Water Cooled Grow Rooms

zer0ed · Oct 24, 2012

Question.

What are the disadvantages of having an external intake, that runs though the lights, and then exhausts outside the room, to maintain a closed system?
Wouldn't that allow you to have a to do much more, with less?
using the water cooling on everything but the lights?
and maybe for helping cool the room?
wouldn't that be a much more efficient setup?
not having to cool the heat, just getting rid of it all together.

I've read though the first 10 pages.
Just a new guy, asking questions.

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 24, 2012

zer0ed said:
Question.

What are the disadvantages of having an external intake, that runs though the lights, and then exhausts outside the room, to maintain a closed system?
Wouldn't that allow you to have a to do much more, with less?
using the water cooling on everything but the lights?
and maybe for helping cool the room?
wouldn't that be a much more efficient setup?
not having to cool the heat, just getting rid of it all together.

I've read though the first 10 pages.
Just a new guy, asking questions.

if you have an external exhaust of the lights then it's not really a sealed room. also, some people don't have that option; they can't exhaust their lights out of the room. there are a number of reasons why someone may not be able to or want to exhaust that air out of the room; odor, heat, bugs, holes in walls, etc... if you were just going to use a chiller to cool your room and some other equipment then it would be more efficient on the electrical bill but the cost of setting it up would kind of make it not worth it to most people. it would kind of be like setting up a solar panel, inverter, and battery bank just to run a grow room. although it may be more efficient and cheaper to run on a monthly basis; the cost of setup would make it pointless.

Sr. Verde · Oct 24, 2012

Scooby your on the same page as me this morning.

I just had some electricians come by, they said they want to drop a #10 into the room and get its own panel.

They also said they could drill some 8 inch holes into the attic to run air.

With this in mind, and using 1000w light + 600w light. What setup would you think would be best?

I was planning on using a 1 or a 1&1/2HP chiller with the lights, but now that the idea of drilling into the ceiling comes into question I'm unsure of the best setup.

Should I run the air from outside the tent, into the hoods, through an ice box, and into the attic? Or should I just run AC in the tent room, and run the air through the lights and into the attic?

Would love some help, I'm really scratching my head on this one..

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 24, 2012

Sr. Verde said:
Scooby your on the same page as me this morning.

I just had some electricians come by, they said they want to drop a #10 into the room and get its own panel.

They also said they could drill some 8 inch holes into the attic to run air.

With this in mind, and using 1000w light + 600w light. What setup would you think would be best?

I was planning on using a 1 or a 1&1/2HP chiller with the lights, but now that the idea of drilling into the ceiling comes into question I'm unsure of the best setup.

Should I run the air from outside the tent, into the hoods, through an ice box, and into the attic? Or should I just run AC in the tent room, and run the air through the lights and into the attic?

Would love some help, I'm really scratching my head on this one..

hey bud, sounds like you have a dilemna. you have options; which is a good thing. :bigjoint:

the fact that you can exhaust air into the attic is probably the deciding factor. you wouldn't want to cool the air going to the attic through an ice box. that would just be a waste. the ice box is designed to cool the air that is being distributed back into the room. if you exhaust that air into the attic from the lights i would just run the air from the outside room through the 2 lights and then into the attic. then; all you would really need is either a good ventilation/air flow system with intakes and exhausts or a small portable a/c; will depend on the ambient temps where you live.

the chiller setup is going to cost you a lot of extra money. it is more efficient so you will save money over time on your electric bill but i'm not sure if in yuour situation it warrants you spending all that cash upfront. i had to install chillers because of my situation but in your case it may not be the best option. everyone is different and has a different setup. i have solid concrete walls; very hot environment; no attic; and i need a sealed room because of pest and humidity issues.

the other thing with the commercial chillers is that they really need to be placed outside. this becomes an issue in areas where you get low temps because the compressor won't work properly. just like minisplit units; they need a special attachment to work in cold temperatures.

berkman858 · Oct 24, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
hey bud, sounds like you have a dilemna. you have options; which is a good thing.

the fact that you can exhaust air into the attic is probably the deciding factor. you wouldn't want to cool the air going to the attic through an ice box. that would just be a waste. the ice box is designed to cool the air that is being distributed back into the room. if you exhaust that air into the attic from the lights i would just run the air from the outside room through the 2 lights and then into the attic. then; all you would really need is either a good ventilation/air flow system with intakes and exhausts or a small portable a/c; will depend on the ambient temps where you live.

the chiller setup is going to cost you a lot of extra money. it is more efficient so you will save money over time on your electric bill but i'm not sure if in yuour situation it warrants you spending all that cash upfront. i had to install chillers because of my situation but in your case it may not be the best option. everyone is different and has a different setup. i have solid concrete walls; very hot environment; no attic; and i need a sealed room because of pest and humidity issues.

the other thing with the commercial chillers is that they really need to be placed outside. this becomes an issue in areas where you get low temps because the compressor won't work properly. just like minisplit units; they need a special attachment to work in cold temperatures.

Just curious as to why a chiller wouldn't work properly at low ambient temperatures. Or is it that it can't work if the ambient temperature is too low? And how low is too low?

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 24, 2012

berkman858 said:
Just curious as to why a chiller wouldn't work properly at low ambient temperatures. Or is it that it can't work if the ambient temperature is too low? And how low is too low?

i mentioned "ambient" temps when referring to the temperature of the room. cooling needs are always determined by the temps in the room you are working. a guy in a garage in arizona is gonna need more cooling than a guy in a basement in the mountains of colorado.

as far as the chiller not working properly in cold temps; all compressors work the same way. if it is too cold outside then it creates issues with the unit. this is why minisplits were originally designed for warmer climates; their outdoor compressor needs to maintain a certain minimum temp so they aren't ideal for places where it gets cold. i'm not sure what the temperature is and you would have to check with the manufacturer. i've never dealt with the issue but all miniplit companies have the temps listed in their manuals and most of them offer an additional feature that will let you run the unit in low temps. even the commercial chiller companies are starting to make units without compressors for cooler climates.

berkman858 · Oct 24, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
i mentioned "ambient" temps when referring to the temperature of the room. cooling needs are always determined by the temps in the room you are working. a guy in a garage in arizona is gonna need more cooling than a guy in a basement in the mountains of colorado.

as far as the chiller not working properly in cold temps; all compressors work the same way. if it is too cold outside then it creates issues with the unit. this is why minisplits were originally designed for warmer climates; their outdoor compressor needs to maintain a certain minimum temp so they aren't ideal for places where it gets cold. i'm not sure what the temperature is and you would have to check with the manufacturer. i've never dealt with the issue but all miniplit companies have the temps listed in their manuals and most of them offer an additional feature that will let you run the unit in low temps. even the commercial chiller companies are starting to make units without compressors for cooler climates.

OK I was confused, I meant the outside temperature where the chiller would be located. I have seen the ChillKing compressorless model for low temperature locations but I didn't think a regular chiller wouldn't work if it were cold, but now I have something new to research.

Sr. Verde · Oct 24, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
hey bud, sounds like you have a dilemna. you have options; which is a good thing.

the fact that you can exhaust air into the attic is probably the deciding factor. you wouldn't want to cool the air going to the attic through an ice box. that would just be a waste. the ice box is designed to cool the air that is being distributed back into the room. if you exhaust that air into the attic from the lights i would just run the air from the outside room through the 2 lights and then into the attic. then; all you would really need is either a good ventilation/air flow system with intakes and exhausts or a small portable a/c; will depend on the ambient temps where you live.

the chiller setup is going to cost you a lot of extra money. it is more efficient so you will save money over time on your electric bill but i'm not sure if in yuour situation it warrants you spending all that cash upfront. i had to install chillers because of my situation but in your case it may not be the best option. everyone is different and has a different setup. i have solid concrete walls; very hot environment; no attic; and i need a sealed room because of pest and humidity issues.

the other thing with the commercial chillers is that they really need to be placed outside. this becomes an issue in areas where you get low temps because the compressor won't work properly. just like minisplit units; they need a special attachment to work in cold temperatures.

Your making a lot of sense! I didn't think about how the ice boxes rely on running the same air dozens of times an hour. Now I realize I definitely want to recirculate the ice box air if I do water chiller.

So to be clear on having the air run through the lights and into the attic.. Are you saying I need to have the air source come from a different room, and go through the lights and into the attic?

The guys that came to my place said they wanted two holes in the same room. Having the air being exhausted into the attic, while sucking air from the attic into the tent didn't make sense to me. It made me think dirty air from the attic would be running through my lights. And if there was a dust storm (happens a lot actually) my lights might get dirty!

As far as commercial chillers, I'm not really sure that I could put a unit outside. I think the pool guys that come with the house would start asking questions, and I wouldn't want to set myself up to be robbed by the pool guys friend. Would a 1hp or 1&1/2hp need to be outside? I was looking at the ecoplus originally but I've read that you said the chill kings are better and would be cool with making the investment on the chill king if it's really worth it.

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 24, 2012

Sr. Verde said:
Your making a lot of sense! I didn't think about how the ice boxes rely on running the same air dozens of times an hour. Now I realize I definitely want to recirculate the ice box air if I do water chiller.

So to be clear on having the air run through the lights and into the attic.. Are you saying I need to have the air source come from a different room, and go through the lights and into the attic?

The guys that came to my place said they wanted two holes in the same room. Having the air being exhausted into the attic, while sucking air from the attic into the tent didn't make sense to me. It made me think dirty air from the attic would be running through my lights. And if there was a dust storm (happens a lot actually) my lights might get dirty!

As far as commercial chillers, I'm not really sure that I could put a unit outside. I think the pool guys that come with the house would start asking questions, and I wouldn't want to set myself up to be robbed by the pool guys friend. Would a 1hp or 1&1/2hp need to be outside? I was looking at the ecoplus originally but I've read that you said the chill kings are better and would be cool with making the investment on the chill king if it's really worth it.

you can use the air from inside of the room to pull through the lights or you can use air from outside of the room. the only difference is that if you use the air from inside of the room then you will want to filter it through a carbon filter before you pull it through the lights and exhaust it. this will help keep the bulbs and glass clean and will also eliminate any odor in the air that is being exhausted into the attic and possibly other areas of the house. i would just pull air from the room and use a carbon filter. this will create negative prssure in the room and help to keep the odor from creeping out of seems in the room; plus it will help to cool the room.

i don't have any experience with the ecoplus units but i'm pretty sure they run the same way as the chillking models and would need a very well ventilated area. they are designed to pull cool air over their coils and leaving them in a closed room will only create heat which in turn will eventually make the room so hot that the air being forced over the coils won't be cool enough. i know for a fact that the chillking models really need to be outside or at least halfway outside like a window a/c unit.

Sr. Verde · Oct 25, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
you can use the air from inside of the room to pull through the lights or you can use air from outside of the room. the only difference is that if you use the air from inside of the room then you will want to filter it through a carbon filter before you pull it through the lights and exhaust it. this will help keep the bulbs and glass clean and will also eliminate any odor in the air that is being exhausted into the attic and possibly other areas of the house. i would just pull air from the room and use a carbon filter. this will create negative prssure in the room and help to keep the odor from creeping out of seems in the room; plus it will help to cool the room.

i don't have any experience with the ecoplus units but i'm pretty sure they run the same way as the chillking models and would need a very well ventilated area. they are designed to pull cool air over their coils and leaving them in a closed room will only create heat which in turn will eventually make the room so hot that the air being forced over the coils won't be cool enough. i know for a fact that the chillking models really need to be outside or at least halfway outside like a window a/c unit.

Damn. So if I really need the chiller unit to be outside, and that's no go, then should I just ditch the chiller plan?.

I'm slowly starting to think I just need to get some holes drilled for AC and get like a 12,000 BTU unit or something + dehumidifier.. Then perhaps I wouldn't have to worry about 55gal -100 gal reservoirs, outside units, and thousands of dollars in equipment. Thoughts? With the 240v line in, the amps pulled by the ac would be like 6-7. Last week I was looking at the 120v setup and thinking a 9amp chiller would be better over a 14 amp AC unit as far as AMPs being taken up in the room.

Then am I stuck with AC? AC is cool though, might work better anyway.

As far as the carbon filter + the lights..... I'm with you on keeping the bulb and glass clean with a carbon filter, however wouldn't having a filter run through the lights, basically make it so I couldn't use ice boxes on my lights? If i hooked up to carbon filter to lights, then I would need to put the ice boxes on the lights, and then I would be exhausting the chilled air into the attic, which you yourself said wasn't ideal.

Your information is extremely valuable by the way, it's really helping me out. None of the guys at the hydro store had any good information on the chillers, just general knowledge. For instance they never told me about it being needing to be outside.

Orlandocb · Oct 25, 2012

Guess i'll put in my 2 cents but if you had the air exhaust in the attic, chill in the attic, then re-circulate through the system maybe that would be ok

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 25, 2012

Sr. Verde said:
Damn. So if I really need the chiller unit to be outside, and that's no go, then should I just ditch the chiller plan?.

I'm slowly starting to think I just need to get some holes drilled for AC and get like a 12,000 BTU unit or something + dehumidifier.. Then perhaps I wouldn't have to worry about 55gal -100 gal reservoirs, outside units, and thousands of dollars in equipment. Thoughts? With the 240v line in, the amps pulled by the ac would be like 6-7. Last week I was looking at the 120v setup and thinking a 9amp chiller would be better over a 14 amp AC unit as far as AMPs being taken up in the room.

Then am I stuck with AC? AC is cool though, might work better anyway.

As far as the carbon filter + the lights..... I'm with you on keeping the bulb and glass clean with a carbon filter, however wouldn't having a filter run through the lights, basically make it so I couldn't use ice boxes on my lights? If i hooked up to carbon filter to lights, then I would need to put the ice boxes on the lights, and then I would be exhausting the chilled air into the attic, which you yourself said wasn't ideal.

Your information is extremely valuable by the way, it's really helping me out. None of the guys at the hydro store had any good information on the chillers, just general knowledge. For instance they never told me about it being needing to be outside.

i'd go with the a/c unit instead and exhaust the lights into the attic. just seems more logical in your scenario. you can get 240v ballast cords and run your lights on that 240v line.

you can run a carbon filter on the lights with an ice box; i do it. i think you got confused on that one. either way (with or without ice boxes) you can use the carbon filter to either scrub the air before you exhaust it into the attic or you can use it just to scrub the air you recirculate back into the room. you wouldn't use ice boxes if you were exhausting the air into the attic. you only use the ice boxes if you have the chiller.

Sr. Verde · Oct 25, 2012

Ok that sounds great. I'm going 12,000 BTU AC.

I think I have a plan together, I just finished up at the hydro store, had a good convo with the guy and came out with a couple bags of soil.

Going to have the AC in the corner of the room, and have the AC hoses run up into the attic for exhaust/intake for the AC. Then I will have two 8 inch holes in the ceiling for the lights. I'll have a mushroom HEPA filter on the intake hose for the lights, and run the attic air through the lights, and back into the attic. The HEPA should take care of any dust problem.

Now the only question is where in the 8 inch ducting to mount the inline fan for optimal airflow through the lights and into the attic.

Also, I will have to get another fan for the rooms carbon filter, to keep the smell down?

Orlandocb · Oct 26, 2012

Your grow area sounds bigger than my apartment lol

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Oct 26, 2012

Sr. Verde said:
Ok that sounds great. I'm going 12,000 BTU AC.

I think I have a plan together, I just finished up at the hydro store, had a good convo with the guy and came out with a couple bags of soil.

Going to have the AC in the corner of the room, and have the AC hoses run up into the attic for exhaust/intake for the AC. Then I will have two 8 inch holes in the ceiling for the lights. I'll have a mushroom HEPA filter on the intake hose for the lights, and run the attic air through the lights, and back into the attic. The HEPA should take care of any dust problem.

Now the only question is where in the 8 inch ducting to mount the inline fan for optimal airflow through the lights and into the attic.

Also, I will have to get another fan for the rooms carbon filter, to keep the smell down?

that's why i suggested pulling the air from the room through the lights. if you pull air from the attic then chances are it is going to be very hot and less efficient at cooling the lights. plus; you are going to have to find a way to connect a filter in the attic on the intake hole to eliminate dusk and dirt and you will need another filter and fan in the room to recirculate the air and eliminate odor. if you hook the fan up on the intake side of one of the hoods and pull the air from inside of the room then you won't need an extra fan and filter and it will be a lot more efficient at cooling the lights.

Sr. Verde · Oct 26, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
that's why i suggested pulling the air from the room through the lights. if you pull air from the attic then chances are it is going to be very hot and less efficient at cooling the lights. plus; you are going to have to find a way to connect a filter in the attic on the intake hole to eliminate dusk and dirt and you will need another filter and fan in the room to recirculate the air and eliminate odor. if you hook the fan up on the intake side of one of the hoods and pull the air from inside of the room then you won't need an extra fan and filter and it will be a lot more efficient at cooling the lights.

I just ordered one of these hepa filters last night: http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Air-Filter-Inch-Hepa/dp/B0032JYP6Q . I was told i should be able to put that in the attic with the intake, and should avoid getting my lights dirty. However the guy there said he runs the same circuit and doesn't have a problem with dirt/dust/debris. He said I could spend an extra $100 on the HEPA if I was worried so I did.

So you think instead of going attic intake to attic exhaust... I should just hook up a carbon filter in the room and pump the air out of the room into the attic? The problem with that though is that it's no longer a sealed room correct? Can't use co2.

But would it be worth it to intake from the room? I'm just feeling like there will be problems with where to pull in new air from, if 500cfm is being pushed into the attic. The door is going to be blocked up, and I don't have fresh air intake like some houses.

TriSum · Nov 6, 2012

Lot's of great info here. Thanks !!

ScoobyDoobyDoo · Nov 6, 2012

Sr. Verde said:
I just ordered one of these hepa filters last night: http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Air-Filter-Inch-Hepa/dp/B0032JYP6Q . I was told i should be able to put that in the attic with the intake, and should avoid getting my lights dirty. However the guy there said he runs the same circuit and doesn't have a problem with dirt/dust/debris. He said I could spend an extra $100 on the HEPA if I was worried so I did.

So you think instead of going attic intake to attic exhaust... I should just hook up a carbon filter in the room and pump the air out of the room into the attic? The problem with that though is that it's no longer a sealed room correct? Can't use co2.

But would it be worth it to intake from the room? I'm just feeling like there will be problems with where to pull in new air from, if 500cfm is being pushed into the attic. The door is going to be blocked up, and I don't have fresh air intake like some houses.

your attic gets hot in the summer. that is the purpose of an attic. to act as a heat buffer. so essentially you will be heating air in your hoods and exhausting it into an already hot attic. then you'll be sucking that hot air back through your lights. eventually the air will be so hot it won't be cooling anything. your grow room is inside of a room. pull air from that "lung" room through your lights and then exhaust it into the attic. if i am incorrect and you are using the WHOLE room as a grow then pull the air from the room through your lights. you are WAY too concerned about a "sealed" room when in reality none of what you are doing is actually sealed. that's just my opinion on your best option. if you feel differently then try out your way. i'm just giving you my advice. i don't know your house or setup so in reality my advice is just an opinion.

Sr. Verde · Nov 10, 2012

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
your attic gets hot in the summer. that is the purpose of an attic. to act as a heat buffer. so essentially you will be heating air in your hoods and exhausting it into an already hot attic. then you'll be sucking that hot air back through your lights. eventually the air will be so hot it won't be cooling anything. your grow room is inside of a room. pull air from that "lung" room through your lights and then exhaust it into the attic. if i am incorrect and you are using the WHOLE room as a grow then pull the air from the room through your lights. you are WAY too concerned about a "sealed" room when in reality none of what you are doing is actually sealed. that's just my opinion on your best option. if you feel differently then try out your way. i'm just giving you my advice. i don't know your house or setup so in reality my advice is just an opinion.

Word. I appreciate the help. I get 100% what your saying.

If/when it gets too hot I can just disconnect the intake and pull air from the room and push into the attic.

dajackel12 · Dec 14, 2012

Hey,

I'm pretty new to this and I'm wondering if anyone can advise me, I'm looking to cool the exhaust air from a grow tent as i'm a little concerned over excessive heat in the house. I've been looking at ways to do this but just need some advise to see if i'm on the right track. I've uploaded my grow room plan and I'm wondering if its possible to use a icebox to cool the exhaust air? If it is possible then can someone advise on what sort of chiller I would need to run the ice box. I'm not a big grower and i'm planning to grow in a house so excessive noise,electric usage and heat are a concern so I'm not sure what sort of system to look at.

Thanks

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