Why do you winterize BHO
- Thread starter Budbrother69
- Start date
Texas(THC)
Well-Known Member
will do, done for the day
bez420
Well-Known Member
Just to make sure. You suggest clean butane with winterizing? "It's all about the quality not quanity man" anyone?
SnapsProvolone
Well-Known Member
Care to cite your sources?
bez420
Well-Known Member
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
been a while since I posted this, should explain good enough
Qwizokings take.....
Your welcome........
winterizing removes the fats,waxes and other lipophillic (fat loving) compounds. What makes them lipophillic or hydrophillic is based on polarity... butane is nonpolar (lipophillic) ethanol and iso are relatively polar, meaning they won't allow lipophillic substances...
Solubility is largely based on polarity and temp. so if you heat the polar ethanol or iso it will absorb the extract left from a butane wash. After freezing it the solubility of the waxes and fats decreases. These lipophillic non polar waxes precipitate as a solid out of the solution. It can then be filtered
The waxes and fats removed make up the harshness and congestive properties smoked hash oil can sometimes bring. This process does not remove terpenes and will drastically increase the quality of a butane(non polar) extract... if you start with an iso or etoh wash its not as necessary and shatter can easily be produced using a single polar wash.. iso in the middle of butane and ethanol polarity wise giving the best extract only using a single wash......but for compounds such as thca and precursory cannabinoids to move about the plant (as well as all compounds within the plant) they must be relatively polar. Because of this iso or etoh can extract a dirty product if left in solvent too long....which is why a long soak in butane that's allowed to pull every last cannabinoid and wax/fat. And then winterized to remove the wax/fats will give a better yield of quality product than iso or etoh.
Fats and waxes are highly lipophillic basically long chain esters. For a compound to have drug likeness it must be polar to a slight degree(allowing crossing of the blood brain barrier and to be soluble in the blood).. this slight polarity helps keep them in the ethanol as all cannabinoids have a hydroxyl group when the also lipophillic fats get pulled , the fats and waxes are also larger heavier compounds which hinders solubility. winterizing is how commercial perfume/essential oils are made, and if done properly will not harm the flavor,though I should mention the waxes and fats pulled often are somewhat fragrant.. It should be noted thc itself is an aromatic terpene, anything affecting flavor effects potency to an extent. I do all my extracts in the dark and under 70 degrees even in the purge. 75 degrees or so is when lighter terpenes began to volatize into the air (I also dry/cure at 70or under for this reason) vapor pressures aren't linear too
polarity is relative, butane does not have a polar hydroxyl group same with the waxes and fats, -oh while iso and etoh do . This is responsible for iso's high boiling point, even though its molecular weight is very similar to butane. and why water boils at a much higher temp, being much lighter than butane or iso. Hydrogen bonding is the strongest intra molecular force. Imfs are what determine solubility. Their is no defining line between polar and non polar. Its how polar or non polar. To find out,the biggest clue is molecular structure. ch bonds are non polar making hexane with more carbon a better non polar solvent. These hydrocarbon solvents lack the polarity iso and ever clear have.. but for them to hold cannabinoids in suspension and dissolve them they must also have a non polar side,which is why you can't winterize in water...likewise You can't winterize in a completely non polar solvent either. Iso is actually quite non polar, so is ethanol. Look at a ph index polar water is 9, iso somewhere around 4 etoh 6 and butane 0 or .1.. this is just an estimate off memory.. Etoh is best, iso will work butane will not. This is because of the waxes increasing solubility in the non polar solvents.
Qwizokings take.....
Your welcome........
winterizing removes the fats,waxes and other lipophillic (fat loving) compounds. What makes them lipophillic or hydrophillic is based on polarity... butane is nonpolar (lipophillic) ethanol and iso are relatively polar, meaning they won't allow lipophillic substances...
Solubility is largely based on polarity and temp. so if you heat the polar ethanol or iso it will absorb the extract left from a butane wash. After freezing it the solubility of the waxes and fats decreases. These lipophillic non polar waxes precipitate as a solid out of the solution. It can then be filtered
The waxes and fats removed make up the harshness and congestive properties smoked hash oil can sometimes bring. This process does not remove terpenes and will drastically increase the quality of a butane(non polar) extract... if you start with an iso or etoh wash its not as necessary and shatter can easily be produced using a single polar wash.. iso in the middle of butane and ethanol polarity wise giving the best extract only using a single wash......but for compounds such as thca and precursory cannabinoids to move about the plant (as well as all compounds within the plant) they must be relatively polar. Because of this iso or etoh can extract a dirty product if left in solvent too long....which is why a long soak in butane that's allowed to pull every last cannabinoid and wax/fat. And then winterized to remove the wax/fats will give a better yield of quality product than iso or etoh.
Fats and waxes are highly lipophillic basically long chain esters. For a compound to have drug likeness it must be polar to a slight degree(allowing crossing of the blood brain barrier and to be soluble in the blood).. this slight polarity helps keep them in the ethanol as all cannabinoids have a hydroxyl group when the also lipophillic fats get pulled , the fats and waxes are also larger heavier compounds which hinders solubility. winterizing is how commercial perfume/essential oils are made, and if done properly will not harm the flavor,though I should mention the waxes and fats pulled often are somewhat fragrant.. It should be noted thc itself is an aromatic terpene, anything affecting flavor effects potency to an extent. I do all my extracts in the dark and under 70 degrees even in the purge. 75 degrees or so is when lighter terpenes began to volatize into the air (I also dry/cure at 70or under for this reason) vapor pressures aren't linear too
polarity is relative, butane does not have a polar hydroxyl group same with the waxes and fats, -oh while iso and etoh do . This is responsible for iso's high boiling point, even though its molecular weight is very similar to butane. and why water boils at a much higher temp, being much lighter than butane or iso. Hydrogen bonding is the strongest intra molecular force. Imfs are what determine solubility. Their is no defining line between polar and non polar. Its how polar or non polar. To find out,the biggest clue is molecular structure. ch bonds are non polar making hexane with more carbon a better non polar solvent. These hydrocarbon solvents lack the polarity iso and ever clear have.. but for them to hold cannabinoids in suspension and dissolve them they must also have a non polar side,which is why you can't winterize in water...likewise You can't winterize in a completely non polar solvent either. Iso is actually quite non polar, so is ethanol. Look at a ph index polar water is 9, iso somewhere around 4 etoh 6 and butane 0 or .1.. this is just an estimate off memory.. Etoh is best, iso will work butane will not. This is because of the waxes increasing solubility in the non polar solvents.
As i mentioned (i think) i had some old bho that i overcooked and ruined, and some other bho that my friend dropped on the floor and had cat fur in it.
When i got my everclear i dissolved the bho in it, froze for 48 hours, strained, and poured out and let evap at room temp for a day or so.
Scraped what was left, and when i vac it, it has crazy non stop reactions. They never seemed to stop so i tried dabbing some and it was smooth, and the high was clean and boring.
I cannot wait to try this using good material not leftover overcooked b.s.
When i got my everclear i dissolved the bho in it, froze for 48 hours, strained, and poured out and let evap at room temp for a day or so.
Scraped what was left, and when i vac it, it has crazy non stop reactions. They never seemed to stop so i tried dabbing some and it was smooth, and the high was clean and boring.
I cannot wait to try this using good material not leftover overcooked b.s.
AlGore
Well-Known Member
My noob input, lol.
It does give a smoother(cleaner is a better word) hit, although if you are burning your throat you are prob just dabbing way too hot in the first place. But it also removes, and not just imo, a lot of the flavor and actually gives a less stoney high. For people like me that have a naturally high tolerance in the first place, and that have build up high tolerance to concentrates, it's all about the terps.
Some labs out here "dewax" PH and 710 come to mind. But they are using cyro freezers and crazy expensive equipment. And they still contain contaminates and residual solvents. Shit some of the best most award winning artist extracts have high ppms. Even the fire ass Rockbudder, cold purged, less than a bic lighter worth of tane extracted, lowest ppm test bho in the damn country, STILL has residuals in it. What does this tell you? Get away from BHO!! He says as he looks at 3 differnt nugrun gs from TC labs and 2 from PH, lol.
It does give a smoother(cleaner is a better word) hit, although if you are burning your throat you are prob just dabbing way too hot in the first place. But it also removes, and not just imo, a lot of the flavor and actually gives a less stoney high. For people like me that have a naturally high tolerance in the first place, and that have build up high tolerance to concentrates, it's all about the terps.
Some labs out here "dewax" PH and 710 come to mind. But they are using cyro freezers and crazy expensive equipment. And they still contain contaminates and residual solvents. Shit some of the best most award winning artist extracts have high ppms. Even the fire ass Rockbudder, cold purged, less than a bic lighter worth of tane extracted, lowest ppm test bho in the damn country, STILL has residuals in it. What does this tell you? Get away from BHO!! He says as he looks at 3 differnt nugrun gs from TC labs and 2 from PH, lol.
VladFromOG
Active Member
Snaps - my source on which butanes are clean is myself (I've tested a lot of butane)but you can easily test your own butanes purity at home via clean plate test (check article in my sig for more info)
My source for the various cannabinoids solubility and other physical characteristics is chemspider. Anyone can look up any of the components and get well established physical data on chemspider. What you'll find is that the plant waxes are all about equally soluble, the solid lipid that is thc gets extracted by the same things the other solid lipids do. Despite the smug assurances of a thousand internet bho 'experts' whove never bothered to test their butane, thc is a solid waxy lipid and cold ethanol doesnt precipitate solid waxy lipids [thc or otherwise] unless supersaturated, but the thc would stay with the other waxy lipids regardless. Theres isnt an easy solevent based way to seperate cannabinoids from, other plant waxes and oils bc any solvent thatdissolves thc etc will dissolve any other wax or oil that hemp creates just as well. Just bc one section is psychoactive doesnt change that.
It is possible however to remove a lot of terpenes and other aromatic and mildly beneficial lighter oils get lost in the alcohol evap.
Bez, im saying if you use clean butane, then winterizing wont do anything. If you currently winterize and you filter out something, you should test your butane for purity, as the only time ive seen winterizing pull anything is from bho made with dirty butane.
My source for the various cannabinoids solubility and other physical characteristics is chemspider. Anyone can look up any of the components and get well established physical data on chemspider. What you'll find is that the plant waxes are all about equally soluble, the solid lipid that is thc gets extracted by the same things the other solid lipids do. Despite the smug assurances of a thousand internet bho 'experts' whove never bothered to test their butane, thc is a solid waxy lipid and cold ethanol doesnt precipitate solid waxy lipids [thc or otherwise] unless supersaturated, but the thc would stay with the other waxy lipids regardless. Theres isnt an easy solevent based way to seperate cannabinoids from, other plant waxes and oils bc any solvent thatdissolves thc etc will dissolve any other wax or oil that hemp creates just as well. Just bc one section is psychoactive doesnt change that.
It is possible however to remove a lot of terpenes and other aromatic and mildly beneficial lighter oils get lost in the alcohol evap.
Bez, im saying if you use clean butane, then winterizing wont do anything. If you currently winterize and you filter out something, you should test your butane for purity, as the only time ive seen winterizing pull anything is from bho made with dirty butane.
Bublonichronic
Well-Known Member
I don't winterize anymore, but I prefer the waxes to coagulate in my lungs
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
only time ive seen winterizing pull anything is from bho made with dirty butane.
hmmm, I've winterized iso extracts and pulled plenty. I've also reduced a gallon of 99% iso to leave a perfectly clean piece of glass...it's not dirty solvents
also I take it you didn't understand.. we pull mostly long chain esters. thc is significantly more polar, remember the hydroxyl group I mentioned, many of the compounds are more polar than thc and not being pulled, the length of these chains has alot to do with it. thc is not a waxy lipid lol stop repeating that
What you'll find is that the plant waxes are all about equally soluble...seriously? Lol yup, 4 carbon chain-24 carbon chain, saturated, unsaturated. ester/alcohol/fatty acid.. why would any of that effect solubility
lmao.. anyway back to ignore you go
hmmm, I've winterized iso extracts and pulled plenty. I've also reduced a gallon of 99% iso to leave a perfectly clean piece of glass...it's not dirty solvents
also I take it you didn't understand.. we pull mostly long chain esters. thc is significantly more polar, remember the hydroxyl group I mentioned, many of the compounds are more polar than thc and not being pulled, the length of these chains has alot to do with it. thc is not a waxy lipid lol stop repeating that
What you'll find is that the plant waxes are all about equally soluble...seriously? Lol yup, 4 carbon chain-24 carbon chain, saturated, unsaturated. ester/alcohol/fatty acid.. why would any of that effect solubility
lmao.. anyway back to ignore you go
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SaybianTv
Active Member
Qwizo
Is Vlad like if finshaggy got some brain enhancing device to tripple rhetoric and shroud in sophistry everything fin would normally say?
I read that crap and I honestly don't think normal people can spot that shit. Like way to negate every bloody thing in existence.
Dude's dripping in nefarious intentions and he doesn't even know it. Are you the same Vlad i hear about on videos that was for Self Lab Testing?
Is Vlad like if finshaggy got some brain enhancing device to tripple rhetoric and shroud in sophistry everything fin would normally say?
I read that crap and I honestly don't think normal people can spot that shit. Like way to negate every bloody thing in existence.
Dude's dripping in nefarious intentions and he doesn't even know it. Are you the same Vlad i hear about on videos that was for Self Lab Testing?
I think someone needs to do some real lab tests with winterized and non winterized extracts made from the exact same flowers to really prove what is happening.
If I was in Seattle I would do this in an instant for everyone to see the results.
I also question what the "total" amount of byproducts are that are being taken out by the winterizing.
I don't think it is just plant fats. I think people are pulling out other crap from their medicine's like neem oils, pesticides, vegatable oil bug sprays etc..which is a good thing.
BUT I think if people were actually extracting and TESTING their own home grown by winterizing and not winterizing things would be much more eye opening to them.
The reason I say this is that I do real on the spot testing with my extracts vs. friends winterized extracts and I constantly have smoother, sweeter, danker smelling, and much more potent extracts then them.
And it's not just me that's saying that. It's friends that would rather smoke my non winterized bho than thier winterized stuff that they make from all kinds of various weed they buy off the street.
The loss of smell, flavor, and perhaps potency from winterizing is huge IMHO.
I believe what you put in is what you put out winterized or not.
Also I can do a BHO extract in freezing temperatures with a pure Indica strain that will separate the fats on it's own without winterizing. The fats separate in the tane and can be physically separated and removed very easily. (possibly other impurities are separating themselves out this way with the fats?)
Where as a more Sativa dominant strain I have found has much less fats in it and under the same freezing temp conditions will have almost no fats show up in the tane.
Just an observation I wanted to point out.
This may be a reason on it's own that my bho made from true OG is naturally very, very smooth and dank.
Maybe just a natural low level of plant fat in certain strains make them smoother?
I am no expert by any means just wanted to include those observations in this discussion.
Can't believe we have no high end, full service mj lab that doesn't cost a fortune here in Vancouver BC.
If I was in Seattle I would do this in an instant for everyone to see the results.
I also question what the "total" amount of byproducts are that are being taken out by the winterizing.
I don't think it is just plant fats. I think people are pulling out other crap from their medicine's like neem oils, pesticides, vegatable oil bug sprays etc..which is a good thing.
BUT I think if people were actually extracting and TESTING their own home grown by winterizing and not winterizing things would be much more eye opening to them.
The reason I say this is that I do real on the spot testing with my extracts vs. friends winterized extracts and I constantly have smoother, sweeter, danker smelling, and much more potent extracts then them.
And it's not just me that's saying that. It's friends that would rather smoke my non winterized bho than thier winterized stuff that they make from all kinds of various weed they buy off the street.
The loss of smell, flavor, and perhaps potency from winterizing is huge IMHO.
I believe what you put in is what you put out winterized or not.
Also I can do a BHO extract in freezing temperatures with a pure Indica strain that will separate the fats on it's own without winterizing. The fats separate in the tane and can be physically separated and removed very easily. (possibly other impurities are separating themselves out this way with the fats?)
Where as a more Sativa dominant strain I have found has much less fats in it and under the same freezing temp conditions will have almost no fats show up in the tane.
Just an observation I wanted to point out.
This may be a reason on it's own that my bho made from true OG is naturally very, very smooth and dank.
Maybe just a natural low level of plant fat in certain strains make them smoother?
I am no expert by any means just wanted to include those observations in this discussion.
Can't believe we have no high end, full service mj lab that doesn't cost a fortune here in Vancouver BC.
francy420
Well-Known Member
I agree on each strain being different as far as wax content. One question though Yoda do your friends purge the alcohol on heat when winterizing? because this I feel is where people go wrong then dis the taste and quality of winterized. If done at room temp winterized is very tasty, and smooth. This is just my observation and opinion. Could be you just have really good strains for doing non-winterized. Our tastes are all a bit different.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
You buys know there's no such thing as clean butane or bho wax. Only clean if you use food grade ethanol. There's over 60 chemicals and gases in the most filtered butane. With out knowing what each one is, you can't properly purge or winterize. It creates to many variables. Each chemical or gas needs varying temps to do so. If using even lab grade n bho there still carcinogenic chemicals present in the wax
SaybianTv
Active Member
BC in all honesty without knowing a thing about your friends, id say i smell an iso winterize.....
I know id bet on you getting a better single solvent "In Blast Tube" dewax than they are getting Iso'ing it up in the freezer. Sweet leaf v2 i believe does in line close loop single solvent dewax during extraction which is prolly getting people 70% of the way.
I know winterizing enuff to know where people fuck up, let water slip in, take the quick bastard route. I know all my demons and I can easily see why people wouldn't go through the hardship.
I'm unfortunately become so sensitive to the stuff that I threw a hissy fit yesterday that I made a batch of poison and I blamed running kief. Later in the night i kept tasting the oil over n over again trying to find this trace that bothered me n made my throat scratch on this 100g batch.
Well today i winterized it again n low and behold is another 2 grams of wax, I looked through my old filters n found a bend in the paper where shit must of slipped by.
Nobody i know has the equipment to just say fuck it we'll start over because i wont sell this shit that's only 95% smooth cuzz i think it's death.
The shit would go straight to market like many other partial dewaxes that are just "smoother" but not clean.
As for neeem and the other shit, that's all tempurature fall out from freezing. If you can go sub sub cold when you winterize you can make all the neem freeze to the bottom of the flask and decant the clean part. Otherwise it just shows up as a cloud layer and passes right through all filters. Happends for me between -40c to -50c otherwise it won't suspend.
I'm just pointing to the art form as being barely scratched at by most people. Yeah i booted the neem growers to the curb, but they'll just move on to another extract artist who will go on spreading filth.
I feel kinda wrong for doing that knowing i'm the only one i know who could keep the good and remove the bad.
A few people have sent off the fats and waxes to labs and posted results, BUT it's all about that starting material, i've got a library of winterizing filter's that after the fats oxidized goes from bright orange to pure blacks.
Remember that Bubba Kush that was Sucide material black?
Well after learning that -40-50c zone i went back over it with a higher alcohol to oil ratios n cleaned that neem shit that made me think i sucked the fuck out. That was my 4th time winterizing the same oil in over 4 months cuzz i never tried to sell it. All that bubba sold now so I can honestly say as bad ass as I thought i was at winterizing last month compared to everyone else. I didn't know shit compared to today, so when people say i winterize it's not a closed statement or promise of quality at all for sure.
I'm just starting to get a sense of which grower mistake produces which discoloration i see in the filtered fats. I do know all Black tar tar I get taste like plastic is neem, where the brown/black stuff taste neutral but wont shatter that's magnesium/molasses abuse..... Not everything flushes in 14 days...
I hope these anecdote's are food for thought, I can at least help debunk certain beleif systems by talking about the counter flow way I do things. For instance D-limonene will never ever single solvent dewax for me, i have to second solvent but your simpler alkanes will, I wonder if hexane will single solvent dewax.
I know id bet on you getting a better single solvent "In Blast Tube" dewax than they are getting Iso'ing it up in the freezer. Sweet leaf v2 i believe does in line close loop single solvent dewax during extraction which is prolly getting people 70% of the way.
I know winterizing enuff to know where people fuck up, let water slip in, take the quick bastard route. I know all my demons and I can easily see why people wouldn't go through the hardship.
I'm unfortunately become so sensitive to the stuff that I threw a hissy fit yesterday that I made a batch of poison and I blamed running kief. Later in the night i kept tasting the oil over n over again trying to find this trace that bothered me n made my throat scratch on this 100g batch.
Well today i winterized it again n low and behold is another 2 grams of wax, I looked through my old filters n found a bend in the paper where shit must of slipped by.
Nobody i know has the equipment to just say fuck it we'll start over because i wont sell this shit that's only 95% smooth cuzz i think it's death.
The shit would go straight to market like many other partial dewaxes that are just "smoother" but not clean.
As for neeem and the other shit, that's all tempurature fall out from freezing. If you can go sub sub cold when you winterize you can make all the neem freeze to the bottom of the flask and decant the clean part. Otherwise it just shows up as a cloud layer and passes right through all filters. Happends for me between -40c to -50c otherwise it won't suspend.
I'm just pointing to the art form as being barely scratched at by most people. Yeah i booted the neem growers to the curb, but they'll just move on to another extract artist who will go on spreading filth.
I feel kinda wrong for doing that knowing i'm the only one i know who could keep the good and remove the bad.
A few people have sent off the fats and waxes to labs and posted results, BUT it's all about that starting material, i've got a library of winterizing filter's that after the fats oxidized goes from bright orange to pure blacks.
Remember that Bubba Kush that was Sucide material black?
Well after learning that -40-50c zone i went back over it with a higher alcohol to oil ratios n cleaned that neem shit that made me think i sucked the fuck out. That was my 4th time winterizing the same oil in over 4 months cuzz i never tried to sell it. All that bubba sold now so I can honestly say as bad ass as I thought i was at winterizing last month compared to everyone else. I didn't know shit compared to today, so when people say i winterize it's not a closed statement or promise of quality at all for sure.
I'm just starting to get a sense of which grower mistake produces which discoloration i see in the filtered fats. I do know all Black tar tar I get taste like plastic is neem, where the brown/black stuff taste neutral but wont shatter that's magnesium/molasses abuse..... Not everything flushes in 14 days...
I hope these anecdote's are food for thought, I can at least help debunk certain beleif systems by talking about the counter flow way I do things. For instance D-limonene will never ever single solvent dewax for me, i have to second solvent but your simpler alkanes will, I wonder if hexane will single solvent dewax.
SaybianTv
Active Member
Qwizo i guess im mainling thinking of production hash artist when im charging people with skipping a step or not for the all mighty dollar or just sheer lazyness. I get exactly why people don't commercially winterize it's fucken impractical, time consuming, frought with danger, n you could cause the dreaded auto butter from a moisture accident. N well if your grandma rings you during filtering all hell could break loose. I saw that ages ago when i still had no clue if my solvent would allow me to enter the game. In my country dry ice is 3-5 dollars a pound from 1 place that is mon-friday 7-4. That's it for the bud capitol of canada. That's the only obvious way to speed the game up and that in of itself is another pain in the ass.
I agree single solvent is like the sunlight chlorophill trick, not to mention it's a death sentence as far as im concerned. BUT i gotta take my hat off to those people risking a death sentence to commercially make cleaner meds rather than just passing the buck n throwing there hands up. I double take my hat's of for the people who put down the 6 grand and steped into In-line close loop dewaxing.
I can't hate on people doing there best when I know there's many more doing jack shit. It's not my problem that for 1500 bux a labconco refridgerated cold trap allows me to bypass all that shit i mentioned above... Not my fault if for 1500 bux the cold trap allows ALL extractions i do to be at -50c "TERPCITY", it's not my fault if I get ALL my alcohol back over n over again lowering my cost of going the super extra mile.
None of you had to deal with my wife when I wanted to kill myself if i couldn't comercial winterize so yeah im luvin the subsequent spoils now that I'm educated enuff to know that stupid run up my credit card with zero good oil to prove im worth shit move was one of the best decisions of my life. The only thing that tops it is my rotovape.
Ne ways i guess im saying don't hate too hard on people doing what they can, i don't have a problem with people poisoning themselves in learning. I just don't want them outside telling people you need to dab this.
I think i miss you guys why im posting so much....420 steam.....
I agree single solvent is like the sunlight chlorophill trick, not to mention it's a death sentence as far as im concerned. BUT i gotta take my hat off to those people risking a death sentence to commercially make cleaner meds rather than just passing the buck n throwing there hands up. I double take my hat's of for the people who put down the 6 grand and steped into In-line close loop dewaxing.
I can't hate on people doing there best when I know there's many more doing jack shit. It's not my problem that for 1500 bux a labconco refridgerated cold trap allows me to bypass all that shit i mentioned above... Not my fault if for 1500 bux the cold trap allows ALL extractions i do to be at -50c "TERPCITY", it's not my fault if I get ALL my alcohol back over n over again lowering my cost of going the super extra mile.
None of you had to deal with my wife when I wanted to kill myself if i couldn't comercial winterize so yeah im luvin the subsequent spoils now that I'm educated enuff to know that stupid run up my credit card with zero good oil to prove im worth shit move was one of the best decisions of my life. The only thing that tops it is my rotovape.
Ne ways i guess im saying don't hate too hard on people doing what they can, i don't have a problem with people poisoning themselves in learning. I just don't want them outside telling people you need to dab this.
I think i miss you guys why im posting so much....420 steam.....