Water Cooled Grow Rooms

Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
phillipchristian said:
If you pay your water bill than I wouldn't suggest doing it. The amount of water pressure you'll need at those temps to rmove heat from your room will be a lot more then a trickle. You would essentially need your faucet at full pressure. Because water has such high heat conductivity you need to supply water cooled equipment with substantial flow rates for them to be effective. This is why you see that most water cooled applicationsinvolve a recirculating reservoir.
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High heat conductivity would reduce the need for high flow rates, not increase it. You keep saying things that are completely wrong. I think you are a fraud.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
colalover said:
Hi, This thread has been amazing and the main inspiration for me to switch to water cooled. I have a question for those already water cooling, about a diy water cooled dehumidifier (just using cold water, no compressor or machines apart from your chiller) I am currently switching my setup to be a water cooled sealed unit. I have all the equipment (Sentinel chhc-4 controlling it all), it is a tiny box 3foot x 3foot x 5foot with 1 x 600w light in there. The light has its own air feed and I have the option of venting to a lung room or outside. Since the box is so small I can not fit split units and huge dehumidifiers in there so this is why I am going water cooled. I got really lucky with a second hand chiller and ended up with a monster 1hp chiller. So I want to have this as my air cooler but also as my dehumidifier. I will have 2 x 100 litre res [thats about 26 gal] (possibly upgrade them to 250 litre res each [66 gal]), one will be set 10F above due point and the other will be set 10F below due point. All the feed in and out of the cold water will be insulated as well as the res itself. I have two PC radiators which are 14 x 5 inches each with 3 PC fans on each radiator which should work for cooling the room down as the light will have its own air feed so these radiators are only cooling the radiant heat etc inside the box. My question is, does anyone currently use their water cooled water to dehumidify like I want to, if so I'll have a look at your grow journals to see how you do it. The makers of the ice box also do a dehumidifier but I can not find too much information about it and definitely can not source it anywhere in Europe. My two options are 1) Use another PC radiator, which have lots of fins on them so have a greater surface area for condensation to build up 2) Get copper coil and make some spiral design or something similar, which has less surface area but should allow droplets to start forming and snow ball more condensation as it runs down the pipe due to gravity. Then other questions I have are 1) Is it best to constantly run the below due point water through the tubing/radiator, I read before that dehumidifiers cycle between being on and off to build up condensation and then let it warm up so drops form (not sure how true that is) 2) Should i have a small pc fan pointing at the coil/radiator to encourage droplets to fall or would this just encourage the moisture to return back to the air? There is constant air movement in the box anyway so it wouldn't be stagnant without a fan on it 3) I know it is best to have your heat exchangers up high as heat rises, but what does humidity do? I guess it falls so is it best to have this dehumidifier lower down? As you can see these are all theoretical questions which can only be answered in practice, the only problem is that i can not find anyone else who is doing it this way. So even if you just have an answer to one of the questions above then I appreciate your response, and before it's said I know I'm crazy for doing water cooled in such a small space but its a genuine medical grow in a country who's laws are very outdated. So putting aside the best medicine possible, water cooled / sealed is also the safest heat signature / smell wise. Thanks
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You should install the dehumidifier up high so you can gravity drain the water. Humidity will not "fall". It will distribute itself uniformly throughout the space, so location of the dehumidifier can be anywhere.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
You should install the dehumidifier up high so you can gravity drain the water. Humidity will not "fall". It will distribute itself uniformly throughout the space, so location of the dehumidifier can be anywhere.
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Well, that is funny. Not thinking air circulation, of a sudden. Good use of forum. Reminders.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
High heat conductivity would reduce the need for high flow rates, not increase it. You keep saying things that are completely wrong. I think you are a fraud.
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Not so sure about that last sentence. Not thinking about it correctly to be sure. Water has high heat mass, in that it can hold heat from 0 - 100 C. without a phase change or expansion. (much)

So, flow is reduced if the heat transfer surface is very efficient. That way much heat is transfered to a smaller vol. of water, making that side more efficient. Now, is the heat shedding side efficient enough to handle that?

These physics are all well described in math, except the fine detail of modeling heat transfer to turbulence vs heat gain of the turbulent spire's motion. So, use a supercomputer for that and extrapolate fine frames of time.

Physics can be counter-intuitive. For example, if you don't know why hot water will freeze faster than cold water...well go study. :)
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
I've heard that about water many times. Its not true. In high school, we did 30 different tests of that claim and the cold water froze first. Every time. Think about it. If 50 degree water takes X hours to freeze in a given freezer, then 100 degree water will take Y hours to drop to 50 degrees and another X hours to freeze. 30 different students froze water in 30 different freezers, but in every case, the cold water froze first. While hot water will lose heat faster than cold water, it will never catch up. Because as it cools, it becomes the cold water that has a lower heat loss rate.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
I've heard that about water many times. Its not true. In high school, we did 30 different tests of that claim and the cold water froze first. Every time. Think about it. If 50 degree water takes X hours to freeze in a given freezer, then 100 degree water will take Y hours to drop to 50 degrees and another X hours to freeze. 30 different students froze water in 30 different freezers, but in every case, the cold water froze first. While hot water will lose heat faster than cold water, it will never catch up. Because as it cools, it becomes the cold water that has a lower heat loss rate.
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It is an easy experiment. The teacher was going about it wrong, I guess. Take 2 water droppers. 2 cups of water. Cold tap and hot tap. So, room temp and hot.

It is best to have a freeze plate for this, but it will work on a window sill, if very cold out.

Cold surface outside. No containers. Two drops of water, at the same time. Close the window. What happens is the cold drop will skin over and the film of ice will insulate the rest of the drop.

The hot drop will create a tiny plume and not skin over all the way. The convection plume allows the drop to freeze solid from the bottom faster without the insulated skin over. The cold water is still. Thats it.

Mpemba Effect. It is recognized as a scientific reality that except in very special cases Hot water, freeze faster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect

http://www.youtube.com/embed/0EBGO52DBnU

This vid is the full explanation of the science. It is all about viscous density and the temp gradient.
 
chllnvlln28

chllnvlln28

Active Member
Hey everyone, new to the water chiller experience and having some issues.

I have a few questions about how to use my chiller when it comes to chilling my room.

Specs :
600w Area 51 led panel
1/2 hp chiller
8" heat exchanger
55 gallon blue barrel res ( only for the chiller )
800 gph pump

If I just turn everything on from start, the chiller will not take the res past 73 degree. When I need to get down around 60 or less to keep my room chilled. I live in a very hot climate and we have been experiencing record high's here lately 110+ and mostly 90's at night. Should I keep the 55 gallon res full? or half full? I am running 1/2 ID tubing. I just recently insulated it with a foam pipe insulation. Can anyone help me out?
 
meanmuggz

meanmuggz

Member
So I turned a 65 pint dehumidifier into my chiller. It keeps my main rez at 13ºc.I use it to cool my nute rez to 63º and my 4x4x7 grow tent at 75 day 65 night using an 8"ice box. My tent sits inside a100ºf garage. I have to temp issues. Love the water cooling idea works great
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
meanmuggz said:
So I turned a 65 pint dehumidifier into my chiller. It keeps my main rez at 13ºc.I use it to cool my nute rez to 63º and my 4x4x7 grow tent at 75 day 65 night using an 8"ice box. My tent sits inside a100ºf garage. I have to temp issues. Love the water cooling idea works great
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Insulated tent, of course? No? I wrap mine in bubblefoil. It finishes the light proofing, but more important reflects the 100* infrarred heat, the black fabric will soak up.
 
W

Wohjew

Well-Known Member
Hi I've been reading alot on water cooling . I want a 100% sealed room with no vent holes period . Using two 2000w flower . Gonna build the room to suit . Planning to run 1 8inch ice box per light using hoods . Ice box on each end . Using one fan to push air threw cooling the lights . Should I also add a 3 rd box on the wall for spot cooling ? No ac at all either just iceboxes. Gonna try the Eco 1 1/2 chiller unit as I am on a budget to run my boxes. What does everyone think of my setup idea ?also I will be using a flowtec 1/4 hp . Pumping from Res to chiller to lights back to res
 
H

H20Cool

New Member
Phil at last I heard had some personal family issues and has been away for a while.. Obviously not something to post in public, not sure if ScoobyDoobyDoo is him in disguise or his partner but I recognize the country of residence in the signature...

He most definitely is not a fraud and purchased all his initial systems from me in the beginning of us starting / really advancing the the water-cooled industry. It's good to see he learned a lot from his experience and I see a lot of info from our site and hydro innovations site as well.

I came across this thread and noticed his name and how he made a nice little name for himself as an experienced water-cooled indoor gardener. Grasshopper learned well from the teacher ;)

Not here to shill or promote my site/business but as stated, we are pretty much the global experts in all things water-cooling having started the industry along with my partner the owner of hydro innovations, the guys at chillKing, best coast growers, etc.. And helped invent a good portion of the products. We have designed and sold more water cooled systems than anyone in the world and have seen and done it all. If you have any questions I'll try to find time to get on here and reply in between 14- hour workdays as summer is the crunch time, you can PM me privately as well for any personal conversations offline.

I will say this is a great thread and Phil couldn't have done a better job with his information and answers to questions. Even more things have changed this year with the introduction of more affordable chillers from Hydro innovations - the "Banks Chiller" lineup with prices under $5k for a 5ton chiller and around $4k for 3.5 ton and the original ChillKing 2ton window unit model was discontinued by CK and is now built by HI by same people just under HI's roof.

Quality is better, build times faster, warranty is better, prices lower. Can't beat that an we haven't sold a single ChillKing this year exclusively Banks and they have flown off the virtual shelf this summer as we all have been slammed.

These days almost all the systems we design, and we design some big ones and small ones, are exclusively chillers and air handlers for all the reasons Phil mentioned. I can't recall the last time I sold an icebox, unless for smaller garden with under 3-4 lights. The air handlers came down in price and give you better bang for the buck and its such an easy setup. Heck we sell a complete package that will cool 10k watt lights with chiller, air handler, pump, res, tubing and free shipping for less the cost of just a 5ton ChillKing chiller alone. That was unheard of a few years ago when Phil bought his gear and he bought a lot!

Again- I'm not here to promote our site or products, if you want to contact me about something I will be glad to talk privately but shilling for sales is not why I'm here.. Simply to help educate or clarify things or answer questions best I can to help others thinking or installing water-cooled systems. Maybe I can help keep some people from making mistakes before a purchase from sizing things wrong (the biggest problem and I saw so many incorrect things said on this thread, many that were thought to be correct years ago but no longer apply.).

I would be happy to help answer any questions in Phil's absence, I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem with that having gotten his start with me and learning a lot in the beginning from us as well. He's a great guy and I wish him and his family well- and if you're there or back Phil, drop me a shout. I still want to go fishing!

Ryan - owner
Watercooledgardens.com

H20Cool
 
lvtokerr

lvtokerr

Active Member
H20Cool said:
Phil at last I heard had some personal family issues and has been away for a while.. Obviously not something to post in public, not sure if ScoobyDoobyDoo is him in disguise or his partner but I recognize the country of residence in the signature...

He most definitely is not a fraud and purchased all his initial systems from me in the beginning of us starting / really advancing the the water-cooled industry. It's good to see he learned a lot from his experience and I see a lot of info from our site and hydro innovations site as well.

I came across this thread and noticed his name and how he made a nice little name for himself as an experienced water-cooled indoor gardener. Grasshopper learned well from the teacher ;)

Not here to shill or promote my site/business but as stated, we are pretty much the global experts in all things water-cooling having started the industry along with my partner the owner of hydro innovations, the guys at chillKing, best coast growers, etc.. And helped invent a good portion of the products. We have designed and sold more water cooled systems than anyone in the world and have seen and done it all. If you have any questions I'll try to find time to get on here and reply in between 14- hour workdays as summer is the crunch time, you can PM me privately as well for any personal conversations offline.

I will say this is a great thread and Phil couldn't have done a better job with his information and answers to questions. Even more things have changed this year with the introduction of more affordable chillers from Hydro innovations - the "Banks Chiller" lineup with prices under $5k for a 5ton chiller and around $4k for 3.5 ton and the original ChillKing 2ton window unit model was discontinued by CK and is now built by HI by same people just under HI's roof.

Quality is better, build times faster, warranty is better, prices lower. Can't beat that an we haven't sold a single ChillKing this year exclusively Banks and they have flown off the virtual shelf this summer as we all have been slammed.

These days almost all the systems we design, and we design some big ones and small ones, are exclusively chillers and air handlers for all the reasons Phil mentioned. I can't recall the last time I sold an icebox, unless for smaller garden with under 3-4 lights. The air handlers came down in price and give you better bang for the buck and its such an easy setup. Heck we sell a complete package that will cool 10k watt lights with chiller, air handler, pump, res, tubing and free shipping for less the cost of just a 5ton ChillKing chiller alone. That was unheard of a few years ago when Phil bought his gear and he bought a lot!

Again- I'm not here to promote our site or products, if you want to contact me about something I will be glad to talk privately but shilling for sales is not why I'm here.. Simply to help educate or clarify things or answer questions best I can to help others thinking or installing water-cooled systems. Maybe I can help keep some people from making mistakes before a purchase from sizing things wrong (the biggest problem and I saw so many incorrect things said on this thread, many that were thought to be correct years ago but no longer apply.).

I would be happy to help answer any questions in Phil's absence, I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem with that having gotten his start with me and learning a lot in the beginning from us as well. He's a great guy and I wish him and his family well- and if you're there or back Phil, drop me a shout. I still want to go fishing!

Ryan - owner
Watercooledgardens.com

H20Cool
Click to expand...
i currently have 4k in veg and three times that in flower. I am thinking about a 7.5 ton chiller that way theres room to expand. My lights are bare bulb so I would also need to cool those as well as all the equipment in the room. I want to go water cool so I can have a res out side that stays cold during winter. I think this is the way water cooling would really pay off. Half the year I probably wont have to run the chiller and still be able to run sealed without ac.
 
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