When are the commercial cob panels coming

Positivity said:

Good luck to the small guys...

If I was a little younger or less busy I'd consider the same

Small boutique builders... Sounds like a good market infusion



Just please keep the cheap stuff off the website...

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Still no website here...
But neither cheap stuff ...

I wish i could show you with some pics ,the "satisfaction" of the V users ....
The bottle -sized colas ,my eyes 've seen ,in some cases ..
Vero 29 COB arrays are amazing ...
.....


Pos,I do not think is a matter of age ..(I'm almost 40 ..)

Mater artium necessitas

" Νecessity is the mother of invention (arts) .... "


Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

Mater artium necessitas

" Νecessity is the mother of invention (arts) .... "



View attachment 3409477

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I was taking a shower yesterday and began thinking about COB fixtures and how some look nicer than others, while others boast better functionality. I soon came to the conclusion that functionality comes first, and then only after does the ascetics or icing, because one cannot exist before the other, as one serves foremost as a function while the other is directed towards pleasure. Function is a necessity but can also serve as a pleasure, while pleasure is merely a desire.

The same goes for civilization; a stable community or country must establish itself and then after seize some balance of peace and war in order for its inhabitants to truly produce pleasurable art, hence all the great fragments that came from the Renaissance era.

AquariusPanta said:

I was taking a shower yesterday and began thinking about COB fixtures and how some look nicer than others, while others boast better functionality. I soon came to the conclusion that functionality comes first, and then only after does the ascetics or icing, because one cannot exist before the other, as one serves foremost as a function while the other is directed towards pleasure. Function is a necessity but can also serve as a pleasure, while pleasure is merely a desire.

The same goes for civilization; a stable community or country must establish itself and then after seize some balance of peace and war in order for its inhabitants to truly produce pleasurable art, hence all the great fragments that came from the Renaissance era.

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what comes next?

KarmaPaymentPlan said:

what comes next?

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That's for you to decide.

AquariusPanta said:

That's for you to decide.

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or for the people to decide. ....Baltimore that is all

Btw anyone who needs a websiteshould message me. A buddy of mine can make one from scratch, to your tastes. No wWordPress templates..

AquariusPanta said:

I was taking a shower yesterday and began thinking about COB fixtures and how some look nicer than others, while others boast better functionality. I soon came to the conclusion that functionality comes first, and then only after does the ascetics or icing, because one cannot exist before the other, as one serves foremost as a function while the other is directed towards pleasure. Function is a necessity but can also serve as a pleasure, while pleasure is merely a desire.

The same goes for civilization; a stable community or country must establish itself and then after seize some balance of peace and war in order for its inhabitants to truly produce pleasurable art, hence all the great fragments that came from the Renaissance era.

Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it any better

AquariusPanta said:

I was taking a shower yesterday and began thinking about COB fixtures and how some look nicer than others, while others boast better functionality. I soon came to the conclusion that functionality comes first, and then only after does the ascetics or icing, because one cannot exist before the other, as one serves foremost as a function while the other is directed towards pleasure. Function is a necessity but can also serve as a pleasure, while pleasure is merely a desire.

The same goes for civilization; a stable community or country must establish itself and then after seize some balance of peace and war in order for its inhabitants to truly produce pleasurable art, hence all the great fragments that came from the Renaissance era.

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Let your mind rest a tad and try to avoid thinking ,at least while taking a shower ...
Better start singing instead .
Things are not so simple ,to philosophize them in the shower ...

Stupid-simple analogous :

I was taking a crap last night and I was thinking ...


^^^ Pure functionality.A true work-horse.Cheap to obtain and service .


^^^ Definately the best looks . And pure pleasure to drive .



^^^^ The "High-End " stuff ....Raw power AND looks AND pleasure to drive ...
Price : Just forget it ...


And then at a point ,it came to me ...
Better to start thinking of my ex instead ,while taking a crap ...


Cheers.

Generally, when it comes to lighting, more traditional designs are considered "more visually pleasing". Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. I don't mean to be offensive, but most beholders would not think a box with 4 portholes to heaven is aesthetically pleasing. (any more pleasing than their old VCRs)

The more traditional designs are also terrible at reflecting light. They light up the sky more than the things you're trying to see on earth.


(good for a vert grow!)


Of course, only your weed plants can see what your weed lamp looks like. Part of the function of human lighting is aesthetics in the first place.

Some people like the industrial look of bare heatsinks.

bicit said:

Some people like the industrial look of bare heatsinks.

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To me, simplicity is beauty. In general, the more features there are, the more ugly I'll think something is. Beauty is when my headlights are shaped like rectangles instead of uniquely shaped squint eyes.. Beauty is when you can write your whole system in a few hundred lines of code rather than a few million lines.

I could care less about aesthetics unless we are talking about my girls. When it comes to a light, I want functionality, and I want the best. If I pay for the best, I want to be able to justify in my mind that after my initial purchase my light will still be the best. That comes in the form of not only a well-known business name, but of good customer service. I can't wait till the market blows up.

Btw, any of y'all that want to talk about Their startup LeD companies PM me. I'm always down to shoot the shit so to speak.

Everyone has a different perspective of things .
Diversion ..
Otherwise things would have been really boring ...


Same goes for the LED grow light scene ....

My own perspective might be quite different of others ...
I'm already -pretty much- aware of my weird way of seeing things ...
I'll try to explain shortly ...

- Cased LED fixtures have may advantages ,far from aesthetics ...
They further dampen the fan noise .They allow the use of open-frame electronics .
And since LED drivers are cooled by free-air convention ...yes...
There's a diffrence in operation between an open-frame driver vs a Class II / IP67 encased one ...Actually it has couple of names ,already ...ICalled "thermal derating " of the driver and / or
" reduced capacitor life due to high temps " ...

Also in possible servicing ..(replacing a cap ) ,
open -frame electronics are lot's easier to fix than of
epoxy dipped ,encased ones ...And almost anyone with basic soldering skills can
spot a blown cap,on an open -frame circuit and easily replace it ...
KInda a "MIL " standard practice also .The fixture can be "fixed" ,instead of
replacing whole driver units ...Simple analog electronics are superior in that manner ,
than complex MCU /PLC....
Faster ,cheaper,easier to replace a 555 timer than replacing an Arduino ...


-Having the COBs bare and unprotected by any sort of screen ,saves >10% of photons from being absorbed .
Better randomly reflected-they might make it,reaching the canopy- ,than absorbed .

-Simplicity ? What's more simple than a plug and a rotary switch ?

-Extra features ? yes ,if they are kinda of necessary and simple enough ..
An EMI filter and delay relay circuit ,offer stable operation and eliminate the problem of accumulated inrush current.

-A driver per COB ? Yes...In case of failing ,one of the four COBs will go OFF ..Not ,all of them ..

-Aesthetics ? Basically ,I can call it " camouflage " ....
Part of the whole "stealth " idea ...
And I can ensure you ,that almost everyone around here, likes & appreciates a LED grow light ,
that if placed ,for some " unexpected " reason ,besides an CD player in the living room ,
it "auto-conceals" itrself ,seeming to be some sort of expensive audio equipment ..


and I can go on and on explaining more about cooling ,functionality ,durability ,corrosion resistance ,
service life of parts ,servicibility ,simplicity ,protection ,efficiency ,safety ,looks ,etc ...

But it won't make any further difference ..
Some will continue drilling & tapping ,nailing and hammering ,
others will use tape or glue instead ..

Diversion ,the first-born child of Evolution ...


Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

Diversion ,the first-born child of Evolution ...


Cheers.

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Making Resistance, or "Evolution", the father of Diversion? I'm afraid you have to have one before the other, at least in this case.

AquariusPanta said:

Making Resistance, or "Evolution", the father of Diversion? I'm afraid you have to have one before the other, at least in this case.

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Well,if we want really to philosophize about it ,no ...
The "father" of Diversion is "acclimation" (short-term wise ) and/or "adaptation" (long-term wise ) .

As with life and existence ,the general idea or concept of "being present " ,
and feeling free to hypothesize that " everything is a form-fraction -aka "fractal" - of everything",
then the above rules apply for everything else ,LED grow lights included ...

The "Necessity" gives birth to " Art " ( in the manner of ideas ,inventions ,etc ) ...

Then the Art ,via the "Acclimation-Adaptation" (to different diverse variables,like electricity cost ,space ,ambient temperatures ,etc ) + "Evolution" intercoursing ,brings Diversity to the scene ....
Thing is that none and nothing is perfect and never will be ..
And that because none or nothing can be adapted/acclimated to every possible "environment"
(or taste-style .....) and/or situation ...

Take for example the off-road vehicles ...
All of them designed for off-road use ...
Still some are good at "x" terrain and weather ,load ,etc ,while others are excelling in
different off road environments and situations ..

You have Lada Nivas ,Wranglers ,Jeep ,Land Rovers ,Range Rovers ,VW Tuaregs,Porche Cayennes ,
Mercedes G class ,Lamborghini LMs (! ) and the list continues further with more european ,american and asian
off road vehicles ..
All different ,none perfect .

Fabulous Fractal Forming Feature ...
Nature's way of Life multiplying and expanding .
Full of F ..
Hm..
The "origin of species" explained in four words ,starting with F ...
Find - Flirt -Fuck - Forget ..
....
Furthermore ..Do you actually know what "LADA" means ?
LADA comes from the norwegian phrase " Laget Av Diverse Avfall "
" Made of various waste ".....

Cheap No-name asian COBs and grow lights , are pretty much functional,too .... IYKWIM ...

....
And now,I 'm in the need for one more joint ...



Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

Well,if we want really to philosophize about it ,no ...
The "father" of Diversion is "acclimation" (short-term wise ) and/or "adaptation" (long-term wise ) .

As with life and existence ,the general idea or concept of "being present " ,
and feeling free to hypothesize that " everything is a form-fraction -aka "fractal" - of everything",
then the above rules apply for everything else ,LED grow lights included ...

The "Necessity" gives birth to " Art " ( in the manner of ideas ,inventions ,etc ) ...

Then the Art ,via the "Acclimation-Adaptation" (to different diverse variables,like electricity cost ,space ,ambient temperatures ,etc ) + "Evolution" intercoursing ,brings Diversity to the scene ....
Thing is that none and nothing is perfect and never will be ..
And that because none or nothing can be adapted/acclimated to every possible "environment"
(or taste-style .....) and/or situation ...

Take for example the off-road vehicles ...
All of them designed for off-road use ...
Still some are good at "x" terrain and weather ,load ,etc ,while others are excelling in
different off road environments and situations ..

You have Lada Nivas ,Wranglers ,Jeep ,Land Rovers ,Range Rovers ,VW Tuaregs,Porche Cayennes ,
Mercedes G class ,Lamborghini LMs (! ) and the list continues further with more european ,american and asian
off road vehicles ..
All different ,none perfect .

Fabulous Fractal Forming Feature ...
Nature's way of Life multiplying and expanding .
Full of F ..
Hm..
The "origin of species" explained in four words ,starting with F ...
Find - Flirt -Fuck - Forget ..
....
Furthermore ..Do you actually know what "LADA" means ?
LADA comes from the norwegian phrase " Laget Av Diverse Avfall "
" Made of various waste ".....

Cheap No-name asian COBs and grow lights , are pretty much functional,too .... IYKWIM ...

....
And now,I 'm in the need for one more joint ...



Cheers.

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It's easy to get lost in words, especially when their someone else's because their understanding over one subject can never exactly be the same as your own.

Without using improper words, such as father or daughter, I prefer analogies instead; who really knows who knocked who up in the beginning (big bang).



The analogy that led me to my previous comment was that diversion is as water flowing through a river bed while the earth acts as resistance. You see that without resistance, there can be no diversion. Instead, you would just have continual drive in one direction, with the level of velocity and acceleration for water being up for argument.

Also, beliefs can be thought of as hats; you put one on and if you like it, you keep it. If you don't, you just take it off and wait until you find another that fits your fancy.



Lastly, I believe necessity can give "give birth" to art but I don't believe that art is solely dependent on necessity for it's origin. This is all, of course, disputable because of how we define necessity (as well as art).

I'm good, how about you, Sailor?

stardustsailor said:

Cheap No-name asian COBs and grow lights , are pretty much functional,too .... IYKWIM ...

....
And now,I 'm in the need for one more joint ...



Cheers.

Click to expand...

The cheap no-name asian grow lights all have cases. It's only DIY builds that don't. A lot of the advantages you listed are not actually advantages. While "open frame drivers" is a cost/space advantage, "1 driver per cob" is not. I hang my 1 encased driver on the ceiling of my tent using straps. "1 driver per cob" is one of the major criticisms by LED critics, and I agree with that criticism. That's insane. In fact, the 1 driver also has high efficiency. (upto 94%), which was a major reason why I picked it. It even looks sleek! I love the way HLG-C looks.

Look, I think the quality of your work is amazing (way better than I could do with metal), but to suggest your lamp has better functionality because of it's sleek form is a bit of a stretch. Is the goal really to make the lamp more silent? Wouldn't removing the case make it even more silent? (less back pressure and turbulence) Also, without a case, there's extra money in the budget for a larger heat sink. You put 4 vero 29 at 2.1A right next to each other on a relatively small heat sink so it makes sense you'd complain about fan noise. You can not hear anything from my vero 18 based UFO killers at 700mA. (4 less powerful heat sources on a larger heat sink, farther away from each other) This might be moot point if a case is required for certification, but that's not your argument.

churchhaze said:

The cheap no-name asian grow lights all have cases. It's only DIY builds that don't. A lot of the advantages you listed are not actually advantages. While "open frame drivers" is a cost/space advantage, "1 driver per cob" is not. I hang my 1 encased driver on the ceiling of my tent using straps. "1 driver per cob" is one of the major criticisms by LED critics, and I agree with that criticism. That's insane. In fact, the "1 driver" also has high efficiency. (upto 94%), which was a major reason why I picked it. It even looks sleek! I love the way HLG-C looks.

Look, I think the quality of your work is amazing (way better than I could do with metal), but to suggest your lamp has better functionality because of it's sleek form is a bit of a stretch. Is the goal really to make the lamp more silent? Wouldn't removing the case make it even more silent? (less back pressure and turbulence) Also, without a case, there's extra money in the budget for a larger heat sink. You put 4 vero 29 at 2.1A right next to each other on a relatively small heat sink so it makes sense you'd complain about fan noise. You can not hear anything from my vero 18 based UFO killers at 700mA. (4 less powerful heat sources on a larger heat sink, farther away from each other) This might be moot point if a case is required for certification, but that's not your argument.

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In regards to your argument of one driver per COB vs. one driver for all COBS, it really comes down to the setup. I'm sure you'll agree with me on this one, Church.

I don't know how these MW drivers tend to last in the grow rooms but the main advantage that I see, when rolling with multiple drivers, is greater assurance that your grow setup won't be dark when it's not suppose to be.

Now individuals are most likely growing in either a single tent or a large room. If people are growing in a large room, there should be no worries of lights going out due to driver failure; it's very unlikely that two or more sets of drivers crap out on two or more sets of fixtures. If an individual is growing in a tent and only has a single fixture, it may be worth the extra amount of money in electricity each month to roll with multiple but less efficient drivers. Again, every setup is different so anything can be debated but this is my outlook on the controversy between the stated topic.

I agree that Sailor is truly an Artist when it comes to fixture-crafting; he's one of a kind!



I don't understand how driving a COB affects fan noise?

My personal use lamps are passive, but the cost makes me doubt it would be a viable business design. I say that knowing there are passive lamps on the market. The case isn't cheap but it's less than the aluminum needed to replace the fan. I've played around with various decibel rated fans and anything above mid 40s is starting to get loud. For that reason I wouldn't use anything over 45dB commercially but I'd guess there are many situations where the buyer wouldn't care if they were 60+ decibels. That's the diversity you guys are talking about.

For that matter, there might be a market for passive COB lamps but it's probably not the best flagship product idea. Coming up with a design that does a good job of hiding the wires and targeting the grower with money to burn could be viable strategy for an established company. Less fans and lower amps = better efficiency, but it seems like a hard sell getting people to see lamps as hot rods or saving a few bucks a month down the road for their small grows. Cheap and effective is what most people are going to want. Finding the balance between cost efficiency and longevity is the trick and fans seem helpful in that regard. People want quality... as long as it doesn't cost "too much".

Rahz said:

My personal use lamps are passive, but the cost makes me doubt it would be a viable business design. I say that knowing there are passive lamps on the market. The case isn't cheap but it's less than the aluminum needed to replace the fan. I've played around with various decibel rated fans and anything above mid 40s is starting to get loud. For that reason I wouldn't use anything over 45dB commercially but I'd guess there are many situations where the buyer wouldn't care if they were 60+ decibels. That's the diversity you guys are talking about.

For that matter, there might be a market for passive COB lamps but it's probably not the best flagship product idea. Coming up with a design that does a good job of hiding the wires and targeting the grower with money to burn could be viable strategy for an established company. Less fans and lower amps = better efficiency, but it seems like a hard sell getting people to see lamps as hot rods or saving a few bucks a month down the road for their small grows. Cheap and effective is what most people are going to want. Finding the balance between cost efficiency and longevity is the trick and fans seem helpful in that regard. People want quality... as long as it doesn't cost "too much".

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I like the way you think, Rahz, and your blatant confidence of becoming an owner of a COB-fixture business strikes me with envy.

Just one thing that I haven't had the chance to discuss before, which is the trade off between cheaper power bills or better COB efficiency. It's been documented by our fellow grower and teacher, @SupraSPL, that fans make a remarkable difference in how heat sinks are cooled and ultimately how cooler junction temperatures can drop by just adding a wee bit of breeze. I suppose one could have a large enough heat sink but some people are going to want compact and effective fixtures, ya know? The market's lighting business is growing, and in favor of LED.

Also, most fans that I've tinkered with run anywhere between 100ma~200ma - not a huge ball breaker.