with an f-2 hybred,can you bread aa to bb and get all f1 ab with f1 vigor?

Also, if the original aa plant strain is a male and the bb inversely female.when you bread to f-2 will the 1in4 aa&bb be always aa male & bb female? thanks

I'm sure someone can help you here so ill bump it but you might get more responses in the breeders section.

your Q is kind of hard to understand. im not sure what your asking?.https://www.rollitup.org/breeders-paradise/

ubermench said:

with an f-2 hybred,can you bread aa to bb and get all f1 ab with f1 vigor?

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vigor is only an issue when cutting from clones. Vigor "resets" (for lack of a better word) when you start from seed.

Dan Kone said:

vigor is only an issue when cutting from clones. Vigor "resets" (for lack of a better word) when you start from seed.

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Sort of, F1 hybrids are naturally more vigorous than F2's...

This is called "Hybrid Vigör" right? Does this only occur during the first cross of two different strains? Or does it continue on when to more crossing and backcrossing and what not.

Wolverine97 said:

Sort of, F1 hybrids are naturally more vigorous than F2's...

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Or does this mean no that only the first cross, the f1 generation, will see Hybrid Vigor.

So here's what I'm assuming you're saying:
Father= AA Mother= BB
You cross them to get:
f1: AB
You then bred the f1 to get:
f2: AA AB BB
So you're f3 could consist of a cross between any of the three match ups above, ie
f3[AAxBB]: AB
There are 20 different chromosomes in mj, so finding the one or combination of some (more likely the case) gets tricky. If you do decide to start breeding you're going to need a game plan to follow.

Havent done much breeding but my understand is that hybrid vigor is only the first cross of two f1's - once you cross the two f1's your first batch of seeds are going to be awesome and vigorous in comparison to the parents - now each cross that follows this becomes less and less stable and you get more and more phenotypes untill you have back crossed 20 generations with the original mother, at that point you would have a perfectly stable hybrid,After f2 you have I think in the neighborhood of 250 phenotypes and this number is not back down to 3-4 distinguishable phenotypes until 20 backcrosses? something like that. Serious breeding is very time consuming and requires a very large number of plants to do well, but theres nothing wrong with doing your own seed runs every now and then crossing new f1 plants with other f1's is a great way to have backup seeds for when your clones just wont root.

If you grow say under 200 plants, your best bet is to take your best plants from seed after you have smoked the bud and done serval grows with it and know its what you want to grow, take a clone off it and put it in a huge pot(10 gallon or more), LST and FIM it constantly and veg it for like 3+ months, then clone the crap out of it, you will be able to take 100's of clones like its nothing.

Pretty much, If you don't have 1,000's of plants and have been breeding for 20+ years your an amateur. That is why I only buy my seeds from people matching this criteria.

hybrid vigor is a term used to define a hybrid that outperforms both parents

if your asking whether you can breed a truly stable hybrid that favours one parent than the answer is no...you will always have variance in f-1 and even more in f-2

ubermench said:

Also, if the original aa plant strain is a male and the bb inversely female.when you bread to f-2 will the 1in4 aa&bb be always aa male & bb female? thanks

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The reason an F1 has vigor is because all of the traits are equally present at 50% ratio. The dominant genes are what shows up and recessive genes are hidden. Once you reach the F2 generation all those recessive combinations become possibilities and there will be more phenotypes possible (AA BB AB) The thing is you wouldnt be able to distinguish an AA from Ab because the A being dominant and even if you could, that would be only one set of chromosomes and other pairs could be completely made up of BB genes. Therefore you could never recreat that perfect harmony of AB throughout all chromosome pairs like the F1. The sex of the plant is determined by one set of chromosomes so you could start with an AA male and eventtually get an AA female.

Pipe Dream said:

The reason an F1 has vigor is because all of the traits are equally present at 50% ratio. The dominant genes are what shows up and recessive genes are hidden. Once you reach the F2 generation all those recessive combinations become possibilities and there will be more phenotypes possible (AA BB AB) The thing is you wouldnt be able to distinguish an AA from Ab because the A being dominant and even if you could, that would be only one set of chromosomes and other pairs could be completely made up of BB genes. Therefore you could never recreat that perfect harmony of AB throughout all chromosome pairs like the F1. The sex of the plant is determined by one set of chromosomes so you could start with an AA male and eventtually get an AA female.

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haha you just gave the non lazymans description ....i was way to fucked up lol.....good one !

deprave said:

Havent done much breeding but my understand is that hybrid vigor is only the first cross of two f1's - once you cross the two f1's your first batch of seeds are going to be awesome and vigorous in comparison to the parents - now each cross that follows this becomes less and less stable and you get more and more phenotypes untill you have back crossed 20 generations with the original mother, at that point you would have a perfectly stable hybrid,After f2 you have I think in the neighborhood of 250 phenotypes and this number is not back down to 3-4 distinguishable phenotypes until 20 backcrosses? something like that. Serious breeding is very time consuming and requires a very large number of plants to do well, but theres nothing wrong with doing your own seed runs every now and then crossing new f1 plants with other f1's is a great way to have backup seeds for when your clones just wont root.

If you grow say under 200 plants, your best bet is to take your best plants from seed after you have smoked the bud and done serval grows with it and know its what you want to grow, take a clone off it and put it in a huge pot(10 gallon or more), LST and FIM it constantly and veg it for like 3+ months, then clone the crap out of it, you will be able to take 100's of clones like its nothing.

Pretty much, If you don't have 1,000's of plants and have been breeding for 20+ years your an amateur. That is why I only buy my seeds from people matching this criteria.

Click to expand...

No, it's the F1's themselves, not their progeny (F2) that experience hybrid vigor. F1 hybrids are created by crossing two dissimilar stable strains.

The coolest part about breeding is that it's a gradual process. If you let at least 40 plants grow from each of you harvests, you give yourself a decent chance of seeing variation from the traits of your cross once you get to f2 and beyond. Of course this rate goes up with more plants. This means that you could start selecting which traits you would want to make for your own ideal trait.
I'm pretty sure mj is a diploid that has 20 chromosomes, if I remember my biology correctly, 10 from each parent.

What does this mean? Well...Each plant has a possibility of exhibiting a combination of 10 potential chromosomes for each seed.

This means that through extensive breeding (about 50 plants for each generation. Mathematically speaking fnx50: f1=50 f2=100 etc) you can see all possible variations of the cross of two seeds! There are a total of 10! combinations (10!= 10x9x8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1)

Now this much breeding ought to be left to the pros, but basic backyard breeding could easily be done by fellas like you and me. All you got to do is cross a strain for as many generations as you desire, breeding plants with similar traits together. This is where you will start stabilizing a strain. F1 has so much vigor because, dominant traits tend to be the only traits that show in a f1 cross. However, you probably would be surprised by how many recessives you actually like, so your f7 may have much much better vigor than your f1. Once you have established a strong f5-10(or more if you desire) then you can start a new f1. The possibilities are endless man!

+Rep Pipe Dream and Mccumcumber good stuff and very comprehensible. Really starting to understand this breeding shit lol