, they serve as food and growth stimulants for a certain mix of microbes.

The USDA Agricultural Research Service, and other scientists have shown that for each plant species, this characteristic chemical soup stimulates the development of a select, beneficial company of root-dwelling microbes. This microbial population colonizes the root zone, producing certain chemicals that inhibit the growth of pathogenic species. These organisms are also instrumental in supplying the plant’s unique nutritional needs .

The rhizosphere is always functioning for the plant whether it is growing in a field, in a pot, in a hydroponic media, or even in a lake or ocean. The details of function may differ somewhat, but the principles are the same in order for the plant to survive.


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Some of the main Beneficials at the Root Zone

Bacillus
Several varieties of Bacillus (i.e Bacillus megaterium) have been found to play a role in the conversion of unavailable forms of phosphates into plant available forms. In natural settings they can provide near 10% of the available phosphorous in the soil solution. With increased levels of plant available phosphorous, Bacillus strains become less effective. However, if the Bacillus can sustain as a back up it may continue to provide hungry blooms with phosphorous if it should become otherwise unavailable or “locked out”. This bacterium is of special interest to organic farmers who incorporate rock phosphate into the growing medium or if introduced through fertilizer teas, preparations, etc. Rock phosphate tends to be mostly unavailable, breaking down into plant available forms over time.

Certain forms of Bacillus are known to inhibit pythium and other pathogens. One of these is bacillus subtilis and is found in Hydroguard .

Mychorhizal Fung
Mycorrhizal fungi are especially effective in providing nutrients to plant roots. These are certain types of fungi that actually colonize the outer cells of plant roots, but also extend long fungal threads, or hyphae, far out into the rhizosphere, forming a critical link between the plant roots and the soil. Mycorrhizae produce enzymes that decompose organic matter, solubilize phosphorus and other nutrients from inorganic rock, and convert nitrogen into plant available forms. They also greatly expand the soil area from which the plant can absorb water. In return for this activity, mycorrhizae obtain valuable carbon and other nutrients from the plant roots. This is a win-win mutualism between both partners, with the plant providing food for the fungus and the fungus providing both nutrients and water to the plant. The importance of mycorrhizae in plant productivity and health has often been overlooked.It has been well documented that mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stress.Mycorrhizal technology has likewise made possible the production of inoculates to significantly improve the survival, growth and establishment of trees and crops.

M y•cor•rhi•zal - The symbiotic association of the mycelium of a fungus with the roots of a seed plant.

Nitrosomonas Bacteria
Species of aerobic bacteria which converts ammonia to nitrite. One of the critical bacteria in nitrogen cycle. Optimum pH range between 6.0 and 9.0, temperature 10oC - 34oC. Will acclimate to changes in water quality, but activity is reduced during acclimation which can lead to a build up of ammonia.
Nitrosomonas eat ammonia, they absolutely LOVE it. They Convert plant available ammonium (NH4) to unavailable nitrite (NO2).

Nitrobacteria
These bacteria convert the nitrite (NO2) resulting from the nitrification above into nitrate (NO3-), an important form of Nitrogen that all plants need.

Streptomyces
Bacteria that secrete a variety of compounds including antibiotics that prevent and control root zone pathogens. A closely related species of Streptomyces produces the antibiotic that we use, streptomycin. Many studies demonstrate the bacteria’s effectiveness at controlling root diseases, and select foliar diseases. An interesting consideration noted in one study is that they will also reduce levels of some nitrogen fixing bacteria in the soil.

Trichoderma
Some species of fungi that parasitize other fungi, such as Trichoderma, have been observed physically attacking and destroying pathogenic fungi. Strains of Trichoderma are found naturally occurring in many soils can play a role in the prevention and control of root pathogens, ultimately providing a healthier soil environment which can lead to higher yields. Some research suggests that the proteins in Trichoderma can degrade chitin, which is a structural component found in pathogenic fungi such as powdery mildew and in insects.

Some innovative propagation materials are inoculated with strains of Trichoderma.Many forms of coco coir contain it naturally. CANNA's Coco Growing Media is innoculated with it. If a healthy root environment is maintained, the bacteria will continue to colonize the roots and multiply in the growing media. The trichoderma help to form a protective layer around the root system, helping to fend off invading pathogens, etc.


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Root Health and Pathogen Control

In hydroponics we can promote a plant's rhizosphere capability by insuring it has the proper minerals, as well as a well aerated root zone to allow for good air and water movement . We also suggest using an organic amendment like Liquid Karma as well as a general enzymatic product like Hygrozyme or SensiZym from Advanced Nutrients that will encourage the proliferation of healthy rhizosphere microbes. You may also wish to use a root stimulator / stress reliever like CANNA Rhizotonic. It is a powerful, organic stress-reliever which stimulates new root development, increases resistance against disease and improves the vigour of plants.

Most root pathogens seem to be opportunistic -that is, they take advantage of weak and/or damaged roots. Thus the best defense is to keep roots healthy in the first place. In the beginning of this FAQ we went over some of the basics, those being temperature and oxygenation. We can also add a silica to the nutrient solution such as Silica Blast. Silica has been shown to greatly reduce plant death, root decay and yield losses caused by root disease. It does this by fortifying plant tissues against attack. The disease may still be present, but it is not able to do damage.

It has been found by numerous studies that plant roots colonized by a mixture of different bacterial and fungal species, are far more resistant to pathogenic attack. Mycorrhizal fungi form an impenetrable physical barrier on the surface of plant roots, varying in thickness, density and fungal species, according to the plant species, plant health and soil conditions. Ideally the beneficial microbes out-compete pathogenic species and form a protective layer on the surface of living plant roots. In soil it is usually only when the beneficial species of bacteria and fungi are killed by continuous soil disturbance and toxic chemicals that pathogenic species have an advantage.





Using Good Microbes to fight the Bad Ones

There are a slew of new beneficial microbial products on the market, and they have a variety of effects ranging from breaking down nitrogen into useable forms to cleaning the roots to warding off negative microbiological pathogens. These good microbes also activate, enrich and stimulate the roots - they help to create beautiful fuzzy white root growth like you have never seen before.

The new array of products on the market can be confusing an misleading. We only sell products that we are familiar with and have personal experience with. Here are some of what we think are best.

Earth Ambrosia / Earth Nectar: a two-part mycorrhizal fungi innoculant - in liquid form

Down to earth mycorrhizal root innoculant: in powdered form for soil or coco

Piranha Piranha colonizes the root zone with 26 beneficial fungi (in powder form for hydro)

Tarrantula Bacterial blend of 57 microorganisms, with 1.4 billion Colony Forming Units per gram

Voodoo juice Liquid solution consisting of five strains of bacterial microbes, one is a nitrogen fixer

Botanicare Hydroguard Water treatment and pathogen suppressor made of four beneficial bacteria: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.


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The Other Route: Keeping the Reservoir Sterile

Some would argue that one of the strengths of hydroponics is its sterile environment, and the notion of exposing growing systems to bacterial and fungal organisms would be self-defeating, if not sacrilegious. These growers rely on sterile growing environments, strong disinfectants and a product like SM-90. Another option is Hydrogen Peroxide. Each of these offer their own protection and benefits. But NEITHER SM-90 or Hydrogen Peroxide works well with organic additives in the reservoir. They do not work well together and SM-90 has also been known to react poorly with Superthrive.

In a sterile growing environment, your goal is to have a super clean reservoir. This is harder than it sounds. Folks who have been growing in the same area with the same equipment for years might find that they are suddenly having root problems when they never had them before. Or a new grower might begin having problems right from the beginning.

Keeping your reservoir totally sterile can work very well, but once you get a population of icky badness it will keep coming back again and again. Some pathogens such as pythium are almost impossible to get rid of completely. No matter how many times you sterilize everything with a bleach solution, the problem returns. It can get very frustrating and expensive to constantly be battling. More and more innovative growers are moving toward a more holistic approach of using good microbes in the reservoir.



Root Rot and Pythium

"Root rot" is a generic name for several common opportunistic waterborne diseases that can seriously affect indoor and outdoor crops year round. "Pythium" is the name of one of these diseases and is also used as a generic term for several different root rot and stem rot fungus species (including Pythium, Verticillium, and Phytophthora, and Fusarium). The term “damping-off” is also often used and usually applies to disease in seeds, seedlings and clones.

Whatever you call them, these diseases attack the roots of a plant and can rapidly infect crops in all stages. Damage includes reduced yields and crop failure. Pythium is particularly damaging in recirculating hydroponic systems as they provide ideal conditions for rapid growth and spread of infectious spores; a single infected plant can breed and send spores to all the plants.
The best thing is to prevent root rot from ever taking hold in the first place. It is an opportunistic disease which means that it is looking for sick, injured or weakened plants. Pythium is almost impossible to 100% eradicate from an infected system; this involves starting completely over (with new parents, containers, equipment, etc). It is probably present even if you don't know it - just waiting for its chance to get in.

“The best preventative measure against Pythium attack is a healthy, rapidly growing plant as this is an opportunist pathogen and will enter at the site of tissue injury or if the plants are overly succulent, weakened or stressed for some reason. Often root damage during the seedling stage as plants are introduced to the hydroponic system is a danger time for Pythium infection. Pythium is of greatest threat during the seed germination and seedling development stage when plants are most vulnerable to attack, and adequate control and elimination of the pathogen during this stage is the best preventative measure of Pythium control in hydroponic systems. Strong healthy plants will develop resistance to Pythium attack during the seedling stage and this will prevent problems at a later stage of growth. “

Dr. Lynette Morgan, Growing Edge Magazine
"Nutrient Temperature, Oxygen and Pythium in Hydroponics"t http://www.hydromall.com/grower/pyth...droponics.html

How to Avoid a bad case of Root Rot
Monitor plants and roots frequently
Maintain a clean system – change and sterilize reservoir weekly.
Design your system to combat pathogens
keep your nutrient reservoir between 68 and 72F to maximize root growth, Dissolved Oxygen levels and inhibition of Pythium. 80 degrees and above will bring on a fast case of root rot.
Constant aeration – maintaining high dissolved oxygen levels inhibits pathogens and accelerates root growth
keep a lid on your reservoir to keep plant matter and light out
Maintain a low pH of 6.2 or less to inhibit pythium growth

Use prevention!! Use tank additives to give your roots the edge they need to grow strong and healthy!! Check out the Roots and Prevention section.


Bacterial slime and other horrifying nasties

These are not the beneficial bacteria and fungi that we have already spoken about. These bacteria cause cloudy reservoirs, slimy build up, weird reservoir fuzz, gelatin growths and wild pH fluctuations. These are the reservoir monsters.
When these bad microbes are present at high populations and are happily feeding on organic matter, they use up just about all the oxygen in the nutrient solution, suffocating the plants. They release toxic substances as a byproduct of their life cycle. They also suppress the good microbes at the root zone and cause problems with nutrient uptake and plant growth.

Bacteria slime and cloudy reservoirs
Bacteria can make the water cloudy, but tend to produce more of a slime or jellylike, smelly mass in the system.If you have it, you will notice slimy reservoir walls and perhaps an oily slick on the water. Another symptom can be a foamy buildup in the reservoir. If left to their own devices, these bacterial growths will smother the roots, depriving them of oxygen. Some species of anaerobic bacteria thrive in an environment deprived of oxygen and can produce chemical metabolites, such as alcohols, aldehydes, phenols and ethylene, that are toxic to plant roots and to other microorganisms.

Other symptoms of bacterial infections can be fuzzy, cotton like growths, or the growth of fur. Just in case you are wondering, that white fuzzy growth you see at the tip of your roots is desirable. That is not bacteria - That is the good stuff - you should see tiny fine white hairs at the roots.

All of these nasties require organic matter to feed on. They may be there as the result of a buildup of dead roots and leaves in the root zone, but usually they are the result of adding an organic product to the reservoir. If the conditions are just right, the bacteria will begin to thrive.

One option is to use no organic additives at all and to rely strictly on chemical nutrients based on fertilizer salts. We think a better choice is to continue using organic material, but also using an enzymatic additive like Hygrozyme that will break down the unwanted organic matter in the reservoir . If you would like to use additives such as bat guano, compost or fish-based products, you might consider run to waste instead of a recirculating system.


What to do if you have a bacterial or fungal infection

You will want to completely clean out your system - if you can, you should remove each plant, rinse it off, perhaps even dip it in an H202 solution. You should trim off any dead roots. you should then clean your entire system using a strong bleach or h202 solution. We suggest soaking everything in bleach for a few hours. You will definitely want to soak your pump and any tubing in bleach. Make sure you rinse everything very well before putting the plants back in .

If your plants are damaged, you might want to run the nutrient solution at a lower concentration than usual. We highly recommend using an enzymatic additive such as Hygrozyme. . You should also run a stress relief additive like CANNA Rhizotonic. We always suggest using Liquid Karma , but if your problem is real bad, you might want to lay off the organics a little bit.

While your roots are really hurting, you may want to foliar feed your plants with Nitrozime or Dutch Master If you haven't already, you should read the section above about inoculating your system with good microbes.

Keep an eye on your reservoir. Be prepared to clean it out regularly, as soon as any sign of a infections (cloudy water or wild pH fluctuations) occur.

Remember IT IS MUCH EASIER TO PREVENT a pathogenic attack than it is to deal with it once it has occurred!
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Well kudos for finding and fixing the problem. I'm still waiting to buy some more carbon filters to take the chlloramines out of my water so I go use beneficials.
 

frogster

Active Member

I mixed up 4gallons of Tea... I added the EWC (worm casting soil) to a long sock with a bit of hydroton and the airstone... I figured the hydroton would act like a little house for them to hang out in... My reservoir looks fairly clean after I put in about 5oz of 30%h202,, plants look happy,, no slime on roots... But as soon as 48hrs is up, I'm dumping and putting in the "B" team... I cant wait to see how the plants react...​
Attached Thumbnails
 

frogster

Active Member
FORMULA Per 2gal......... Aquashield 15-30ml.(botonicare), 1/4-1/2 of the small scoop of ZHO powder(botonicare), Handful of EWC ( worm poop soil for those that dont know, i didn't until I got it home!) 1tablespoon of unsterilized molasses ... .. Air bubble the hell out of it for 48hrs for best colony growth. doesnt need light ,, just a cool to warm area, putting a lid on is fine as they do not require photosynthesis .. Add one cup Tea for each gallon in rez.. Then 1-2 cups every 3days. leftover colonized formula may be stored up to 10days max in the refrigerator... If it smells bad, discard and make a fresh batch.
 

frogster

Active Member
Hey Legal, i suppose my staying up to 5:30a.m did pay off,,, I swear I read a minimum of 3-5 hrs a day.. sometimes more...My ph has been solid, my ppm are going down 20-30 a day along with the water... I suppose something likes the nutes.. I bumped it 100ppm till tomorrow afternoon (720) Then i will do a cleaning&refill ,,,, Heres a little Sumthin" Sumpthin" from Wiki about your Chloramines : Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the google. You can also get rid of chloramines with a granulated activated carbon filter. Its a higher grade medical type filter. I am going to use three in a row as residence time for the water/carbon is important for breaking the chlorine/amonia bond and then absorbing both the free chlorine and amonia. Soo many god damn details to grow stellar bud.
 

frogster

Active Member
Yes,, Lots of knowledge required to grow Good/excellent top shelf MMJ... So much crap out there, I have seen it even at MMj dispensaries... ( I helped set up a distribution system for someone in the mmj industry, and have seen a lot of nightmare grow rooms that dispensaries are doing) Plants are loving the nutrient increase... No signs of slime anywhere, but I will add my microbe army tomorrow.. I'm not going to dump the rez and clean out... Hell that's what I created the microbes for! I raised the lights,,, I believe teh earlier pics of the leaf that was yellowing was the beginning of light burn, prob, added with a few other nute deficiency... Looks like new growth is starting in the claw plants and it looks straight, will know more tomorrow,,,, Merry Christmas...
 

frogster

Active Member
Just released the ARMY of microbes... Took the ppm from 720 to 800,, They are still taking nutes 20ppm a day.... Heres pics of the plants and the ooze... yes that's a sock covered in good yuck stuff... ..
 

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frogster

Active Member
I think I'm going to put the screen 14"-16" over the bucket top... That would leave up to 30"- 32" past the screen to my max light height (1000watters on a light rail)... any opinions on that?,,, It would leave plenty of room for tall bud stretch (up to 20" stretch would leave 12"-14" over canopy, I would love 20"buds!!!) How high will they stretch up from the screen? guess it depends on strain? ... I don't have heat issues... Thx for your reply's... Frogster ps. Ladies are loving the 800ppm. Raised buckets with boards .. Taking 20-30ppm a day! Hungry little biotches...
 

frogster

Active Member
Correction, those were early numbers... They took in 40ppm and 4gal in 24hrs... 4x 15min flooding a day.(six times seemed too much, but they weren't growing like they are now). thinking of upping flooding time to 30 min as it takes a bit for the system to flood 30 pots. .. Your opinion?... other than that, Looks like things are dialed in,, they are really taking off! On the top off I raised to the magic 850ppm, Looking forward to opinions on the screen height and stretch amount....
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I would go with 14" screen height. If left alone and not trained, the plants will double in size during the stretch and then add a couple more inches in the week or two after that. There is pretty much no more vertical growth after week 4. It really depends on how much canopy space each plant is occupying and how much screen space you have. I pretty much doubled the canopy size during the stretch. I pulled them down under for about 7-8 days and then let them go. They didn't grow a whole lot in days 8-12 and the buds are all about 4-5" above the screen.

This time around I am going to let them go a little earlier so that they grow above the screen more. This way all the stems are completely vertical so the flowers will join together to make one solid bud and not get caught on the screen. In addition, I am employing a little different training this time to maximize both larger and more evenly sized buds.

After I FIM I get around 6-7 growing shoots but one large stem usually starts to dominate again after about a week. I am LSTing this primary stem to distribute growth hormone and bulk up the rest of the stems. I untie the top after about 5 days. Working pretty good so far as my plants in veg are very even and have thick stems.
 
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