Universal Basic Income; 'bout time or batshit crazy?

SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Justin-case said:
Yep absolutely, I was clued in after what happened in Kansas when the governor cut small business taxes. I forget the exact numbers, but it was something like a three hundred million dollar surplus to a fifty million dollar deficit?
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You mean Corporate taxes?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Justin-case said:
It's the principle, they want their slave class. I really do not know, but often wonder that same thing. I think most of us realize that the entrepreneurs that run small businesses are the biggest drivers of our economy, and best represent the American dream/ reality.
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I disagree that most Americans realize this fact, or that they derive many benefits from small business people and entrepreneurs.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-chart-spells-out-in-black-and-white-just-how-many-jobs-will-be-lost-to-robots-2017-05-31?mod=mw_share_facebook
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This story has been circulating the interwebs for months now. America has lost 90% of its farming jobs. 85% of its mining jobs. Most of its manufacturing jobs. And yet there's enough jobs that have replaced them for there to be nearly full employment today- and if our economy were less burdened by the rentseeking behavior of the rich and mega corporations, there would be more jobs than people to fill them.

The same will be true of the labor automation era- which frankly started a century ago and is simply proceeding.

The blather going around the web these days is simple scare mongering, designed to frighten the proletariat into being grateful for what they have instead of showing for a better standard of living.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
no, it's inevitable. if the workers owned the businesses, people would just have to work less; meaning more time for the rest of life and personal work. with no modifications to capitalism, automation will mean less jobs, in an economy that is already outsourcing cheaper labor. Industries die or change. The income gaps continue to grow. There is already a throw away class that is getting larger.
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
i didn't realize it was an old article. didn't even read all of it.
Even with "enough jobs" ,, they don't pay well enough. the cost of living increases always counter act the incongruent pay raises. People need a boost and it should not replace welfare.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
no, it's inevitable. if the workers owned the businesses, people would just have to work less; meaning more time for the rest of life and personal work. with no modifications to capitalism, automation will mean less jobs, in an economy that is already outsourcing cheaper labor. Industries die or change. The income gaps continue to grow. There is already a throw away class that is getting larger.
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What amazes me is how well the lower classes put up with being treated this way.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
i didn't realize it was an old article. didn't even read all of it.
Even with "enough jobs" ,, they don't pay well enough. the cost of living increases always counter act the incongruent pay raises. People need a boost and it should not replace welfare.
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The rich and major corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes on a progressive scale, not a regressive one.

Our nation will continue to sink until this changes, no matter how big our military budget gets or how many protesters, foreign or domestic, we abuse and denigrate.
 
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SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
i didn't realize it was an old article. didn't even read all of it.
Even with "enough jobs" ,, they don't pay well enough. the cost of living increases always counter act the incongruent pay raises. People need a boost and it should not replace welfare.
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Why would people need welfare if they're getting UBI?
 
esh dov ets

esh dov ets

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Why would people need welfare if they're getting UBI?
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Glad you asked.
UBI is meant as a supplement to your income. 10 per hour times 8 hours times 5 days a week times four weeks is $1600 mo.
ssi or ssdi is about $900 a mo. before deductions for over payments or work income. some disabled people can get both ; so $1800 mo.
General Assistance or General Relief(depending on the area) gives less than $500 mo. with half in food stamp credit. you cannot get GR or GA AND ssi or ssdi and you may be required to pay back GR and GA. each program pays less depending on the state.
so if ubi starts at $1000 that's rent in some places, not even rent here. that gives the avg worker $1000 + $1600 = now we can have a better life style or quality of life. why should it be any different for the disabled?
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The rich and major corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes on a progressive scale, not a regressive one.

Our nation will continue to sink until this changes, no matter how big our military budget gets or how many protesters, foreign or domestic, we abuse and denigrate.
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Here you are crying about how unfair it is.

You asked me to be honest.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The rich and major corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes on a progressive scale, not a regressive one.

Our nation will continue to sink until this changes, no matter how big our military budget gets or how many protesters, foreign or domestic, we abuse and denigrate.
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You were doing better using morality based arguments to decry USA foreign aggression. Stick with that, you were making sense.

Your understanding of the unintended consequences of a nanny managed economy is almost as imbecilic as the imbecile Bernie.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
esh dov ets said:
Glad you asked.
UBI is meant as a supplement to your income. 10 per hour times 8 hours times 5 days a week times four weeks is $1600 mo.
ssi or ssdi is about $900 a mo. before deductions for over payments or work income. some disabled people can get both ; so $1800 mo.
General Assistance or General Relief(depending on the area) gives less than $500 mo. with half in food stamp credit. you cannot get GR or GA AND ssi or ssdi and you may be required to pay back GR and GA. each program pays less depending on the state.
so if ubi starts at $1000 that's rent in some places, not even rent here. that gives the avg worker $1000 + $1600 = now we can have a better life style or quality of life. why should it be any different for the disabled?
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It was my understanding that all adults and children in the house contributed to the net UBI amount.

I suppose you could exclude the children and keep welfare in place, Id have to see the numbers but it would probably be relatively the same.
 
Hoare

Hoare

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Paying off every student loan outstanding would cost $1.4 trillion. That sounds enormous, and it is- but the total cost of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter boondoggle is already projected to be $1.5 trillion, and counting.

The fighter will never work, and all those students already do. So which one is the better investment?
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In part, because of an internal U.S. Air Force report that alleged the F-35 had difficulty outmaneuvering an F-16, the F-35 joint strike fighter has built a reputation that it isn’t effective within visual ranges. But on June 19 at the Paris Air Show, pilots said the upcoming flight demo this afternoon would dispel all notions that the jet can be handily beat by fourth generation fighters.

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/air-force-lockheed-aim-to-prove-f-35-critics-wrong-in-demo-at-paris-air-show
 
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