Well ,we did a big buy American campaign in 90's but everybody happily bought their 8$ sweaters at Walmart ( the ones that are junk after 3 washes) situation reminded me of cattle on the conveyor belt at a slaughter house.ccguns
What has Trump done to this country?
- Thread starter Jimdamick
- Start date
If you look at the history about what occurs when a established power and a rising power collide it's not a good result w/war occuring more than half the time.Sure hope this is not case as I'm a smart enough American to know that war between nation states of equal capabilities more or less won't resemble previous wars. In other words US pop. will not be untouched. Cyber, nationwide power outages guaranteed. Power out 1 week everybody turns into a caveman.ccguns
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
They also have to keep a very large middle class happy. I don't see them doing that through picking a fight with the rest of the world. I put my faith in them, not the government of China.
I haven't heard a few of the things you posted, so no offense but I am not willing to just jump onto them as being reality or even if the fact of they happening that they are all bad things. But I know enough about the China government to know they have a lot of work to do to fix the suppression of their people to not know that they are a nation that is potentially very unstable with respect to world peace.
That is why I am happy that those 400 million people are there.
That they sit on and collect the scheduled payments over the next 30 years? People pretend like they can do anything nefarious with it should realize that they don't come anywhere near the amount that is already owned by Americans.
And we didn't have to pollute our environment with all those shit producing factories that the American companies opened up over there when we finally realized that rivers on fire and three headed fish wasn't worth it.
Now we are in a position to do things like 3d print and start to do so much more local with modern technology.
I am very optimistic about the upcoming decades. Once we are on the other side of the propaganda war that has been conducted on us. It is impossible to come together when people get totally different sets of information that is used to create false narratives designed to get people to fight with one another.
I don't see their middle class being ok with totally being devastated by a war.
You raise valid points ,never had quarrel w/any oriental people in general. I'm talking Mr Xi and his party here. He's pumping serious Nationalism and China's destiny etc. And I'd like to be as confident as you are about Cnina's people rising up but I"m not seeing it He beats his people down w/iron fistI have'nt seen them rise up over Internet being state controlled or journalist being jailed.Last time they rose up they were run over by tanks. That being said I genuinely hope your outcome happens.ccguns
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
I’m not pretending anything.
I don’t know if anything nefarious can come from them owning US debt but I do know they aren’t buying it to help the west.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I met a lot of Chinese/Indian/etc students in 2009-2015 when I went back to school to get some degrees.
I am not necessarily saying that they will 'rise up'. But they want to be comfortable and that means they need to keep investing in their nation, which decreases the amount of money they have to build up other people's lands without the public pointing to their own conditions. And when they don't get it, that is when the money starts talking.
I didn't mean you or anyone in particular were pretending about China being able to do something with the money they invested in our nation. Sorry if it came out that way.
This is one of those things that reminds me of the attacks during Obama's presidency that was used to distract from the Republican nonsense because nobody wants to white knight for China in a argument, so you just nod your head when people bring it up and take a drink of beer.
Absolutely I agree with you on this. That is why it is a dual benefit. They are buying it because we pay interest on their savings that they used to buy the treasuries. Our dollar is very stable (which is why it is so important that the Federal Reserve was not one of the entities that bent the knee to Trump) and they know that it will be paid back in full on a very well laid out schedule.
We just need to get a lot better at investing in ourselves again.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Here’s something to read while you’re drinking your beer.
U.S. Debt to China: How Much Is It, and Why?
China has long been one of the major foreign holders of U.S. national debt. Learn how much of the debt China holds and why it chooses to invest in U.S. Treasurys.
While China owning a large portion of foreign debt isn’t the end of the world, it ain’t a nothin burger either. I think it’s something that should be included on a list of grievances or concerns about the Chinese government’s growing influence and actions stated by the OP.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I am not saying that there is not a lot of money. Just trying to make sure that people understand what it actually is relative to what Americans have invested in their own nation.Here’s something to read while you’re drinking your beer.
U.S. Debt to China: How Much Is It, and Why?
China has long been one of the major foreign holders of U.S. national debt. Learn how much of the debt China holds and why it chooses to invest in U.S. Treasurys.www.thebalance.com
While China owning a large portion of foreign debt isn’t the end of the world, it ain’t a nothin burger either. I think it’s something that should be included on a list of grievances or concerns about the Chinese government’s growing influence and actions stated by the OP.
I am saying that there is enough Americans that own the vast majority of our national debt, which has greatly benefitted both countries, even though I think we squandered a lot of our investing due to nothing that doesn't benefit the wealthiest of our nation being able to get through congress due to Republican obstruction.
Jimdamick
Well-Known Member
Sativied
Well-Known Member
China has always been playing the long game. In a few decades next to India they will be the most powerful nation on the planet and it’s naive to think they will play nice and be pacifist instead of trying to force a new world order. Their infrastructure will be the center of the world and Taiwan is definitely fucked.
It’s a tool to control the value of their own currency in relation to the dollar (to keep export profotable yet importing of commodities affordable). It will actually be beneficial for the US if China dumps US holdings too fast, that’s why they do it graduallly.
To answer the thread’s title... well one of the things he did is increase animosity towards Russia while the real danger to western democracy is China.
I used to mess with Trumpers by pointing out Trump is a socialist who loans from the communists to pay farmers, but in practice it pretty much is a nothing burger. The thing is, everytime China dumps part of the debt, other countries are eager to buy it.
It’s a tool to control the value of their own currency in relation to the dollar (to keep export profotable yet importing of commodities affordable). It will actually be beneficial for the US if China dumps US holdings too fast, that’s why they do it graduallly.
To answer the thread’s title... well one of the things he did is increase animosity towards Russia while the real danger to western democracy is China.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
I think you guys will be ok. Japan owns more.Yea, right?
They actually do own us
Pretty funny, me thinks
I believe that we(USA) missed agolden opportunity after the wall came down, We bragged about winning the cold war and have never really given Russia the respect that it seeks, that country paid beaucoup during WW2 incredible human and material sacrafice, never totally acknowledged by the west. IF we just could have been a little more humble we'd undoubtably have a better relationship w/them. Ask yourself what DDay would have been like if Hitler had all the armor that got chewed up in the East at his disposal on 6/4/44.ccguns
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
As long as we are making predictions, I'll make one of my own.
In a few decades, China will be coming out of the slump created by its one child policy and civil unrest due to its repressive oligarchy. India will be stifled by the rise of fascism under Modi and will experience hardship due to civil unrest. Maybe they will have adjusted by then but I'm not so sure of that.
The US is not exceptional or pure and has a hand in the corruption seen in both India and China, not proclaiming "murrica is back" or anything like that. It's just that corrupt government and endemic corruption throughout the systems of those two nations puts a drag on their economic and political well being. China will be a military threat for the next decade. They will expand their regional influence for a while but by the 2030's, their internal problems will force them to once again change their hundred year plan.
Jimdamick
Well-Known Member
Stalin/Russia aligned with Hitler as an ally in 1938, but got fucked over
Just saying/pointing that out
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
D-Day wouldn't have happened on 6/4/44 if that were the case.
Rottedroots
Well-Known Member
China is not a communist country so much as it a dictatorial authoritarian regime. By definition alone the Chinese are proving themselves to be capitalists and not communist. The rapid rise of the middle class, the upper class, the millionaires and billionaires don't seem to support any adherence to communism by the people or the state. If there is one thing China has adopted from the west it's consumerism. It's a frenzied grab for anything that new money can buy regardless of the source or impact. Don't they get National Geographic Magazine? The African colonialists of the past have been replaced by the Chinese colonialists of the present and the future. I think your right that the "pressures" put on China in the last four years pales in comparison to what they were able to accomplish while we as the rest of the world was focused on Trump. African nations that were of no interest to any country have been snatched up and indentured and whatever resources the Chinese can glean from those countries will be of a huge benefit to them. They are doing such a good job at destroying their own environment they're taking it on the road and successfully at that. I thought that was our MO but they are even better at it than us. I've no problem with them buying up our forest lands or NY sky scrapers because when push come to shove they can't take land home. If it's racist I apologize but I also have no problem with them vetting Chinese University students. Recent history has shown that a very very small minority are active members of the Chinese military bent on gathering technology and we couldn't make it any easier. I have no idea of how to rein in the Chinese so if they want to build up the Spratly islands all we can or will do is puff up and bluster. So I have to admit I was wrong and that Trump's superficial trade war and tirade against the theft of technology amounts to nothing, much less a success.