Universal Basic Income; 'bout time or batshit crazy?

[ttystikk]

In part, because of an internal U.S. Air Force report that alleged the F-35 had difficulty outmaneuvering an F-16, the F-35 joint strike fighter has built a reputation that it isn’t effective within visual ranges. But on June 19 at the Paris Air Show, pilots said the upcoming flight demo this afternoon would dispel all notions that the jet can be handily beat by fourth generation fighters.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/air-force-lockheed-aim-to-prove-f-35-critics-wrong-in-demo-at-paris-air-show

What they won't show off are the UCAVs, unmanned combat air vehicles. These will do everything the JSF does and without a pilot they can turn even harder, a critical advantage in a dogfight.

 

[esh dov ets]

It was my understanding that all adults and children in the house contributed to the net UBI amount.

I suppose you could exclude the children and keep welfare in place, Id have to see the numbers but it would probably be relatively the same.

i'm not sure what you are referring to but ssi ssdi recipients will usually get the max amounts and there is wic and other programs. as well as workers at the welfare office being more willing to help. if children effect ubi , that would make sense. I don't see how that changes the laws of fairness. if i make 1600 a mo. rent is 1200 for a one bed. food is 300 a mo. gas , phone, classes, disposables, hygiene , utilities, ect. with my last 100 lmao. now you bring in another person with similar income. e can split the rent. so now we can can catch up on bills; maybe buy new clothes. add a kid and we need a 2 bed. now we got less money and our clothes budget and our date night budget turns into an inadequate baby budget.
Do you see a cannabis budget or a medicine budget or a night out budget. i don't. in fact i see extreme budgeting, reliance on help. or is homelessness and a downward spiral .
want to take away debt from trying to lead a semblance of a normal life. gonna need that Assistance.
only people who can't work get ssi or di, the take money back as you earn if you can. so $900 a mo. doesn't cut bread.
if you earn , you don't qualify for ga gr or unemployment.
say you manage 2000 a mo. that's a wage you can rent a 1 bed and budget a little life . a meager living. can't buy new cars or homes but with help you can raise a kid poor.
what is your argument about augmenting ubi based on kids or marriage???

 

[SneekyNinja]

i'm not sure what you are referring to but ssi ssdi recipients will usually get the max amounts and there is wic and other programs. as well as workers at the welfare office being more willing to help. if children effect ubi , that would make sense. I don't see how that changes the laws of fairness. if i make 1600 a mo. rent is 1200 for a one bed. food is 300 a mo. gas , phone, classes, disposables, hygiene , utilities, ect. with my last 100 lmao. now you bring in another person with similar income. e can split the rent. so now we can can catch up on bills; maybe buy new clothes. add a kid and we need a 2 bed. now we got less money and our clothes budget and our date night budget turns into an inadequate baby budget.
Do you see a cannabis budget or a medicine budget or a night out budget. i don't. in fact i see extreme budgeting, reliance on help. or is homelessness and a downward spiral .
want to take away debt from trying to lead a semblance of a normal life. gonna need that Assistance.
only people who can't work get ssi or di, the take money back as you earn if you can. so $900 a mo. doesn't cut bread.
if you earn , you don't qualify for ga gr or unemployment.
say you manage 2000 a mo. that's a wage you can rent a 1 bed and budget a little life . a meager living. can't buy new cars or homes but with help you can raise a kid poor.
what is your argument about augmenting ubi based on kids or marriage???

I'm pretty sure if you're claiming hypothetical UBI you're not supposed to be living it up.

It's a Universal Basic Income, not a "You don't ever have to work again but you can have a new car, nice place and loads of nights out".

That's crazy talk, do you live in reality?

 

[esh dov ets]

I'm pretty sure if you're claiming hypothetical UBI you're not supposed to be living it up.

It's a Universal Basic Income, not a "You don't ever have to work again but you can have a new car, nice place and loads of nights out".

That's crazy talk, do you live in reality?

WHERE do you get living it up from budgeting necessitys???
WHERE the HELL do you get "You don't ever have to work again but you can have a new car, nice place and loads of nights out".????
if you read what i wrote, it takes more than an average working class income to LIVE without serious debt or help.
nights out or a hobby is basic for leading a normal life. Part of living is making friends, networking and finding a mate. No one is going to be buying a new car or house with ubi. i just said that the poor, can't afford to even think about it; which is unfair. but i would be fucked if i needed another car right now. transpo costs min 1500 for a used car. it will need work. plus regular maintenance plus insurance=min 2000 +smog + 500-600 insurance a year. Kids are basic to life. i can't afford one right now. ubi would get me to an actual class. i am way below poverty.
sneeker pimp , you obviously are out of touch with the working class and the under class.

 

[esh dov ets]

see you spoiled rich kids, think that black people are going to go buy steak and redo the decks at home, with general assistance money. the reality is that people buy some vegetables for a change and pay bills with that money. meanwhile you walk by homeless people ;to go buy lobster for your family and talk about the bothersome poor and ," economic growth, while the poor get poorer.
fuck ninjas , bloody useless assassins. never had a bad thing happen to ya.

 

[ttystikk]

WHERE do you get living it up from budgeting necessitys???
WHERE the HELL do you get "You don't ever have to work again but you can have a new car, nice place and loads of nights out".????
if you read what i wrote, it takes more than an average working class income to LIVE without serious debt or help.
nights out or a hobby is basic for leading a normal life. Part of living is making friends, networking and finding a mate. No one is going to be buying a new car or house with ubi. i just said that the poor, can't afford to even think about it; which is unfair. but i would be fucked if i needed another car right now. transpo costs min 1500 for a used car. it will need work. plus regular maintenance plus insurance=min 2000 +smog + 500-600 insurance a year. Kids are basic to life. i can't afford one right now. ubi would get me to an actual class. i am way below poverty.
sneeker pimp , you obviously are out of touch with the working class and the under class.

Truth. @Lucky Luke has been discussing how Australia deals with this issue, and I hope he stops by here to lend his perspective.

We wouldn't need a UBI if workers actually got a decent paycheck.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Truth. @Lucky Luke has been discussing how Australia deals with this issue, and I hope he stops by here to lend his perspective.

We wouldn't need a UBI if workers actually got a decent paycheck.

Its like banging your head against a brick wall with some people. They just argue every fkn point to death, talk about Big Macs??? and say it cannot work....even when it does...It may not be perfect but its something..

 

[ttystikk]

Its like banging your head against a brick wall with some people. They just argue every fkn point to death, talk about Big Macs??? and say it cannot work....even when it does...It may not be perfect but its something..

The American exceptionalism brainwashing is thick with some people.

 

[SneekyNinja]

WHERE do you get living it up from budgeting necessitys???
WHERE the HELL do you get "You don't ever have to work again but you can have a new car, nice place and loads of nights out".????
if you read what i wrote, it takes more than an average working class income to LIVE without serious debt or help.
nights out or a hobby is basic for leading a normal life. Part of living is making friends, networking and finding a mate. No one is going to be buying a new car or house with ubi. i just said that the poor, can't afford to even think about it; which is unfair. but i would be fucked if i needed another car right now. transpo costs min 1500 for a used car. it will need work. plus regular maintenance plus insurance=min 2000 +smog + 500-600 insurance a year. Kids are basic to life. i can't afford one right now. ubi would get me to an actual class. i am way below poverty.
sneeker pimp , you obviously are out of touch with the working class and the under class.

UBI is meant to cover the most basic of existence...

You're supposed to work on top of it if you want to have nice things, that's the point.

 

[666888]

Yeah give me some free shit, what's another 20trillion

 

[Lucky Luke]

and with our min wage in Australia vs America we ended up discovery in another thread that:


So we have a Scotch fillet steak which is more expensive here than there.

We have Lamb that is cheaper here than there (im assuming as nobody said otherwise)

We have Milk and bread that is the same price. (which is the BIG one as its a staple)

We have a Big Mac that is 20% smaller but also 20% cheaper so the same price in reality.

And we have a higher min wage (double or more for adults) with penalty rates and allowances. Sounds like our children under 18 get paid more than your adults...


So a higher min wage does not make goods more expensive..especially on staple food items.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Australia is a very socially aware culture. We supply a decent unemployment benefit of $500 a fortnight for a single person and $450 for a couple plus added perks. Old age pensions at $890 a fortnight and couples $ 1300 plus added perks. This helps stop people falling through the cracks.

We also pay our solders are very nice wage, as they should be and a generous tax free pension that is payable no matter their income in private life. I couldnt find the current rates of pay but in 2014 it was: "Under the current pay scheme, a non-commissioned soldier in the Australian Army earns about $59,500 annually (including uniform and service allowances). A mid-ranking infantry officer takes home around $84,000".
My Dad was in Vietnam for two tours and his pension is currently $1400 per fortnight plus perks (he has been receiving a pension since the end of the Vietnam war on top of his occupational salaries.

No Australian would mind paying a few bucks extra every week so that old people can have some money to live on and hopefully some extra to spend in the local community nor begrudge a solders right to a decent income and pension.

Is it perfect? Nope.




Min wage and a min income for anybody linked to inflation is a good thing. It helps protect those who are unable to protect themselves. People spending money drives economies.

 

[esh dov ets]

Yeah give me some free shit, what's another 20trillion

THEY CAN AFFORD IT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
http://newatlas.com/go/6571/
They can't afford not to.
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/7/20/1112142/-Forget-the-top-1-percent-Let-s-talk-about-the-bottom-50-percent-for-a-minute
http://www.mybudget360.com/percent-of-total-wealth-owned-in-the-united-states-bottom-40-control-0-9-meaning-close-to-half-the-united-states/

unless they think they will survive a war with at least half the population.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/09/raising-taxes-poor-rich-wealth-gap-bottom-50-percent-top-1-percent_n_955476.html

 

[Padawanbater2]

Yeah give me some free shit, what's another 20trillion

Most of that debt was accrued from running an American empire that includes 900 military bases across the globe, giving unprecidented tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations, and bailing out financial institutions that crashed the global economy by defrauding poor and middle-class Americans

The corporate-class has been running a redistribution of wealth scheme since the 1980s from the bottom to the top by buying politicians who will vote for their business interests. The results are catastrophic for poor and middle-class Americans. It's time those people have had their interests taken care of, after all, isn't that what our elected officials are supposed to do? A UBI is the least we could do, but, as Bernie Sanders says, the United States is not a compassionate country.

It's funny, when you mention 'survival of the fittest' in the science classroom, conservatives shun it, but when you head over to the economics class, survival of the fittest is the conservative mantra, straight from Ayn Rand's mouth

 

[ttystikk]

Most of that debt was accrued from running an American empire that includes 900 military bases across the globe, giving unprecidented tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations, and bailing out financial institutions that crashed the global economy by defrauding poor and middle-class Americans

The corporate-class has been running a redistribution of wealth scheme since the 1980s from the bottom to the top by buying politicians who will vote for their business interests. The results are catastrophic for poor and middle-class Americans. It's time those people have had their interests taken care of, after all, isn't that what our elected officials are supposed to do? A UBI is the least we could do, but, as Bernie Sanders says, the United States is not a compassionate country.

It's funny, when you mention 'survival of the fittest' in the science classroom, conservatives shun it, but when you head over to the economics class, survival of the fittest is the conservative mantra, straight from Ayn Rand's mouth

All true, here's an article that helps illustrate actual digital mobility vs perceived social mobility;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/06/americans-tolerate-inequality-estimate-odds-coming-top.html

Americans are brainwashed optimists, ask the more so because our social mobility is actually LOWER than the other nations mentioned.

 

[Lucky Luke]

All true, here's an article that helps illustrate actual digital mobility vs perceived social mobility;

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/06/americans-tolerate-inequality-estimate-odds-coming-top.html

Americans are brainwashed optimists, ask the more so because our social mobility is actually LOWER than the other nations mentioned.

Thats a really good article, Ive watched or read something like this before.
It explains why the biggest obstacle of helping the poor and the working poor is themselves. The biggest detractors of a livable min wage is in fact those that would benefit from it.

The Middle class seem to think that they are doing OK and are scared that the lower class may earn more or have better toys if given an opportunity. Kinda like a reverse "Keeping up with the Jones's".
"How dare he earn nearly as much as me, he is only a *insert perceived lower class job*"

 

[ttystikk]

Thats a really good article, Ive watched or read something like this before.
It explains why the biggest obstacle of helping the poor and the working poor is themselves. The biggest detractors of a livable min wage is in fact those that would benefit from it.

The Middle class seem to think that they are doing OK and are scared that the lower class may earn more or have better toys if given an opportunity. Kinda like a reverse "Keeping up with the Jones's".
"How dare he earn nearly as much as me, he is only a *insert perceived lower class job*"

The saddest part of this whole thing is that more money in the hands of workers means a better economy because more people can buy more goods and services.

 

[Padawanbater2]

The Middle class seem to think that they are doing OK and are scared that the lower class may earn more or have better toys if given an opportunity. Kinda like a reverse "Keeping up with the Jones's".
"How dare he earn nearly as much as me, he is only a *insert perceived lower class job*"

Where do you believe this rationale originates within the poor and middle-classes?

 

[ttystikk]

Where do you believe this rationale originates within the poor and middle-classes?

That's an excellent question.

Answer it and we can change the paradigm of American politics.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Where do you believe this rationale originates within the poor and middle-classes?

Good Question...

Perhaps due to the fact its human nature to think we are better than someone else. Especially someone who is different from our culture, religious beliefs and class? Class these days would maybe be occupational status?. Eg, Receptionist would think they are better than a Waitress. Salesman would think their better than a Lawn contractor.
In truth as people the occupation has no meaning, But we like to think it does.

The rich dont have a occupational status..they have their Name and net worth??