We're all fuct now
- Thread starter Al B. Fuct
- Start date
10mm fan boy
Well-Known Member
Al,
Thanks for all the great info you have provided over the years. You are doing a great service to the community.
I have been fighting my first SOG grow for the past 5 months and hope you can point me in the right direction.
I set up my operation as close to yours as I could and even got your clones in RW method down, so I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but my problem is this:
I get good roots @ 2 weeks but when I put them into flowering, they don't grow another inch. They start growing white hairs right away but no verticle growth the entire 2 months. If I put 8" clones on my SOG tray, they will finish 8" w/ a few grams of bud on them.
I just got another flood tray so I can try to give them veg time to get em going. It looks like they don't do anything for 3+ weeks and then they take off and end up looking very healthy.
I know I shouldn't have to give them any veg time, so I must be doing something wrong.
AN - 1100 ppm
Ph - 5.5-5.8
RH - 50%
temp - 75-82
exhaust fan always going to bring in fresh co2
400w hps
Thanks for all the great info you have provided over the years. You are doing a great service to the community.
I have been fighting my first SOG grow for the past 5 months and hope you can point me in the right direction.
I set up my operation as close to yours as I could and even got your clones in RW method down, so I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but my problem is this:
I get good roots @ 2 weeks but when I put them into flowering, they don't grow another inch. They start growing white hairs right away but no verticle growth the entire 2 months. If I put 8" clones on my SOG tray, they will finish 8" w/ a few grams of bud on them.
I just got another flood tray so I can try to give them veg time to get em going. It looks like they don't do anything for 3+ weeks and then they take off and end up looking very healthy.
I know I shouldn't have to give them any veg time, so I must be doing something wrong.
AN - 1100 ppm
Ph - 5.5-5.8
RH - 50%
temp - 75-82
exhaust fan always going to bring in fresh co2
400w hps
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
cool.
Yanno, I'd have rather thought it would be the other way around. I'm almost without doubt one of the most conservative dope growers you'll ever find. I push very few limits as it were, rather opting for what I know will work for me and anyone else. Nothing I do is experimental or unproven.
In the exhaust line? Cooling the air you're going to dump outside? To mask heat signature, perhaps? Am I confused?
Nice sheetmetal work, wish I could do stuff like that.
'sup Rosey?
Does that mean you gave up on flowering with CFLs?
Hope you're pounding out the poundage, dood.
*blush*
thanks Will do what I can.
Hmm.
You told me about everything but your watering. Slow growth is often caused by overwatering.
What do the roots look like on the plants you're pulling out? If they're browned or poorly developed, watering might be excessive for the medium you're using.
Are you regularly applying H2O2 in your tanks? It can help a op which is marginally overwatered as the H2O2 will break down to provide O2 to the roots. It won't help a massively overwatered grow, tho.
What sort of media are you using and how are you watering it (drip, flood, etc)? How often?
iloveit
Well-Known Member
hey its cheech & chong coool!thought youse guys would get a kick out of this.
two funny old stoners popped in town recently.
they were kind enough to 'graf a mexican bud vase for me.
this one's gone straight to the pool room.
it'll show up someday on the collectors or antiques roadshow, where they'll all joke about how quaint it was long ago, back when pot was a crime. :d
10mm fan boy
Well-Known Member
I grow in 6" pots with hydroton. I flood my table 5 times a day while the lights are on. Just long enough to fill up my flood trays.
Yes I use H202 in my soup and add new every 3-4 days.
The roots growing from new clones are white and healthy, but roots on the plants I pull from flowering are brownish and underdeveloped.
My mother plants (which came from the same batch of clones) had the same lag time when they first started off in veg.
Now they are big and healthy.
FWIW, I started off using rockwoll (watering once a day) and had the same problem.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Are you starting your clones in RW cubes?
Is the flood level BELOW the bottom of the cube as it is nested in pellets? If the flood level touches the cube and you're flooding 5x/day, that'll definitely cause root development problems.
Good, good, good.
Yep, there's a root rot problem.
If your mums are started in RW cubes then nested in pellets and the flood line is touching the cube, same problem as described above could be happening.
Now, once they DO catch on and develop a bunch of rootmass and as such are able to suck up a more significant portion of the water in the medium, they can tolerate more watering.
Yep, even watering only 1x/day when in pots entirely filled with RW floc can be too much for small plants.
The surest way to determine the right amount to water is by the weight of the pot. You should not water again until the pot has lost at least half of its water weight. While learning, you can judge this by actually weighing the pots, but you'll eventually get used to the 'feel' of the heft of the pots when they have just been watered and checking again, a day or so down the track.
Roots in pellets can tolerate quite frequent watering since pellets absorb almost no water. As long as the flood level does not touch the RW cube, 5x/day is fine- for advanced plants, anyway. Plants which have just been introduced to pellets should be flooded only 2-3x/day. Once you see roots out of the pots' drain holes, you can bump up the watering frequency.
GypsyBush
Well-Known Member
There is a saying that applies here...cool.
Yanno, I'd have rather thought it would be the other way around. I'm almost without doubt one of the most conservative dope growers you'll ever find. I push very few limits as it were, rather opting for what I know will work for me and anyone else. Nothing I do is experimental or unproven.
" If I can see farther than other men, it is because I stand on the shoulders of Giants..." I dunno who wrote that...
And YOU are our Giant Al...
All we Fuctheads can build on your experience, and I can only imagine what some of us will be doing 7 years from now...
You have laid the solid foundation many of us will rely upon for furthe exploration and development of new techniques...
And while I know full well you did not invent it, it was YOU who brought it to us...
So credit be given to the guy that carried the water...
even if he didn't invent it...lol...Attachments
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Here's a visual in case my description isn't good enough.
The flood level must not reach the RW cube!
The flood level must not reach the RW cube!
SOG
Well-Known Member
ty Al,In the exhaust line? Cooling the air you're going to dump outside? To mask heat signature, perhaps? Am I confused?
since you asked,
I've build my grow room in my attic
i was originally gonna run my two tents in the open attic space i made
with the coming summer, and the high heat buildup in my attic
it was impossible to run my tents under 120f+
i ended up building a whole sealed room in the center of the attic (no walls are external or close to external walls) placing my tents inside
I'm pulling fresh air with a 12" incoming duct directly from outside
i was gonna use the cold air exhausted from my radiator to vent into the attic
this will potentially cool my whole attic down, reduce my AC usage during summer
then in the winter i can use it for heating the attic, again reducing heat coasts in winter time
i don't want to exhaust outside as this will create a heat sig, as you suspected
not to concerned about the lighting sig, i completely eliminated the F.L.I.R/IR capabilities to pick up my rooms heat sig
since i build my room in the center of the already hot attic, I'm camouflaged behind the attic's natural heat buildup signiture
(all walls including ceiling) have first layer of insulation then IR diffusing layer, then the whole room is Sheetrocked then sealed
on top of that my IR SJ tents are inside that room
lol, I'm writing this and I'm sounding like a freak to myself
but this is just the turn of events
now I'm thinking to use some of the cold air produced can be used to cool my general room area,
i could then use the air directly from the room to cool the tubes,
i need to figure a way around my 2 x 12" inline bigblue's
its all in the diagram i posted and in my grow room journal (links are in my signature)
might have to go with filters instead, then all the exhausted air can be circulated back to the main area room
SOG
Well-Known Member
right on brother G, you are very good with words i noticedSo credit be given to the guy that carried the water...
ohh and by the way...
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Isaac Newton said dat.
*blush* Thanks. If all goes well, you'll be growing as much weed as you like and never stressing about problems...All we Fuctheads can build on your experience, and I can only imagine what some of us will be doing 7 years from now...
...because you will understand the basics well enough that you'll be able to troubleshoot any problem you encounter.
Thanks so much for that.And while I know full well you did not invent it, it was YOU who brought it to us...
So credit be given to the guy that carried the water...
Al B,
in your other faq thread you say
"The res just needs to stay under 27C as dissolved oxygen is lost readily at and above that temp; considering you need to hold your grow room to 25C, shouldn't be a problem."
But in other threads I have read that the res must stay below 20C, 68f i think it is, to prevent root and general pathogen buildup. People seem to be adding frozen bottles of water to their res to get the temp down. I'm really interested to know if 27C is OK as mine is about 23C and I've been worried about getting root rot. Or does the 20C only apply to DWC, not to dripper or flood/drain and things like that?
Also, how often should I water my week old plants using a waterfarm dripper, the plants are in rockwool cubes and hydroton. I currently have it set too 15 mins on 45 mins off and run it just once for 15mins during lights off, but i am worried that i am watering too much and the rockwool is going to stay too wet and cause problems.
Thanks so much if you can help!
in your other faq thread you say
"The res just needs to stay under 27C as dissolved oxygen is lost readily at and above that temp; considering you need to hold your grow room to 25C, shouldn't be a problem."
But in other threads I have read that the res must stay below 20C, 68f i think it is, to prevent root and general pathogen buildup. People seem to be adding frozen bottles of water to their res to get the temp down. I'm really interested to know if 27C is OK as mine is about 23C and I've been worried about getting root rot. Or does the 20C only apply to DWC, not to dripper or flood/drain and things like that?
Also, how often should I water my week old plants using a waterfarm dripper, the plants are in rockwool cubes and hydroton. I currently have it set too 15 mins on 45 mins off and run it just once for 15mins during lights off, but i am worried that i am watering too much and the rockwool is going to stay too wet and cause problems.
Thanks so much if you can help!
10mm fan boy
Well-Known Member
Yes, all my clones start off in RW cubes.
I started off putting the bottom of my RW cubes 1/2 -3/4" above the flood line. Most of my cubes were dry to the touch and the plants were so bad they only grew about a gram.
Then I started putting the bottoms 1/4 - 1/2" above the flood line and the plants seemed to do better. Is this too close?
So the root rot is deffenatly from over watering?
When I grew in RW it was 4" cubes that only got flooded about an inch. FWIW they did give much better yields but still only about 5g per cola.
I have my mothers setup on a tray just like my flowering tray, but I only flood them 3 times a day.
I started off putting the bottom of my RW cubes 1/2 -3/4" above the flood line. Most of my cubes were dry to the touch and the plants were so bad they only grew about a gram.
Then I started putting the bottoms 1/4 - 1/2" above the flood line and the plants seemed to do better. Is this too close?
So the root rot is deffenatly from over watering?
When I grew in RW it was 4" cubes that only got flooded about an inch. FWIW they did give much better yields but still only about 5g per cola.
I have my mothers setup on a tray just like my flowering tray, but I only flood them 3 times a day.
LoudBlunts
Well-Known Member
AL B. GHOST????
or would that be casper?
errrr
or would that be casper?
errrr
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
BTW, is it just me or are other folx getting this error?
The site is waaaaay slow to respond, when it responds at all instead of timing out.
Downright annoying, especially when I just need to edit a typo or something requiring a keystroke or two...
It's taking about 5 mins to load a page off RIU. I don't think it's network connectivity as I can ping RIU with reasonable latency times.
RIU is timing out for me, usually in the late afternoon USA time, when you yank jokers are getting off work and logging on.
The site is waaaaay slow to respond, when it responds at all instead of timing out.
Downright annoying, especially when I just need to edit a typo or something requiring a keystroke or two...
It's taking about 5 mins to load a page off RIU. I don't think it's network connectivity as I can ping RIU with reasonable latency times.
I'm giving up until it's late night in Nth America. See ya later.
orzz
Well-Known Member
I am having the same problems and error messages.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Yep- and they're still funny.
Mind you, Shelby Chong, bless her little cotton socks, is playing 'opening act' for the fellers on the latest tour... and sorry, regardless of how much she adores and cares for Tommy... she's just NOT a comedian. If you go to see 'em, you can afford to be about 30 mins late.
I see.
I think I'd use a big attic vent fan to remove the hot air from the attic air surrounding the op. Very common, nothing at all criminal about those. Yes, there will be 'bright' spot on FLIR at the vent fan dump point, but it sure wouldn't constitute probable cause. Cops in the US can't legally FLIR scan your place without a warrant anyway. As such, they sure couldn't use a FLIR scan to get a warrant, either. I'd use your cooler to remove heat only from the grow room. Put the chiller module outside the attic airmass, perhaps in a garage below or something so the heat transferred out of the attic need not be again moved by the whole-attic exhaust fan. .
Have you ascertained whether you'll actually need to warm the attic ambient air in winter? Solar heat should keep it rather close to acceptable, at least in daytime, depending on the outdoor temps. I think I'd only worry about warming the grow room itself- if it needs it.
I use a dehumidifier 24/7 in winter and during lights-off in warmer times. The heat it emits is usually enough to keep my winter lights-off temps acceptable.
27C is as warm as a nute soln should ever be allowed to get. Cooler than that, down to about 16C, is of course better in terms of retaining dissolved O2. 23C should be fine. If that's as warm as it ever gets, I don't think I'd be going to too many heroics to cool it any further.
Tray-based flood systems don't generally have many problems with nute soln temp as the tanks are shaded, located below the trays. The solution gets cooled a bit when it is pumped into the tray and picked up by the pots of media, too. Drip systems also cool the soln a bit when it is distributed to the pots of pellets. However, one should run airstones in the tanks of either to maximise dissolved O2 in the nute soln.
DWC/bubbler systems or any other sort where light energy is striking the reservoirs, or any other sort which have continuous pumping via a submerged water pump (i.e. NFT) suffer the most from overwarm nutes and might need some tank cooling.
New clones, with a decent spray of root out of the cube bottoms, which have just been introduced to pellets should have the pellets around the cube (not the cube) hand watered for about the first week. This will encourage the roots to seek into the pellets. If you keep wetting the cube, roots won't seek into the pellets. Keep handwatering pellets around the cube until you see roots out of the pot drain holes. When you're sure the roots have knitted down into the pellets, you can be assured that flooding will be sufficient from then on.
I usually quote 1/2" clearance because the floor of most flood trays isn't flat. It's common to see about a 1/2" bow in trays, near the centre drain holes. If the cubes are uniformly 1/2" above the deepest flood level, you can be sure that none of the cubes are getting saturated. However, this does mean that the pots on the perimeter will have their cube bottoms 1" above the flood line. It should only take a few days, a week max, for roots to knit an inch into the pellets, but you may have to handwater for that period to assure that nobody goes dry until that happens.
Almost always, yes. Root rot is caused by deprivation of O2 from the rootzone, which both starves roots of O2 (potentially killing them outright) and also creates conditions favourable to pythium and fusarium. Dead roots can be food for pathogens.
If you're applying H2O2, as you say you are, O2 deprivation should be minimal, even if the watering is a bit excessive. Regular application will also keep pathogens suppressed. If your cubes are definitely above the flood level, you should not be saturating the cubes and drowning the roots within them. Roots in pellets can tolerate quite frequent flooding because the pellets don't absorb much water and there's lots of airgaps between the pellets. If you have all those bases covered but are still getting root rot or poor root development, it's a bit of a mystery. However, one thing you can be sure of is that the poor development of the plants is traceable to the poor root development.
Hmm. Interesting that the poor productivity occurs in a completely different medium. What's the chances of you having a lying pH or TDS meter?
What medium do the mums run in?
10mm fan boy
Well-Known Member
Now that I think about it, I only did one batch in RW cubes before switching to hydroton. I said I only got 5g per cola, but it was my first attempt at SOG also. My only other operation was with DWC.
I have a Hanna Ph/temp and a Hanna Ph/ppm combo. I check with both from time to time to make sure they both give the same Ph. They seem to be good
The mothers are in 6" pots in hydroton.
Also what is your opinion about air stones putting spores, etc into the res? I don't have one yet.
SOG
Well-Known Member
yes for sure bra,
the attic will get down to the 50f/10c during night times, and over 120f/49c during the day
only been observing recently, we're in spring time here in CA
I'd expect much lower temps in the attic, during winter time
ill need to go over my plans and see how ill modify the setup
now that i have the option to cool down/warm the room
with the exhausting hot air, it opens up a whole lot of options
I'm gonna try and keep everything inside the general room area 30ft/10m x 15ft/5m
ill be taping every appliance that exhaust heat, into my main exhaust
gonna make a duct transition from sheet metal
to fit the back or which ever end that's exhausting
so non or minimal hot air is exhausted anywhere in the general room
now originally i was gonna dump this with a 12"/30sm duct outside the attic
like you said, they cant flir my house without a warrant
but its enough that one LEO notices from the air,
he sure can and will give a fellow LEO a tip/lead
I'd rather be on the safe side on this,
and completely remain stealth to the outside world
i think its best to leave the heat in the attic to camouflage my room's sig