We're breeding out the ambering of trich's in many new strains ?

If the break down of THC is what creating the amber color, and if this break down is a result of enzymatic/metabolic activity,
It's entirely possible that through selective breeding we end with strains that express lower level of these enzymes.

However, I don't know Cannabis metabolic pathways well enough to know if this is the case.

Jaybodankly said:

@SouthCross "Because lots of us gave up heat problems and expensive high wattage bulbs for the modern. LED".

I understand why people switched. My point is having changed two major environmental factors in the grow space heat and light spectrum. that needs to be looked at if you are not getting similar results as before.

Click to expand...

Yes Sir. I agree. There's a lot of variables in this. I'm was being narrow sighted not to giving it more weight. I have sprouts that popped the soil last night. The same GSC as before. This light schedule will be 15 hour days. Hard switch to flower at 11.45 hours. No diminished. The hours were chosen by the longest and shortest day it'd see, if it was outside.

I'm also curious to see what going from 10 hours on to 11.45 in the 9th week of flower will do. Is it possible to run the plant out farther for THC production? Then the ability to stop it by increasing the light hours? Getting amber...

I have a theory based on my results.

I run many seeds that are bred to be 8-9 week max flowering time.

I used to use a bloom ratio in flower like all the guides said and I would switch to plain water the last couple of weeks. And my flowers were ready with cloudy trichomes and a few degrading amber right around 8 weeks. But with fading leaves. I had never seen any colored early trichomes then.

Last couple of years I started growing to keep my plants green all the way through. I also started comparing Grow and bloom ratios on flowering plants in ocean forest. I ended up using only a 1 part Grow formula. Pure Blend Pro Grow worked best with my well water so far.

This has added up to 3-4 weeks to ripening times and has doubled and tripled my original yield average with the same seeds and pots and everything. And

I also started to see early colored trichomes around week 9-10. While pistils were still 50% white and vibrant. And on plants that showed them they would be all over and really obvious under the microscope the longer I let the plant grow.

The 12 weekers that had the colors looked like the plant I posted earlier in the thread.

Eventually the clears on those plants still turned cloudy and the colors seem to fill up too. Like if you have seen purple stalks and heads on some of these purple hybrids.

But it seems to take forever and I guess that is the sativa expressing out in the hybrid.

This is really common for me on diesel and lemon Thai hybrids. And old school Jack Herrer and the like.

When I research the original strains in my hybrids I tend to find the long flowering old school sativas are in the parentage somewhere.

So maybe it is the short flowering time bred in that has taken away the complex old school highs and the colored trich's from our modern strains.

Cause I grow simple with no additives and always have used 12/12 for flower and only have had other than hps the last 5 months.

if one person grows a strain that ambers in 9 weeks and another grows it and it doesnt amber in 9 weeks....where to start?

chemphlegm said:

if one person grows a strain that ambers in 9 weeks and another grows it and it doesnt amber in 9 weeks....where to start?

Click to expand...

First find 98 more people who grow and see if there are trends.
Then categorize them based on medium, veg, light cycle, light technology, feeding, and do a regression analysis easy peasy

chemphlegm said:

if one person grows a strain that ambers in 9 weeks and another grows it and it doesnt amber in 9 weeks....where to start?

Click to expand...

Well for this kind of amber we need to start with genetics. It sounds like you are talking about amber after the trichs are already turned cloudy.

The amber ( and purple, pink and violet) trichomes I am referring too appear way before the plant is ripe.

I also notice the more afghani the hybrid leans is like the more it is just clear to cloudy to amber trichs like the guides say.

For instance I could have 2 Blue Lemon Thai plants. The more Thai/Diesel it leans the more chance for colored transparent trichomes.

The short pole plant pheno never shows colors. Just cloudy when peaked.

I wonder if all resources were made available right to the end would this prolong the end?
Theres much thought on what c02 can/cannot do for an indoor garden also. some say faster some say slower
all say fuller. Many growers in this forum report really long flowering times way often.
I know for sure that inadequate resources during vegs and flowering results in a longer finish. I know sativas take longer to finish.

I hope the thread gets to the bottom of this, interesting shit

MichiganMedGrower said:

Well for this kind of amber we need to start with genetics. It sounds like you are talking about amber after the trichs are already turned cloudy.

The amber ( and purple, pink and violet) trichomes I am referring too appear way before the plant is ripe.

I also notice the more afghani the hybrid leans is like the more it is just clear to cloudy to amber trichs like the guides say.

For instance I could have 2 Blue Lemon Thai plants. The more Thai/Diesel it leans the more chance for colored transparent trichomes.

The short pole plant pheno never shows colors. Just cloudy when peaked.

Click to expand...

understood.

I know every strain I grow shows clear trichs, then cloudy, milky then amber. amber always comes
after the harvest date on my tags. I've never grown a marijuana plant that did it any other way, making this all new to me.
thanks for sharing your experiences

MichiganMedGrower said:

I have a theory based on my results.

I run many seeds that are bred to be 8-9 week max flowering time.

I used to use a bloom ratio in flower like all the guides said and I would switch to plain water the last couple of weeks. And my flowers were ready with cloudy trichomes and a few degrading amber right around 8 weeks. But with fading leaves. I had never seen any colored early trichomes then.

Last couple of years I started growing to keep my plants green all the way through. I also started comparing Grow and bloom ratios on flowering plants in ocean forest. I ended up using only a 1 part Grow formula. Pure Blend Pro Grow worked best with my well water so far.

This has added up to 3-4 weeks to ripening times and has doubled and tripled my original yield average with the same seeds and pots and everything. And

I also started to see early colored trichomes around week 9-10. While pistils were still 50% white and vibrant. And on plants that showed them they would be all over and really obvious under the microscope the longer I let the plant grow.

The 12 weekers that had the colors looked like the plant I posted earlier in the thread.

Eventually the clears on those plants still turned cloudy and the colors seem to fill up too. Like if you have seen purple stalks and heads on some of these purple hybrids.

But it seems to take forever and I guess that is the sativa expressing out in the hybrid.

This is really common for me on diesel and lemon Thai hybrids. And old school Jack Herrer and the like.

When I research the original strains in my hybrids I tend to find the long flowering old school sativas are in the parentage somewhere.

So maybe it is the short flowering time bred in that has taken away the complex old school highs and the colored trich's from our modern strains.

Cause I grow simple with no additives and always have used 12/12 for flower and only have had other than hps the last 5 months.

Click to expand...

How many brands of nutes have you tried? I've not found much difference between them.
I've tried Jacks, Mills, DynaGro, Plant Marvel, etc. and they all seem to work equally well.

and the most important question....which nutes have you ended with @ Chunky Stool

chemphlegm said:

I wonder if all resources were made available right to the end would this prolong the end?
Theres much thought on what c02 can/cannot do for an indoor garden also. some say faster some say slower
all say fuller. Many growers in this forum report really long flowering times way often.
I know for sure that inadequate resources during vegs and flowering results in a longer finish. I know sativas take longer to finish.

I hope the thread gets to the bottom of this, interesting shit

Click to expand...

I see what you mean about the ripening plants stalling without adequate resources.

I think it is the available nitrogen in balance with the PK that allows the plant to grow longer. It isn't stalled or delayed. It's growing like a mother fucker for more weeks.

The sativa leaners mostly. And the results are much more like my outdoor growing friends old dads greenhouse diesel. And his plants are usually a great example of outdoor grown weed. Huge expansive highs and flavors.

This thread is result of stoned scientists tackling a problem(kudos)way too deeply.. Fox tails are either from a light leak(first variable) and too much pk or wrong timing on the PK.. Typically heat can play a part, as the plant is elongating to help keep itself cool.. I mean, I'm no expert, but I damn sure never blame the genetic first.. that said, I am sure there are a few sativas that make long spindly buds. But seriously, the environment is crucial and I would start my investigation there..
Sorry If someone else said the same. I didn't read the headache of a thread fully

I've limited exp with sativas indoors, and in my greenhouse they flipped out. so I avoid growing them. a buddy keeps only sativas so....the herb is there if I want. outdoor weed effects are different I agree. It is more reminiscent of yesteryear too, but not sure why.
My last outdoor was smelled 350 feet away at the end of the driveway across the dirt road while checking the mail. wife ended that shit for me quick. because shes smart and all.... Four plants that time.. but I never had more than one finishing in the outdoor space before and four killed it.

Chunky Stool said:

How many brands of nutes have you tried? I've not found much difference between them.
I've tried Jacks, Mills, DynaGro, Plant Marvel, etc. and they all seem to work equally well.

Click to expand...

I tried 4 different systems and 1 water only soil mix. And I agree that dialed in to our water and medium there is not much difference. I am pretty sure I could make any plant food work.

But some need leaching more often in my garden than others and I can feed a moderate dose of pbpg every time I water after the soil is depleted and as long as I don't overfeed I am golden to the end usually.

I want everything to work effortlessly in balance. Water nutes and medium. No ph adjusting and no multiple bottles is preferred.

My next experiment is to amend pro mix with an organic pellet slow release nute and water only other than topping up like @chemphlegm

I am a bit shy to lose control though. I like feeding exactly what they need every time but it is really time consuming with all the plants at different stages.

chemphlegm said:

I've limited exp with sativas indoors, and in my greenhouse they flipped out. so I avoid growing them. a buddy keeps only sativas so....the herb is there if I want. outdoor weed effects are different I agree. It is more reminiscent of yesteryear too, but not sure why.
My last outdoor was smelled 350 feet away at the end of the driveway across the dirt road while checking the mail. wife ended that shit for me quick. because shes smart and all.... Four plants that time.. but I never had more than one finishing in the outdoor space before and four killed it.

Click to expand...

I don't grow any Pure sativa either. They are suppose seed to be 8-10 week hybrids all of them.

SwitchHitter said:

This thread is result of stoned scientists tackling a problem(kudos)way too deeply.. Fox tails are either from a light leak(first variable) and too much pk or wrong timing on the PK.. Typically heat can play a part, as the plant is elongating to help keep itself cool.. I mean, I'm no expert, but I damn sure never blame the genetic first.. that said, I am sure there are a few sativas that make long spindly buds. But seriously, the environment is crucial and I would start my investigation there..
Sorry If someone else said the same. I didn't read the headache of a thread fully

Click to expand...

We weren't talking about long spindly foxtails. We were talking genetic ones. There are a couple pics earlier in the thread with examples. They are not a problem. Sour diesel looks like this.

There are also pics of trichomes with multi colors posted. Which is what this "amber " thread is actually about.

MichiganMedGrower said:

We weren't talking about long spindly foxtails. We were talking genetic ones. There are a couple pics earlier in the thread with examples. They are not a problem. Sour diesel looks like this.

There are also pics of trichomes with multi colors posted. Which is what this "amber " thread is actually about.

Click to expand...

Amber trics. I wonder HOW a breeder could manipulate those.. Pretty damn 100% sure that is a false dream.. clear, milky, amber. If that process is not in that order---then someone is funking up the feed schedule and making the plant ripen too quickly or not at all. I swear this thread is blowing my mind open!..to possibilities.. but I am not as optimistic as the rest of these pros.. and why would someone assume the bud is foxtailing if thats just how the genetic works.. those photos really didn't explain much.. I am trying to understand though

SwitchHitter said:

Amber trics. I wonder HOW a breeder could manipulate those.. Pretty damn 100% sure that is a false dream.. clear, milky, amber. If that process is not in that order---then someone is funking up the feed schedule and making the plant ripen too quickly or not at all. I swear this thread is blowing my mind open!..to possibilities.. but I am not as optimistic as the rest of these pros.. and why would someone assume the bud is foxtailing if thats just how the genetic works.. those photos really didn't explain much.. I am trying to understand though

Click to expand...

The breeder didn't manipulate them. He managed to preserve them. The transparent amber and purple trichomes are from the land race sativa genetics. And he wasn't looking for them. They came with the sativa effects and flavors he was looking for.

Most modern strains have had them bred out.

What you are calling amber is not the same as the amber/ browning after a trich has turned cloudy. That is actually the thc oxidizing and breaking down.

The plant I showed is still ripening. The clears have not all gone cloudy yet. The colored trichomes just become more colored.

The foxtails are just the way those plants grow. the foxtails from heat stress are very different. The little ones like on a sour diesel are all calyx.

Some growers wanted to know the difference.

SwitchHitter said:

Amber trics. I wonder HOW a breeder could manipulate those.. Pretty damn 100% sure that is a false dream.. clear, milky, amber. If that process is not in that order---then someone is funking up the feed schedule and making the plant ripen too quickly or not at all. I swear this thread is blowing my mind open!..to possibilities.. but I am not as optimistic as the rest of these pros.. and why would someone assume the bud is foxtailing if thats just how the genetic works.. those photos really didn't explain much.. I am trying to understand though

Click to expand...

Not really a "false dream". AFAIK @RM3 has been working on his project to preserve the "amber trich" characteristics/traits for quite some time. Its intriguing stuff for sure. Hopefully one day I'll be able to acquire some of his work.
And I'm totally on board with Dr Whos theory because I too have plants that never go amber and I don't have a "feed" schedule. Water only.
There's definitely more to this subject than just bro science. Kinda makes me want to order a new macro lens so I can doc my own findings.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I tried 4 different systems and 1 water only soil mix. And I agree that dialed in to our water and medium there is not much difference. I am pretty sure I could make any plant food work.

But some need leaching more often in my garden than others and I can feed a moderate dose of pbpg every time I water after the soil is depleted and as long as I don't overfeed I am golden to the end usually.

I want everything to work effortlessly in balance. Water nutes and medium. No ph adjusting and no multiple bottles is preferred.

My next experiment is to amend pro mix with an organic pellet slow release nute and water only other than topping up like @chemphlegm

I am a bit shy to lose control though. I like feeding exactly what they need every time but it is really time consuming with all the plants at different stages.

Click to expand...

I was gifted the Roots Organic Uprising trio. (dry nutes)
I still haven't used them up bc I build my soil but I did try them out for a couple grows.
They're a great way to get your feet wet with "water only" without needing to build up a ROLS first.

The only additions I added to the trio were some mycos, bennies (I like Real Growers Recharge) and some Roots Organics Elemental. The Elemental is a decent addition of Calcitic Lime, Dolomitic Lime, Gypsum and Fish Protein Hydrolysate. Its really fine, like Oyster shell flour. It doesnt mix well unless you let it sit for a while and vigorously shake/stir it or bubble it.

IME, these are really a great way to enter the fundamental world of water only organics....especially if you grow perpetual.
I know there are cheaper products available and I probably wouldn't have purchased these but having tried them, I would rec them because they do work well and the results were consistent.


I believe the Aurora Innovations/Roots Organics still have the free sample form on their site. I "think" you can choose up to 3 products and you pay 7-8 bucks shipping.


Just some food for thought....