Why Universal Healthcare would be GOOD!

Rob Roy · Aug 18, 2009

BadDog40 said:
Well we can start with the fact that it costs at least 10x more money to treat illness and disease that are not treated in early stages, throw in that those without insurance go to emergency rooms when they are in later stages of sickness and that can go up to 30x more. We all pay for this.

Then there is the astronomical profits health insurance companies are making. In 2008 just the top 5 insurance companies made over 8 BILLION PROFIT. All an insurance company does is collect your money and (hopefully) pay the bill when you have a claim, that is it. They provide no extra service to you, and actually fight you when it comes to claims. There is no reason the government cannot provide the same service as insurance companies do just as they do now with Medicare. Can anyone tell me just what great service insurance companies provide that justifies 10 billion a year in profits? We all pay for this.

Then you have the pharmaceutical companies. Do to our free market system, they are charging up to 10x more for medication to the US than other countries with govt health care simply because they can. Other countries like Canada have placed a cap on what drug companies can charge in their countries, not here, its a free market. That same pill that costs $10 here would cost $1-$3 anywhere else. We all pay for this.

Here is another little known fact; if a person needs surgery and they have normal health insurance hospitals will charge one price, lets say $20,000. That same surgery under Medicare would be only $15,000, and that same surgery to someone with no insurance would be billed $25,000. Once again, we all pay for this.

Even if I was to pay the same for insurance under a govt plan than I do now I would much rather have some of that money going to treating people with no insurance than to the CEO's and shareholders of insurance companies and drug companies but the fact is it would be much cheaper. We are already paying for the uninsured when they walk into emergency rooms and contributing to billions in profits to insurance and drug companies. So just how would it cost more?

What price do you put on your freedom ?
Your neighbors?

Do you believe one man should obligate another? Do you support using force against those who would reject a mandatory program?

jeff f · Aug 18, 2009

The Federal Govt never ran a whore house and they never took over the chicken ranch. You are referring to the mustang ranch that went into bankruptcy and was auctioned off by the govt. Nice try at spreading BULLSHIT.

he got the wrong whorehouse? is that your argument? really? thats your argument? he called the whorehouse the wrong name? you are right, we should ignore historical facts like fanny mae and freddie mac. or the 1 billion dollar clunker program that turns into a monster boondoggle. yep they didnt happen they are just talking points. but the fucking whorehouse argument? wow, heard it all.

I would much rather have some of that money going to treating people with no insurance than to the CEO's and shareholders of insurance companies and drug companies but the fact is it would be much cheaper. We are already paying for the uninsured when they walk into emergency rooms and contributing to billions in profits to insurance and drug companies.

yes, we really need to crack down on those drug companies and insurance companies. we should run them out of town on a rail.....right out of business. yep, that will really help healthcare. BRILLIANT

FlyLikeAnEagle · Aug 18, 2009

jeff f said:
he got the wrong whorehouse? is that your argument? really? thats your argument? he called the whorehouse the wrong name? you are right, we should ignore historical facts like fanny mae and freddie mac. or the 1 billion dollar clunker program that turns into a monster boondoggle. yep they didnt happen they are just talking points. but the fucking whorehouse argument? wow, heard it all.

Hey Schleprock, do you have a reading comprehension problem? The mustang ranch was auctioned off in bankruptcy court which is what happens to all businesses that cannot repay their debts in bankruptcy court. The govt never ran ANY whorehouse. Should I draw you a picture with crayons?

FlyLikeAnEagle said:
The Federal Govt never ran a whore house and they never took over the chicken ranch. You are referring to the mustang ranch that went into bankruptcy and was auctioned off by the govt.

Rob Roy · Aug 18, 2009

The government never ran any whorehouse? What do you call Congress?

FlyLikeAnEagle · Aug 18, 2009

jeff f said:
yes, we really need to crack down on those drug companies and insurance companies. we should run them out of town on a rail.....right out of business. yep, that will really help healthcare. BRILLIANT

Your brilliance, or lack of it has already been established. You really think its ok for companies to make billions a year on the backs of sick and dying people? Pathetic.

Rob Roy · Aug 18, 2009

FlyLikeAnEagle said:
Your brilliance, or lack of it has already been established. You really think its ok for companies to make billions a year on the backs of sick and dying people? Pathetic.

Do you really think it's okay to force people at the point of a gun to be subjected to a mandatory government program? Do you not believe in freedom of choice?

Keenly · Aug 18, 2009

BadDog40 said:
Do to our free market system, they are charging up to 10x more for medication to the US than other countries with govt health care simply because they can.

what is to stop the government... whoops i mean the same pharma corps (now under government control) to raise those prices ten fold?

TheBrutalTruth · Aug 18, 2009

Keenly said:
what is to stop the government... whoops i mean the same pharma corps (now under government control) to raise those prices ten fold?

I think a more relevant question is what is to stop the FDA from continuing to approve drugs that are later proved dangerous and then denying allegations of harm stemming from those drugs when the socialist insurance bureaucracy receives kickbacks from the pharmaceutical corporations?

The solution to problems stemming from corporate corruption is not more government, because government has shown that it does nothing to discourage corruption and a lot to encourage it. The best solution to the problems perceived with big corporations running the nation through the government is not to increase the size of government but to reduce the size of government and reduce its influence and thus cut the influence that the big corporations are able to get.

You can not reduce corruption by handing control of the markets over to the government. This has been demonstrated by the corruption, golden parachutes and faulty accounting practices of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It is irrational to believe that corporations will reign themselves in if the government has a marked willingness to bail them out, and is controlled by unelected bureaucrats who can hide anonymous in the background free from public scrutiny.

To believe that the solution is to hand control of the 16% of the United States Economy that comprises medical care to the government, despite the fact that the CBO has admitted that the size of the GDP related to medical care will balloon to 22% of the economy under Obama's hellish plan, is absurd. How do you possibly propose that any one believe that government will not engage in shady dealings with the corporations? Or blatantly ignore their misbehavior as benefits bureaucrats and politicians?

More viable solutions, if the case is truly making sure that "everyone" is insured, despite the demonstratable facts that not everyone needs to be insured to receive medical care, or even wants to be insured, would be to simply lower taxes so that they can afford medical care. Or, perhaps offer deductions for the cost of medical insurance.

What is ironic, is that the partisans like Obama routinely scream about the cost, and present only half the facts. The $10,000 plans that they mention for families only cost 25% - 30% as much in less regulated states that do not dictate the need to cover elective surgeries such as gender changes, plastic surgery, and other cosmetic surgery that does nothing to improve health and has not been studied for its negative effects.

Would it not indicate, that as it is possible to get those $10,000 plans for $2,500 - $3,300 in less regulated states, that the solution is not more government intervention but less government intervention?

Some how the government is making a false argument that the solution to problems caused by it, is to allow it more control. The control that the government had over insurance in those high cost states is precisely what caused the problem in the first place.

Keenly · Aug 18, 2009

TheBrutalTruth said:
I think a more relevant question is what is to stop the FDA from continuing to approve drugs that are later proved dangerous and then denying allegations of harm stemming from those drugs.

aspartame comes to mind...

not even a pill, just an artificial sweetener

before aspertame was cleared as a food additive it was classified as a bioweapon

TheBrutalTruth · Aug 18, 2009

Keenly said:
aspartame comes to mind...

not even a pill, just an artificial sweetener

before aspertame was cleared as a food additive it was classified as a bioweapon

I don't know how any one can stand diet soda, stuff tastes horrible.

ilkhan · Aug 19, 2009

Rob, yes they support pointing a gun at people who don't agree with them.
That way they can have other peoples shit.
And its all under color of law.
So only the greedy un-co-oppretive people will be hurt.

ViRedd · Aug 19, 2009

TheBrutalTruth said:
I don't know how any one can stand diet soda, stuff tastes horrible.

Jah, I'm with you TBT. Same thing with regular sodas. I've been off of all foods and drinks containing High Fructose Corn Syrup for so long now, that I can taste the stuff whenever its present. And Aspartame? That crap was developed as a rat poison. Many people suffer allergies from Aspartame, even to the extent of developing symptoms of MS.

Allan Watts · Aug 20, 2009

Health care in the USA is a major disaster. Millions of Americans are being forced into bankruptcy b/c they are unable to pay the enormous bills that follow after being denied coverage b/c of 'preexisting' conditions. The private insurance companies are spending $1.4 million per day to put false claims into stories such as Sarah Palin's 'Death Panel' BS. These ridiculous claims are given credence by a media that is still 90% republican owned.

Reform is needed if the US is to avoid becoming a third world country on a level with Rawanda or North Korea.

Illegal Smile · Aug 20, 2009

Allan Watts said:
Health care in the USA is a major disaster. Millions of Americans are being forced into bankruptcy b/c they are unable to pay the enormous bills that follow after being denied coverage b/c of 'preexisting' conditions. The private insurance companies are spending $1.4 million per day to put false claims into stories such as Sarah Palin's 'Death Panel' BS. These ridiculous claims are given credence by a media that is still 90% republican owned.

Reform is needed if the US is to avoid becoming a third world country on a level with Rawanda or North Korea.

I see. That's why everyone in the world wants to come here for health care. And why the mortality rates for breast cancer and prostate cancer are 2 - 6 times higher in the UK and Canada. Whatever the government tries to run ends hopelessly screwed.

The Warlord · Aug 20, 2009

Allan Watts said:
Health care in the USA is a major disaster. Millions of Americans are being forced into bankruptcy b/c they are unable to pay the enormous bills that follow after being denied coverage b/c of 'preexisting' conditions. The private insurance companies are spending $1.4 million per day to put false claims into stories such as Sarah Palin's 'Death Panel' BS. These ridiculous claims are given credence by a media that is still 90% republican owned.

Reform is needed if the US is to avoid becoming a third world country on a level with Rawanda or North Korea.

Saying that the media is 90% republican owned is preposterous and puts all your claims in a negative light. Fox is the ONLY media outlet that has a conservative slant. All the others are about as liberal as can be.

TheBrutalTruth · Aug 20, 2009

Allan Watts said:
Health care in the USA is a major disaster. Millions of Americans are being forced into bankruptcy b/c they are unable to pay the enormous bills that follow after being denied coverage b/c of 'preexisting' conditions. The private insurance companies are spending $1.4 million per day to put false claims into stories such as Sarah Palin's 'Death Panel' BS. These ridiculous claims are given credence by a media that is still 90% republican owned.

Reform is needed if the US is to avoid becoming a third world country on a level with Rawanda or North Korea.

Insurance is supposed to pool risks, not to guarantee that any moron will get healthcare. It is unjust to the other holders of insurance to insist that they be forced to subsidize at their expense the medical care of some one that is not a risk, but a guaranteed loss.

Your arguments are flawed.

Rob Roy · Aug 20, 2009

Allan Watts said:
Health care in the USA is a major disaster. Millions of Americans are being forced into bankruptcy b/c they are unable to pay the enormous bills that follow after being denied coverage b/c of 'preexisting' conditions. The private insurance companies are spending $1.4 million per day to put false claims into stories such as Sarah Palin's 'Death Panel' BS. These ridiculous claims are given credence by a media that is still 90% republican owned.

Reform is needed if the US is to avoid becoming a third world country on a level with Rawanda or North Korea.

You say "millions of american are being forced..." Would force be used to enforce enrollment in a mandatory government healthcare plan? Would you be okay with that?

In order to avoid becoming a country like N. Korea shouldn't our government NOT proclaim edicts and mandatory programs to us at the point of a gun?

hanimmal · Aug 20, 2009

You say "millions of american are being forced..." Would force be used to enforce enrollment in a mandatory government healthcare plan? Would you be okay with that?

In order to avoid becoming a country like N. Korea shouldn't our government NOT proclaim edicts and mandatory programs to us at the point of a gun?

Damn, you would think that with all these guns they hold to everyones heads there would never be any crime.

NoDrama · Aug 20, 2009

hanimmal said:
Damn, you would think that with all these guns they hold to everyones heads there would never be any crime.

He doesn't literally mean guns, he means the use of force will compell you to comply. Sometimes your density amazes me.

Rob Roy · Aug 20, 2009

hanimmal said:
Damn, you would think that with all these guns they hold to everyones heads there would never be any crime.

Government has a habit of creating more victimless crimes and issuing edicts that remove our liberty. This is the source of MANY "crimes".

I've heard areas that (illegally) restrict gun ownership have higher crime rates. Hmmph...Imagine that.

Concerning holding guns to people's heads...what will happen if a person
does not comply with any mandatory healthcare program? Will GOVERNMENT force be used? Will liberty we NOW possess be lost? Do you think mandatory healthcare is a right or a government edict?

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