Would this country(USA) be better off as two?

TheBrutalTruth said:

Nice to see that liberals can respond honestly to the propaganda their side pushes. Militaristic and Cruel... oh yeah, I was just one of those evil little kids that loved tearing the wings off of poor defenseless insects, and lopping the legs off of cute little bunny rabbits to watch them hop around in cute little bloody circles.

Give me a break, what a crock of horse shit.

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Funny stuff. First you say liberals have no spine, next you are equating us with John Wayne Gacy. Seems like you can't really decide which liberal best fits your current view. I'd say we're both capable of unspeakable things, things such as I saw in Nam, and our boys are experiencing on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghanistan. Being a liberal has nothing to do with ones ability to pick up a gun and do the necessary thing. It depends on reaction to circumstance. Like if you point a gun at me and you're not LEO, you had better pull the trigger. Otherwise, things might not turn out the way you imagined them. At this point in my life, I have very little fear of death. If it comes, oh well, I've lived a long and mostly happy life. Things could have been better, but they sure as hell could have been a lot worse. If say my family was attacked and killed by a bunch of right wing whackos and I survived. You can rest assured I'd be looking for right wing whackos to off.

medicineman said:

Funny stuff. First you say liberals have no spine, next you are equating us with John Wayne Gacy. Seems like you can't really decide which liberal best fits your current view. I'd say we're both capable of unspeakable things, things such as I saw in Nam, and our boys are experiencing on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghanistan. Being a liberal has nothing to do with ones ability to pick up a gun and do the necessary thing. It depends on reaction to circumstance. Like if you point a gun at me and you're not LEO, you had better pull the trigger. Otherwise, things might not turn out the way you imagined them. At this point in my life, I have very little fear of death. If it comes, oh well, I've lived a long and mostly happy life. Things could have been better, but they sure as hell could have been a lot worse. If say my family was attacked and killed by a bunch of right wing whackos and I survived. You can rest assured I'd be looking for right wing whackos to off.

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I think I later argued that character traits are not inherent to just one side or the other. Their are crazy religious nut jobs on both sides (environmentalists on the left, and fundamentalist Christians on the right.)

There's also idiots on both sides, McCain, Obama, Bush, FDR, Wilson, Nixon, LBJ, Bush Sr...

Most of Congress, and everyone in the senate. Idiots on both sides.

TheBrutalTruth said:

And lets not forget that assholes in both parties that want to strip away more and more of everyone's freedoms. (Especially those crazy religious environmentalists)

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now you are getting it! there are asholes everywhere! they are the little bit of yin in the yang and vice versa. every group has assholes in them!

FootballFirst said:

now you are getting it! there are asholes everywhere! they are the little bit of yin in the yang and vice versa. every group has assholes in them!

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I got it along time ago. Government is the biggest collection of assholes on the planet, followed by the bar association of each state, and then the state governments.

TheBrutalTruth said:

I got it along time ago. Government is the biggest collection of assholes on the planet, followed by the bar association of each state, and then the state governments.

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OMG! This is such truth. I cant stand either side. Its all a crock of shit.

but we need the assholes. somebody has to keep the civility. necessary evil.

FootballFirst said:

but we need the assholes. somebody has to keep the civility. necessary evil.

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How the hell do the keep civility. Do they actually restrain people from committing theft, murder, rape?

Do police?

Hell, no, police don't bother until a crime has been committed (which isn't necessarily wrong, just proves that they don't prevent crime, which is usually an irrational spur of the moment act.)

Besides, society doesn't need government to tell us what our laws our. We wouldn't be a society if there weren't certain standards of behavior that we agreed on.

Like not being NAZIs. I don't think there's a lot of Americans out there that would suddenly become NAZIs if government vanished, because it's become an accepted more that being racist, bigoted idiots is unacceptable.

Government doesn't offer any benefits to society. They are just the manifestation of society's beliefs, usually the worst ones. Like it's okay to steal if you have a majority that agrees with you.

It's okay to restrict the behaviors that people enjoy, like smoking pot, just because you don't agree with them, or (in the case of cigarettes) you think it's harmful.

Nothing but an entity manipulated by the opinions of the mob, and as the left is always fond of pointing out, "Mob justice is not justice at all."

Or maybe more to the point, minorities should not be punished by the majority. (Of course they only maintain that view when they are the minority in their views.)

There is allot of hate going on right now.

This is not a left or right issue. I consider myself a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I make 32k a year and am not your enemy. All I want is freedom, it is the natural state of man. Don't violate me I will not violate you. Don't steal from me and I will not seek vengeance. Right wing wacko could describe me. And I am not your enemy. I believe the federal Government has overstepped its constitutional boundaries. The constitution is a social contract that says what the government is and is not allowed to do.

We are operating as if we had a democracy we do not. We have a constitutional republic were the wishes of the MINORITY must be protected. If you believe Abortion is murder (for example) why then should you be forced to pay for an abortion. The Answer is you shouldn't.

But many believe that power flows from the government to the people it does not. It flows from the people to the government. And once that power becomes totalitarian dictating what you may or may not do with your body or property or how you must spend the fruit of your labor. It is corrupt be it a democratic president of a republican president.

The problems we are having are systemic. Not based on one group or another but on a system both economic and political. Do not let "them" fool you this is not a race issue, it is not a class issue, it is a freedom issue. If "they" propose that this is an issue of "millionaires" raking in big bucks in speculations in the market, they are misguiding you. As I said the problem is Systemic. People saw their was money to be made and they decided to make it. That is not wrong. That is in fact right and good.

What IS wrong is setting people up to fail with untenable schemes that they believe are relatively safe and then pulling the carpet out from under them to bring about a collapse. This collapse will be used to consolidate power in the hands of the "Elite" The Central Banks. The Criminals in Government through either incompetence or design are poised to be our saviors. Don't be fooled this is the same old song and dance that has been pulled on us for decades.

The System needs to change we need sound money (Gold or Silver as the Constitution Dictates) We need to stop borrowing and return to fiscal responsibility. We need common sence regulations on lending, not fantastical schemes designed to raise home prices and make speculators rich and then steal from people their hard earned wealth. We do not need a North American Union or an Amero. We do not need to register our firearms. We do not need "Universal Voluntary service." We need to stop foreign adventurism. We need a strong economy not welfare. We need to stop believing the Government knows best and force them to be true to our "Founding Documents." In short we must return to the Constitution.

This is going to get worse before it gets better (if it gets better). And if we do not stay true to our Constitution when the SHTF (shit hits the fan) we will end up in a totalitarian regime. Believe it.

This country needs divided into 20 million or so countries. The delusion of nationalism (imaginary lines) is only a few hundred years old but has killed so many. Nation-states may have been appropriate in industrial economies, but those days are long gone.
Freedom is impossible in a grouping of more than 150 people or so.

We need to downsize the government by about 2/3 and instead of voting for people we should just vote for issues. The government was supposed to be for the people, but they've lost sight of that long ago in the name of profits and corporate interests.

We need to STOP paying politicians when they leave office. They can budget and save like the rest of us. They can take their social security reaming just like you and I. If they can't live on what they have, they are welcome to sell off their assets and apply for welfare just like you and I.

We need to get some actual sex education in schools. Telling kids "sex don't do it" isn't cutting it. The teen pregnancy rate cate attest to that. Yes parents should talk to their kids about sex, but in reality we know they don't. Just educating kids about contraception could save a lot of welfare money.

We need to stop shelling out money for services for people who are in this coutry illegally. I hate to be harsh, but damn, I just can't afford it anymore. I'm sorry their country sucks, but dragging us down to ultra suckyness isn't going to make things better. That also goes for people who already have kids they can't afford and then they have more. If you can't afford the kids you have, then you should not be having anymore.

Abolish property taxes. Once we cut all these other expenses we can afford to stop shafting people for property ownership. It's pitiful that people who manage to scrape to buy a home get taxed to death for it. When you weigh the price of property tax against all these forclosures it makes me wonder, had those homeowners not been saddled with that extra expense, would they have been able to make their payments?

Throwing money at the crisis isn't going to fix it. Time to downsize some shit.

FootballFirst said:

"A nation divided against itself cannot stand"

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Do you really understand this quote?
What's the diffrence between a territory and a nation?(hint: world court law)
This answer should lead you to the dirty little secret our beloved constitution holds. Let me ask you this, why replace by force the articles of confederation with the constitution?

America will split, I have no doubt in my mind that's where we came from and headed back to.
example; Cali is sinking like a rock, while montana has a surplus.
I believe not only will states regain sovereignty again, but within states we will we revolt against each other, much like how iraq is upheld or inner city gangs operate.
I for one welcome it!
Please don't worrie about us repubs starting any war with you. we will be way to occupied building walls. I'm sure mexico will love your part. Free money, free healthcare, no personal responsibility and to question anyones actions or lack of, you will be viewed as a racist, sexist and or bigot. We wouldn't have to go to war with the dems, they would impode on themselfs.

Maybe some of us stoners should write out our own plan for saving this sinking ship and send it to Obama. Surely we can work something out that leaves us all satisfied if not happy.

joepro said:

Do you really understand this quote?
What's the diffrence between a territory and a nation?(hint: world court law)
This answer should lead you to the dirty little secret our beloved constitution holds. Let me ask you this, why replace by force the articles of confederation with the constitution?

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I may be the only one, but I don't get the point you are trying to make here. I don't get your allusion to world court of law.

Can you explain further.
This dirty little secret is not revealing itself to me.

FootballFirst said:

I may be the only one, but I don't get the point you are trying to make here. I don't get your allusion to world court of law.

Can you explain further.
This dirty little secret is not revealing itself to me.

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The 'allusion' of world court law: a nation is taxed and none taxed nation is a territory, therefore is not recognized. A nation divided against itself cannot stand.

'no taxation without reputation.'
so what happens when your reputation is for higher taxes? To late to vote them out, they would have already raised taxes and it's constitutionally ok, because you were told beforehand.

The dirty little secret is the constitution is what keeps us in our chains, this is no 'allusion.'
income tax, property tax, sales tax, sin tax, soda tax, bottled water tax, clean air tax, ect ect ect ect ect...
and this new tax thats being talked about, a driving tax. yes, they want to tax you per mile you drive...
and it's as constitutional as freedom of speech, oh that might be a bad example. Voting rights!! no, that's another bad example. you get the point.

it not a dirty little secret. it is pretty out in the open that taxes are needed and are provided for inthe constitution. anybody is free to leave if they don't like it. the needs of the whole supercede the needs of a few. in order to provide such "national" services such as the FDA, dept. of transport., nat'l defense, etc.. a certain amount of taxation is needed.

FootballFirst said:

it not a dirty little secret. it is pretty out in the open that taxes are needed and are provided for inthe constitution. anybody is free to leave if they don't like it. the needs of the whole supercede the needs of a few. in order to provide such "national" services such as the FDA, dept. of transport., nat'l defense, etc.. a certain amount of taxation is needed.

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Oh, you were playing coy?
Um, yea, ok.....
I toss you a football and you headbutt it and kick it back to me?

FDA and nat'defense is laughable to even try and justify.
The last time our nat'l defense was tested, it failed against box cutters.
The FDA is overwhelmed by pea-nuts.
I live in IL, we have I-DOT and a tollway system, I guess I'm lucky enough to pay for both huh?
What national services work? besides the FBI, DEA, ATF and federal prisons.
Are you playing coy again?

i haven't read this thread ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yes not left from right but moderate from radical , draw a line right down the middle . after the right enslaves the left they'll wish they had a hamburger to eat ,