Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
This is what I am talking about 3-4 bowls a day - maybe more than I originally thought - but I load 3-4 bowls in the morning before I get going. i smoke an 1/8 a DAY sometimes.
Why Legalization should be Stopped! (wait, hear me out!)
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Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
I dont know how this really relates - my point goes to those that say the bill will free the innocent people.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Which I never claimed as one of the benefits of this bill.
And again, my space is 30''x38''x40''....and I grow more than my fiancee and I can smoke, about an ounce a month. And I limited to only 6 plants, plus all the space that gets tied up with ventilation and odor control.
Now, suppose I have a 5x5 space....I could grow an ounce a week EASY. And again, I am not that experienced, but know enough to state with confidence that growing cannabis is easier than fuck. I could see harvesting enough that I would have to sell extra ounces to friends (gotta keep legal...).
This is a dream to anyone who wants to enjoy cannabis legally. It might not be a dream to those somehow making a living abiding roughly within current laws, as it shakes thing up a bit. But this bill IS progress in the right direction.
A no vote on this initiative is a stone cold kick in the groin to stoners everywhere
Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
I am not kicking anyone in the nuts - this bill is kicking people in the nuts - really people on both sides are getting kicked, this is the reality - right?
Read this and imagine that an 20 year old just got caught celebrating his enrolment in college or the start of a family - celebrating with a joint with some friends.
"Originally Posted by dukeofbaja
3. Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19,
and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of
passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person
passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no
exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are
present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly
don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start
with cannabis?"
This is a kick in the nuts for that 20 year old - by the time he gets through trial and in jail he'd be 21-22 out of jail by the time hes 28-29. thats fucked just missed his hole chance at a good job he was working for since high school or a chunk of his child's life.
Read this and imagine that an 20 year old just got caught celebrating his enrolment in college or the start of a family - celebrating with a joint with some friends.
"Originally Posted by dukeofbaja
3. Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19,and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of
passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person
passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no
exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are
present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly
don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start
with cannabis?"
This is a kick in the nuts for that 20 year old - by the time he gets through trial and in jail he'd be 21-22 out of jail by the time hes 28-29. thats fucked just missed his hole chance at a good job he was working for since high school or a chunk of his child's life.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Prohibition on Furnishing [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL], who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
So a 20 year old smoking a joint gets 7+ years in prison? I don't see that in here....
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL], who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
So a 20 year old smoking a joint gets 7+ years in prison? I don't see that in here....
Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
i am not sure how you missed it...
This initiative mandates that 18, 19,
and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of
passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount.
Here it is. What do you think?
This initiative mandates that 18, 19,
and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of
passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount.
Here it is. What do you think?
abe23
Active Member
What are the penalties for giving alcohol to minors in california? Fairly strict I would imagine....somewhere along the same lines as what is being proposed here.
Between us I think we would agree that it probably shouldn't be the same, but the general isn't quite there yet. Don't you think that at least in terms of politics i.e. getting the general public to vote for this, the law would need to treat it the same as liquor?
Between us I think we would agree that it probably shouldn't be the same, but the general isn't quite there yet. Don't you think that at least in terms of politics i.e. getting the general public to vote for this, the law would need to treat it the same as liquor?
stupidclown
Well-Known Member
ok first let me say i don't sell weed to anyone not even clubs, i make cookies for clubs and if it was legal for everyone i'd pay less for what i need to make them and sell WAY more and make more money.
that out of the way this bill is crap. paid for buy a club owner to make his clubs more money. this doesn't help anyone the one oz rule would still keep the people in prison locked up because no one in prison in ca is there for under an oz. this frees no one and will keep very few out of jail this is about letting you have a few grams to smoke and making sure you buy it from a club. with taxation you would need a permit and tax # to sell and they are not giving them to everyone and for sure the permits are not free. sure you can grow tiny amounts not enough for you needs. you would still need a med card to do the same thing you are doing now. the only diff is uncle sam would take his cut.
this is greedy club owners trying to get a bigger more secure cut of the market, not about the little guy or the casualties of the drug war. this is about money
people cry about people who want to vote no and say they are greedy, look at who wrote and funded this and why. who? a club owner took millions of his own money to fund this. first off he has made millions in weed already hes not the little guy he his the nor cal walmart of weed you think he'd spend that much to help people grow there own so they don't buy from him? hell no.
there is greed on both sides. i will wait on a bill that helps all the people not just a few. I'll vote no
that out of the way this bill is crap. paid for buy a club owner to make his clubs more money. this doesn't help anyone the one oz rule would still keep the people in prison locked up because no one in prison in ca is there for under an oz. this frees no one and will keep very few out of jail this is about letting you have a few grams to smoke and making sure you buy it from a club. with taxation you would need a permit and tax # to sell and they are not giving them to everyone and for sure the permits are not free. sure you can grow tiny amounts not enough for you needs. you would still need a med card to do the same thing you are doing now. the only diff is uncle sam would take his cut.
this is greedy club owners trying to get a bigger more secure cut of the market, not about the little guy or the casualties of the drug war. this is about money
people cry about people who want to vote no and say they are greedy, look at who wrote and funded this and why. who? a club owner took millions of his own money to fund this. first off he has made millions in weed already hes not the little guy he his the nor cal walmart of weed you think he'd spend that much to help people grow there own so they don't buy from him? hell no.
there is greed on both sides. i will wait on a bill that helps all the people not just a few. I'll vote no
dukeofbaja
New Member
I think you need to read closer...
dukeofbaja
New Member
Prohibition on Furnishing [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL], who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
Let me summarize (very roughly)...
a) If you are over 18, and you sell to or get high a minor under 14 years old, that can mean jail for 3, 5 or 7 years. Likely 3 at worst, 1-1.5 with good behavior/therapy/treatment, realistically.
b) If you are over 18, and you sell to or get high a minor 14-18 years old, that can mean jail for 3, 4 or 5 years. Again, likely less time for a first offense and mitigating circumstances.
c) If you are over 21 and you sell to or get high an 18-21 year old, that can mean jail for 6 months and $1,000 fine. Remember, this is America, so you can likely buy a lesser sentence with enough money.
d) You can't have or work at a dispensary and lose your license for a year if you sell to a minor and whatnot.
This says nothing about what happens to a couple of 20 year olds getting high.
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL], who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL][/URL] to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
Let me summarize (very roughly)...
a) If you are over 18, and you sell to or get high a minor under 14 years old, that can mean jail for 3, 5 or 7 years. Likely 3 at worst, 1-1.5 with good behavior/therapy/treatment, realistically.
b) If you are over 18, and you sell to or get high a minor 14-18 years old, that can mean jail for 3, 4 or 5 years. Again, likely less time for a first offense and mitigating circumstances.
c) If you are over 21 and you sell to or get high an 18-21 year old, that can mean jail for 6 months and $1,000 fine. Remember, this is America, so you can likely buy a lesser sentence with enough money.
d) You can't have or work at a dispensary and lose your license for a year if you sell to a minor and whatnot.
This says nothing about what happens to a couple of 20 year olds getting high.
dukeofbaja
New Member
This bill lets anyone over 21 grow their own weed. Not just a few, but all the people may grow their own now.
For a little capital investment, you can grow better weed for cheaper.
And thiking a little further beyond the Cali border, think of the headlines in the rest of the country when this bill passes/fails.
You want to set the overall cause back with a devastating blow? A no vote is a good idea then...
You want to place the end of cannabis prohibition smack in the center of national discussion? Vote yes.
Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
The biggest set back for the nation in this regard was passing prop 215 without establishing all the laws in which all authorities would abide by. This led to thousands of arrests and hundreds of thousands in product lost. this also led to the SB 420, which was a failure also.
Voting no is not going to cause any devastation - imo - voting yes will end up with devastating results. I understand your point of view a little more since you are out of the state, you dont see everything going on here. CA will be the first to go legal, i look forward to the day - really I do - just not under the current circumstances, and without much more clarification. CA has already proven that you can just start making laws without a lot of thought - imo - the thought they put into it is very selfish, they should be focused on the specifics of the - who, what, when, where, how and all that a little more.
Voting no is not going to cause any devastation - imo - voting yes will end up with devastating results. I understand your point of view a little more since you are out of the state, you dont see everything going on here. CA will be the first to go legal, i look forward to the day - really I do - just not under the current circumstances, and without much more clarification. CA has already proven that you can just start making laws without a lot of thought - imo - the thought they put into it is very selfish, they should be focused on the specifics of the - who, what, when, where, how and all that a little more.
stupidclown
Well-Known Member
this bill does nothing for ca that we don't already do under 215 but make easy to get med cards unneeded for very small amounts and secure the clubs position as the only dealers. to really grow enough for yourself you would still need a med card, unless you are ok with growing a oz or two at a time
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
So I read the first ten pages on this, it is very interesting. Really this is the first I have heard about this, so this may not be right, but reading this and thinking about it economically from the governments perspective.
From what it looks like is that they are essentially legalizing mj up to 1 oz for anyone over 21yrs old. And restricting home growers to a 5ft x 5ft square area. And allowing businesses to essentially supply the stores.
It sounds like they are trying to get it out of homes and into the business sector (regardless of who that business is). Homes will never be able to compete with mass harvesting price wise, and by making them 5x5 in the home chokes out even the high quality bud growers possible revenue with so few plants.
And if you think about it from a bookkeeping standpoint, you want your suppliers and retailers to be legit businesses, that way there is book keeping, and that means far more accurate income and profit recording. And that means more taxes.
Side benefit, the chances of fires, chemicals being improperly disposed of, crime (border wars), ect all lesson the money spent by the government, so for them a win win.
So this would seem to mean that if you want to make money from this, you need to become a business and legally supply to the shops.
The business should be there. Now 202,416 (based off some voluntary database (but say it is 500k people) patients have access to mmj out of the 36 million people in the population. So if about 1/3 of Americans have smoked weed That would equate to increasing the customer base to 12 million people, not sure if that number meant children, so lets cut it in half to 6 million people. Or 30x the amount currently being purchased on the legal market.
So basically if you are suppliers right now, you need to increase your business 30x it's current level. And if you do that you should be able to get it to a far more efficient level and drastically lower your costs per plant as you do so.
And that is at old prices, with lowered prices and availability increasing it would be higher. So maybe 40-50x larger grows than you are doing now may be needed.
So it seems like for the entire economy there will be far more money going towards it, and that means that there will be far more job opportunities in it for people, so the entire economy will benefit from it (greater than the amount of loss on the micro scale to the current growers), There will be more taxes to run the things that need to be done too. But it will be at the expense of the small growers now that make a better wage based off the inefficiencies of government regulation.
Possible job opportunity for homes though may be breeders, with it no longer being based on plants, you could have homes be the mothers and clones, and then they get taken to the commercial facilities.
From what it looks like is that they are essentially legalizing mj up to 1 oz for anyone over 21yrs old. And restricting home growers to a 5ft x 5ft square area. And allowing businesses to essentially supply the stores.
It sounds like they are trying to get it out of homes and into the business sector (regardless of who that business is). Homes will never be able to compete with mass harvesting price wise, and by making them 5x5 in the home chokes out even the high quality bud growers possible revenue with so few plants.
And if you think about it from a bookkeeping standpoint, you want your suppliers and retailers to be legit businesses, that way there is book keeping, and that means far more accurate income and profit recording. And that means more taxes.
Side benefit, the chances of fires, chemicals being improperly disposed of, crime (border wars), ect all lesson the money spent by the government, so for them a win win.
So this would seem to mean that if you want to make money from this, you need to become a business and legally supply to the shops.
The business should be there. Now 202,416 (based off some voluntary database (but say it is 500k people) patients have access to mmj out of the 36 million people in the population. So if about 1/3 of Americans have smoked weed That would equate to increasing the customer base to 12 million people, not sure if that number meant children, so lets cut it in half to 6 million people. Or 30x the amount currently being purchased on the legal market.
So basically if you are suppliers right now, you need to increase your business 30x it's current level. And if you do that you should be able to get it to a far more efficient level and drastically lower your costs per plant as you do so.
And that is at old prices, with lowered prices and availability increasing it would be higher. So maybe 40-50x larger grows than you are doing now may be needed.
So it seems like for the entire economy there will be far more money going towards it, and that means that there will be far more job opportunities in it for people, so the entire economy will benefit from it (greater than the amount of loss on the micro scale to the current growers), There will be more taxes to run the things that need to be done too. But it will be at the expense of the small growers now that make a better wage based off the inefficiencies of government regulation.
Possible job opportunity for homes though may be breeders, with it no longer being based on plants, you could have homes be the mothers and clones, and then they get taken to the commercial facilities.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Then show me where it says a 20 year old passing a joint to a fellow 20 year old will face 7+ years in prison. Just show me then...
dukeofbaja
New Member
I could pump pounds out of a 5x5 space. There is a very real chance I will be living in Cali soon, and if that day comes, I know I will have no problem harvesting an ounce as needed out of the same space. That argument does not fly.
dukeofbaja
New Member
A yes vote will be devastating? Really? You must be the same guy telling me that a 20 year old will get 7 years in prison for simple possesion.....
Professor Puff.n.Tuff
Active Member
I am not telling you - i am trying to inform you. It is not like i made that up. It was pulled from a post were a guy copied and pasted part of the bill.
Do some research. I am also the same guy that asked if you even reside in CA and if you have read the bill?????
Do you understand my point about passing prop 215 before establishing laws???
Do some research. I am also the same guy that asked if you even reside in CA and if you have read the bill?????
Do you understand my point about passing prop 215 before establishing laws???
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