Will LED lights ever....

Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Will LED lights ever produce yields comparable or better than HID/HPS? Or is the tech so different that it is simply not possible?

I get that LED is already more "efficient"...but.... the "efficiency" does not account for time. And that is a major factor to overlook.

IE: a given space produces 4 lbs with LED over say 16 weeks while in the same space, strain, time and etc the HID produces say 5.5 pounds. All of a sudden the LED "efficiency" is not so great...

Anyway, is there hope that LED will eventually yield like HIDs?
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Will LED lights ever produce yields comparable or better than HID/HPS? Or is the tech so different that it is simply not possible?

I get that LED is already more "efficient"...but.... the "efficiency" does not account for time. And that is a major factor to overlook.

IE: a given space produces 4 lbs with LED over say 16 weeks while in the same space, strain, time and etc the HID produces say 5.5 pounds. All of a sudden the LED "efficiency" is not so great...

Anyway, is there hope that LED will eventually yield like HIDs?
Click to expand...
Ha ha your late to the party with the right leds it already does outperform hps and with less electricity.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
Ha ha your late to the party with the right leds it already does outperform hps and with less electricity.
Click to expand...
Really?

Show me please. All i have read still says that LED is still not producing the same yields as HID. But i have not read everything...

So ... show me please???
 
frica

frica

Well-Known Member
What do you mean with "does not account for time"?

Why would a given space produce 4 lbs with LED but 5.5 lbs with HID?
What's the wattage in your hypothetical situation?

10 CXB3590 COBs driven at 0.7A (+-500 watt excluding driver) easily outdo any 500 watt (excluding ballast) HPS fixture.
 
frica

frica

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Really?

Show me please. All i have read still says that LED is still not producing the same yields as HID. But i have not read everything...

So ... show me please???
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What LEDs are you talking about?
There are a lot of manufacturers with different standards and efficiencies.

High quality COBs easily outdo HID lighting.
 
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grouch

Well-Known Member
The only thing that good quality leds cant compete with hps on right now is barrier of entry. The cost of a quality led rig compared to hps is quite a bit higher especially when running higher wattages. Over time the led will become the better option when factoring in saved electricity and bulb changes which will continue to haunt the hid setups.

Watt for watt, the quality leds will out yeild the hps counterparts. Efficiency is how much light per watt the source puts out compared to heat. 1000w of 60% efficient leds will create 600w of light and 400w of heat. 1000w of hps at 40% efficiency will be 400w of light and 600w of heat. Pair that with better spectrums and leds win.
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Really?

Show me please. All i have read still says that LED is still not producing the same yields as HID. But i have not read everything...

So ... show me please???
Click to expand...
I'll leave that as your homework to prove to yourself. Generally leds are more efficient and have a better spectrum. photons are photons no matter where they come from.

There is plenty to read and see in this forum.
 
T

THE KONASSURE

Well-Known Member
Once you factor in that a 600w hps uses 700w to 800w at the plug

where as a cheap crappy made in china led panel rated for "300w" uses around 150w max at the plug

well then it ends up taking 5 x "300w" led panels to replace a 600w hps at the plug, and you still normally have less heat so still need less airflow

other thing to consider is heat when you switch to led from hps you have less heat, so use less water and less food, if that`s the case many people can find it takes a bit more time to make up the weight

but that can be fixed by making sure you hit the correct peak temps or adding more leds

but optimized leds or red and blue set ups can yield a lot with far less watering

white light set ups can be home made cheap at sizes up and over 2000w per chip

and the old cbx cobs being ran at 70 to 100w will give gpw that will match or out do most cmh, flora and hps growers out there

Can all be done

Personally most people I know like leds because they can use over 2000w of led where they could only run 2 x 600w hps`s before because they get less heat so they can use more lights grow more plants and yield more in the same space
 
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grouch

Well-Known Member
Notice how a 20% efficiency difference equates to 50% more light and 50% less heat in the example I gave above. This is how people are pulling numbers over 1gpw with leds where others struggle to get .9gpw with hid.

In micro cabinets like mine it is the difference between being able to supply myself and having to buy it.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
Will LED lights ever produce yields comparable or better than HID/HPS? Or is the tech so different that it is simply not possible?

I get that LED is already more "efficient"...but.... the "efficiency" does not account for time. And that is a major factor to overlook.

IE: a given space produces 4 lbs with LED over say 16 weeks while in the same space, strain, time and etc the HID produces say 5.5 pounds. All of a sudden the LED "efficiency" is not so great...

Anyway, is there hope that LED will eventually yield like HIDs?
Click to expand...
kinda leaving out some important considerations.......compare PPFD of HPS/MH/CMH to the 50% efficient COB but can't speak for your example :peace:
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
Can we drop the GPW figure...it is not the end all be all, especially when VEG time is never accounted for.....I have strains that will 1 or 2 respectively....I find that cultivar hunting improves GPW if you want to put it that way :)

imho and other may agree is the KWH/per Gram figure is likely more telling :peace:
 
G

grouch

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Can we drop the GPW figure...it is not the end all be all, especially when VEG time is never accounted for.....I have strains that will 1 or 2 respectively....I find that cultivar hunting improves GPW if you want to put it that way :)

imho and other may agree is the KWH/per Gram figure is likely more telling :peace:
Click to expand...
That accounts for time
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
In a 6.5X7.5 space I did two runs with 2 Solar Storm 440s and two 600w HIDs.

In the first run, there was one plant (same strain) under each light. The two plants under the SS440s yielded about 4.5 ounces each for a total of 9. The two plants under the 600w HIDs yielded 6 and 7 ounces for a total of 13 ounces. Note that the LED plants had the benefit of some spillover light from the HIDs, while the reverse was not true. Also, the LED plants needed 10 more days to finish.

The second run was all the same, except that the LEDs did perform a little better. I got a total of 10.5 ounces from the two plants, while the HID plants came in about the same at 13.5 ounces. Again, the LED plants had the benefit of spillover HID light and again they needed more time to finish (8 days).

I AM NOT ARGUING AGAINST THE FACT THAT LED IS MORE EFFICIENT, WATT PER WATT. I AGREE. Math proves that...

... except for when time is added to the equation, at least in my limited experience. Meaning... the HID plants produced roughly 30% more in slightly less time.

Regardless of what math is used to prove efficiency, the 30% more yield in the same space and roughly the same time is a HUGE factor.

This experiment of mine, while not scientific, matches what I have heard from others who grow around here with LED.

So I go back to my original question, which is not about efficiency... is it possible that LED will at some point be able to produce at least equal to HID in the same grow time?
 
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grouch

Well-Known Member
My leds seem to get amber trichomes earlier than my hps and cmh setups I used to run. When using 730nm triggers you can cut that time down even further.

In all fairness, what was the efficiency of your led setup? Until recently leds have not actually exceeded hps in efficiency which would explain your results. Plants receiving less light may take longer to finish.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Can we drop the GPW figure...it is not the end all be all, especially when VEG time is never accounted for.....I have strains that will 1 or 2 respectively....I find that cultivar hunting improves GPW if you want to put it that way :)

imho and other may agree is the KWH/per Gram figure is likely more telling :peace:
Click to expand...

Bonjour
what do you mean you dont like the gpw!!11

CU
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
In a 6.5X7.5 space I did two runs with 2 Solar Storm 440s and two 600w HIDs.

In the first run, there was one plant (same strain) under each light. The two plants under the SS440s yielded about 4.5 ounces each for a total of 9. The two plants under the 600w HIDs yielded 6 and 7 ounces for a total of 13 ounces. Note that the LED plants had the benefit of some spillover light from the HIDs, while the reverse was not true. Also, the LED plants needed 10 more days to finish.

The second run was all the same, except that the LEDs did perform a little better. I got a total of 10.5 ounces from the two plants, while the HID plants came in about the same at 13.5 ounces. Again, the LED plants had the benefit of spillover HID light and again they needed more time to finish (8 days).

I AM NOT ARGUING AGAINST THE FACT THAT LED IS MORE EFFICIENT, WATT PER WATT. I AGREE. Math proves that...

... except for when time is added to the equation, at least in my limited experience. Meaning... the HID plants produced roughly 30% more in slightly less time.

Regardless of what math is used to prove efficiency, the 30% more yield in the same space and roughly the same time is a HUGE factor.

This experiment of mine, while not scientific, matches what I have heard from others who grow around here with LED.

So I go back to my original question, which is not about efficiency... is it possible that LED will at some point be able to produce at least equal to HID in the same grow time?
Click to expand...

but you aren't using math to make the comparison to even start....what are the raw number for the 440's vs the 600w HPS?

Strains, etc? What was the PPFD for both lights, any other variables....

and in reality you are comparing single die diode's to HPS....single die diodes that may be 30% to boot, so yes, efficiency is a big deal, since it is related to a variety of parameters, most notable...raw photon output, which can be compared between different light sources. :peace:
 
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