Why cant we legalize marijuana on the merits alone? Without any red herrings!

The bottom line is that marijuana smokers want marijuana legal. They love marijuana. They want a legal market for them to buy their marijuana and not have to rely on dangerous criminals off the black market. They dont want to be treated like criminals. They want to have the right to grow and use marijuana in their home without having to worry about the cops busting down their door and locking them up in a cage for life. They just want the same rights as beer drinkers and to not be bothered. Thats the real reason why marijuana smokers want marijuana legalized. Its safer than alcohol and hasnt killed anyone... I long for the day when I could walk into a store and get a pack of marijuana joints. Or a bag of whatever strain I want or pot sodas or pot brownies........



But whenever these pro marijuana groups run a campaign such as Amendment 64 in Colorado or I-502 in Washington, They dont focus on any of that! Instead they will say things like

It would create billions of $$$ in tax revenue
It would create thousands/millions of jobs
It would save our economy and our country
It would put the drug cartels out of business
It would put a stop to all the unjust arrests for blacks and hispanics
Regulating marijuana would keep it would of the hands of kids since black market drug dealers dont ask for id
Prohibition doesnt work



Another thing they might do is hide behind hemp or medical marijuana as try to use that as an excuse to make marijuana outright legal. They say things like hemp will save the world even thought most of them dont really give a damn about hemp. Every other country outside the US grows hemp and its not saving those countries. And with medical marijuana, theyll hide behind the patients. Theyll try to make anyone against medical marijuana look like monsters with no compassion. Yes it has medical value and it works well, but they see it as just a first step towards legalization. Most of the so called medical marijuana patients are just stoners looking to get high.




Whether or not legalizing marijuana will bring in any tax revenue or lose money through social costs, whether it helps or hurts crime rates, the economy and productivity, whether or not legalizing and regulating it will keep it out of the hands of kids, whether it has any effect on the drug cartels or black incarceration rate,,, all of that is IRRELEVANT to pot smokers! They just want to smoke, buy and grow their pot legally in peace! Thats all!


Shouldnt the pro marijuana movement be able to win on the merits alone without having to use deceptive red herrings and straw man arguments? Win by being honest?
Whats your thoughts on this?

The merits alone were not enough to do anything for decades.
Legalization is up against special interest groups, ranging from
Law enforcement, alcohol companies, pharma companies etc.

It is also the perception of MJ by everyday people that
was twisted by the decades old war on drugs and the propaganda
machine.

Times are changing, there is a shift in mentality but every little step
counts. People need to see it for what it really is in order for laws to change.
The MediMj lobby has done a great job in this respect.

Hell I don't want them to LEGALIZE!!! Fuck NO. Can you imagine, all of a sudden reefer is treated like cigarettes, massive companies eating up all the little guys that can't produce on massive scale, and just think what guys like Montsanto will do to it with their trans-gene technology... Friggin RoundUp Ready WEED??? NONONONONONONONONO. NO. NONONONONONO> Not on Surge's watch...

Reefer is in THE RIGHT HANDS at the moment, OURS. Who gives a rat's ass if they want to persecute us, if you do this shit right you'll have enough money to fight back and cover the backs of your friends. My community will take better care of my family if I cannot, my government will not do a single fucking thing.

We are outlaws, and that makes us BROTHERS. This is a family. I don't want to lose it to big business. KEEP REEFER ILLEGAL!!!

*damn the man! Save the empire!*

I dont grow for profit, only personal use. I would prefer to live at home

than go to jail for smoking some weed.

I see your point,but all those things you named affect us.
The gov started the so called war,at the moment gov controls weed,the gov operates on money.
Which special interest pays which politician the most money,so money actually controls weed.
We need more money to get any where with gov.
These special interest groups have owned politicians for a long,long time they have a heavy relationship with them.
So we need to get the politicians replaced with pro legalization politicians,we need to vote & vote often.
Like the lady that worked at the poll,she wanted her vote to count so she voted for obama 12 times.
I'm not saying carry it that far,but we got to want it that bad.
I don't have any money,but I can help by not giving those special groups (like cigs) my money there by hurting there bottom line.
I don't know where all that came from,not even sure about it.
One thing I do know for sure,BACK NORMAL!!! Peace

KushKrew said:

Hell I don't want them to LEGALIZE!!! Fuck NO. Can you imagine, all of a sudden reefer is treated like cigarettes, massive companies eating up all the little guys that can't produce on massive scale, and just think what guys like Montsanto will do to it with their trans-gene technology... Friggin RoundUp Ready WEED??? NONONONONONONONONO. NO. NONONONONONO> Not on Surge's watch...

Click to expand...

That's a great point and made me laugh. But I disagree to an extent. If it were legal and you can still get good genetics online overseas then it'll be all good. Grow your own or go to the store its your choice.

bizarrojohnson said:

That's a great point and made me laugh. But I disagree to an extent. If it were legal and you can still get good genetics online overseas then it'll be all good. Grow your own or go to the store its your choice.

Click to expand...

I disagree with that point completely, I dont care if a small portion of Mj users grow to make money or not. The rest of us should not
be jailed because a handful want to supplement their income with weed.

People like that are wrong, plain and simple. The way I look at people like that is they would rather see "innocent users" jailed so
they can make a buck. They are no better than the Leo's who fight legalization to save their jobs knowing full well Mj users are for the most
part not criminals until they are criminalized for smoking weed.

No respect from me for any of that crap.

ricky1lung said:

I disagree with that point completely, I dont care if a small portion of Mj users grow to make money or not. The rest of us should not
be jailed because a handful want to supplement their income with weed.

People like that are wrong, plain and simple. The way I look at people like that is they would rather see "innocent users" jailed so
they can make a buck. They are no better than the Leo's who fight legalization to save their jobs knowing full well Mj users are for the most
part not criminals until they are criminalized for smoking weed.

No respect from me for any of that crap.

Click to expand...

are you getting the impression that I want it illegal? No, his point was that if weed were legal then they would fuck it up with all kind of genetic modifications. What I was saying is if weed was legal who cares if they go and make crappy mutant weed? As long as I can still get my own quality genetics from overseas then you can just grow your own and you don't have to buy there mutated weed.

bizarrojohnson said:

are you getting the impression that I want it illegal? No, his point was that if weed were legal then they would fuck it up with all kind of genetic modifications. What I was saying is if we're legal who cares if they go and make crappy mutant weed? As long as I can still get my own quality genetics from overseas then you can just grow your own and you don't have to buy there mutated weed.

Click to expand...

No no, my mini rant wasn't directed at you.
There will always be a preservation of genetics IMO.
For the most part MJ users hold gens dear to them and want to
keep them true. I dont see the vast majority of people
who grow buying into that sort of genetics. Heck most people
want purer strains then the breeders have right now so they can breed
their own.

The Monsanto thing is a scare tactic that just doesn't jive.

I do not agree with keeping it illegal so a handful
can profit while millions of common users go to jail for as little as
a dime bag.

My apologies to you bizarro

No apologies needed I feel you. It's bullshit, one of reasons that if it isn't legal within the next 4 years I might go somewhere where it is. Why should I go to jail with the murderers and rapists for smoking a little pot? Or growing a little pot just to smoke? I have a small op going 2 plants max. I'd hate to be a felon bc of that.

vuttomundo said:

The bottom line is that marijuana smokers want marijuana legal. They love marijuana. They want a legal market for them to buy their marijuana and not have to rely on dangerous criminals off the black market.
Regulating marijuana would keep it would of the hands of kids since black market drug dealers dont ask for id
Whats your thoughts on this?

Click to expand...

This thread is wrong on so many levels it's funny!

Milovan said:

This thread is wrong on so many levels it funny as shit!
The bottom line is not all marijuana smokers want it legalized.
I've been smoking pot 36 years and I would consider legalized
pot a nightmare to say the least. Regulate and tax a natural
plant? Commercialize it? Ha ha ha ha, what a complete joke lmao!
Not rely on dangerous criminals off the black market?
Lmao bigtime!

This has got to be the most wrong and lamest post ever on RIU!
My friends and I got a big laugh out of this post. What a complete joke!
Next time speak for yourself cause you are not speaking for all stoners.
Fuck legalization BIGTIME lmao!

Click to expand...

Hey guy, First off Im not a "stoner".
I smoke weed but really that "stoner" term needs to change.

The stereotypical "stoner" is a burnt out dumb ass, Im neither burnt out or
a dumb ass and Im sure a large portion of people here would not consider themselves
to be either.

Second,

Do you think you should go to jail because you grow a plant or two for your own
personal smoke? Commercialization of a product opens up new opportunities, it gives
people who grow for profit the ability to go legit and do something for themselves (eg start a business)

There will be allot, the smart will prevail and so will big business, but the smart little people
can also get into the big business club.

Regulation and tax helps everyone. Your roads and schools have been built on regulation and taxation.

Milovan said:

This thread is wrong on so many levels it's funny as hell!
The bottom line is not all marijuana smokers want it legalized.
I've been smoking pot 36 years and I would consider legalized
pot a nightmare to say the least. Regulate and tax a natural
plant? Commercialize it? Ha ha ha ha, what a complete joke lmao!
Not rely on dangerous criminals off the black market?p
Lmao bigtime!

This has got to be the most wrong and lamest post ever on RIU!
My friends and I got a big laugh out of this post. What a complete joke!
Next time speak for yourself cause you are not speaking for all stoners.
Fuck legalization BIGTIME lmao!

Click to expand...

i for one dont wnat weed to be taxed like booze or smokes. i agree if you sell it or grow for profit, you should pay income tax like anyone else. but no more tax pats that.

weed should deffinitly be decriminalized, and it should be possible for us to earn a living at it like anyobe else.

on issue with legalizing it is the price will drop thru the floor when walmart opens their own grow. they will put us all outta work. Theres no way me, or anyone else here could compete with walmart or costco.

legalizing could hurt us more than it helps. we shouldnt go to the can for ganja, but if thats what it takes to keep some of us earning, so be it.

there are alot of issues with legalization. i like how milo noticed this.

and the only real criminals in the weed game are gangs. and as i dont supply gangs, they have to rely on schwag producers for their supply. Gangs usually have little sucsess in areas where really skilled growers opperate. they cant get into the market so they usually do other shit. but if they do identify their competition (happened to me once in van) they will run ya right outta town or worse. they dont like competition.

fuck gangs tho, i wont supply them cause its morally wrong, and i think most gangs are pussy ass. thdy have no respect or dignity.

lucky for me, out here, theres no gangs, and my product is known out here from past time spent. i have no real competition. the only other for profit grower out here grows bush schwag ditch weed. and i know hes already hurting cause im out here. walmart would murder him if they started growing the shit. he would have no one left to sell it to.

The dangerous criminals of the black market? Give me a break, it's nothing but a total myth that pot is some sort of major funding source for crime at any level. A small portion does sure, but it such a small number that it's pretty meaningless.

kushhound187 said:

i for one dont wnat weed to be taxed like booze or smokes. i agree if you sell it or grow for profit, you should pay income tax like anyone else. but no more tax pats that.

weed should deffinitly be decriminalized, and it should be possible for us to earn a living at it like anyobe else.

on issue with legalizing it is the price will drop thru the floor when walmart opens their own grow. they will put us all outta work. Theres no way me, or anyone else here could compete with walmart or costco.

legalizing could hurt us more than it helps. we shouldnt go to the can for ganja, but if thats what it takes to keep some of us earning, so be it.

there are alot of issues with legalization. i like how milo noticed this.

and the only real criminals in the weed game are gangs. and as i dont supply gangs, they have to rely on schwag producers for their supply. Gangs usually have little sucsess in areas where really skilled growers opperate. they cant get into the market so they usually do other shit. but if they do identify their competition (happened to me once in van) they will run ya right outta town or worse. they dont like competition.

fuck gangs tho, i wont supply them cause its morally wrong, and i think most gangs are pussy ass. thdy have no respect or dignity.

lucky for me, out here, theres no gangs, and my product is known out here from past time spent. i have no real competition. the only other for profit grower out here grows bush schwag ditch weed. and i know hes already hurting cause im out here. walmart would murder him if they started growing the shit. he would have no one left to sell it to.

Click to expand...

Sort of right but not at all.

Walmart = Vendor
They dont grow it, nor will they. The investment in land is enough for them not to. Vendors want to maximize profit, so yes they will buy low
but they wont produce.

The big farmers are who will come in and get a cut, not the walmarts or other vendors, but small farmers also have a stake in grain markets and have not been forced out by the large farmers. The smart ones grow, it's all relative.

ricky1lung said:

Hey guy, First off Im not a "stoner".
I smoke weed but really that "stoner" term needs to change.

The stereotypical "stoner" is a burnt out dumb ass, Im neither burnt out or
a dumb ass and Im sure a large portion of people here would not consider themselves
to be either.

Second,

Do you think you should go to jail because you grow a plant or two for your own
personal smoke? Commercialization of a product opens up new opportunities, it gives
people who grow for profit the ability to go legit and do something for themselves (eg start a business)

There will be allot, the smart will prevail and so will big business, but the smart little people
can also get into the big business club.

Regulation and tax helps everyone. Your roads and schools have been built on regulation and taxation.

Click to expand...

Firstly, you and I are friends here and nothing will change that but this
has to be the 2nd most no nonsense post in the history of RIU.

"

• I smoke weed but really that "stoner" term needs to change.
  
  The stereotypical "stoner" is a burnt out dumb ass, Im neither burnt out or
  a dumb ass and Im sure a large portion of people here would not consider themselves
  to be either."
  
  Wrong wrong wrong! I really can't believe you actually said this!
  My friends and I have always been stoners and far from burnt out dumb asses.
  
  "The term "stoner" needs to change"
  
  Really? You can't be serious!
  
  "​
  • "Im sure a large portion of people here would not consider themselves
    to be either."
    
    Could be wrong.
    
    Forget legalization, taxation and regulation.
    Keep it illegal! So says I and many stoners
    I know. Many. These burnt out stoner friends of
    mine make $25 - $40 and hour working as carpenters and
    for the movie studios here in L.A.
    
    Other than that lets stay friends! : )​
  
  
  
  
  
  

Thats right Milovan, we are friends and should remain.

But look at the stereotype through the eyes of a non smoker. That is where my statement
is based upon. The stereotypical stoner in the eyes of a non smoker is just what I laid out.

Im not that, I dont want to be labeled as such for smoking weed. I dont really think anyone
who does smoke wants that label attached to them.

I own my business, bought my house and land mortgage free from the work I do in my career.
Trust me Im no slouch, but should I have to risk my freedom and lively hood for smoking weed?
Should I allow myself, or other smart people to be looked upon as a stereotypical "stoner" for smoking
weed?

That is what I take issue with, it's not how we look at ourselves, it is how outside non users look at smokers.
That's why I suggest the term needs to change. Thats why I will not call myself a stoner but have no problem being
a smoker.

legalize - healing of a nation. you people who prefer to be oppressed are the lame ones, there is not legitiment argument for oppression. end of story.

ricky1lung said:

Thats right Milovan, we are friends and should remain.

But look at the stereotype through the eyes of a non smoker. That is where my statement
is based upon. The stereotypical stoner in the eyes of a non smoker is just what I laid out.

Im not that, I dont want to be labeled as such for smoking weed. I dont really think anyone
who does smoke wants that label attached to them.

I own my business, bought my house and land mortgage free from the work I do in my career.
Trust me Im no slouch, but should I have to risk my freedom and lively hood for smoking weed?
Should I allow myself, or other smart people to be looked upon as a stereotypical "stoner" for smoking
weed?

That is what I take issue with, it's not how we look at ourselves, it is how outside non users look at smokers.
That's why I suggest the term needs to change. Thats why I will not call myself a stoner but have no problem being
a smoker.

Click to expand...

Excellent good buddy and I respect your opinion. Very glad to
be good friends! I look froward to your posts always.