War

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Analysis: Russia using 'human wave' troops in Donbas

471,884 views Nov 25, 2022
Prof Michael Clarke analyses the latest situation on the ground in Ukraine, with Russia suffering heavy troop losses in the Donbas region.

He explains how the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and three others remain under continued attack and have gone offline from the main electricity grid, now relying on backup generators.

The strategy of attacking such infrastructure is a hallmark of General Sergey Surovikin who says that he "has the technical means of making Ukraine surrender", says Prof Clarke.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:

Analysis: Russia using 'human wave' troops in Donbas

471,884 views Nov 25, 2022
Prof Michael Clarke analyses the latest situation on the ground in Ukraine, with Russia suffering heavy troop losses in the Donbas region.

He explains how the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and three others remain under continued attack and have gone offline from the main electricity grid, now relying on backup generators.

The strategy of attacking such infrastructure is a hallmark of General Sergey Surovikin who says that he "has the technical means of making Ukraine surrender", says Prof Clarke.
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it's time to give Ukraine some weapons that will reach into russia and put their fucking lights out...whats good for the goose is good for the shitty diseased russian gander
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
it's time to give Ukraine some weapons that will reach into russia and put their fucking lights out...whats good for the goose is good for the shitty diseased russian gander
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From the drone strikes they are doing on Crimea; I'd say the probably have the means to turn some lights off in Russia at least. However, would it be wise to retaliate at this point, it will probably not stop the attacks, shooting down them down and running out of missiles will. Retaliation in kind would remove the moral high ground and could have international repercussions. Ukraine is looking at a 300 billion Euro pay off of seized Russian money from the EU, with perhaps more coming from the UK and US. It would be used to payback aid given and help to alleviate Europe's financial problems too. Ukraine will spend a lot of that money in the EU too and every contractor and building supplier in the EU will be in on the action for reconstruction.

I think they can retaliate in kind and I'm looking for reasons they haven't, one would be it would probably be a war crime to attack the power grid, even if they are attacking yours. Just because they mistreat prisoners, doesn't mean you can also, civilized people live by standards and law, it's what they are fighting for after all.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

See ex-military official's warning about Putin and nuclear power plants

11,122 views Nov 26, 2022
Retired Col. Cedric Leighton discusses Russia's attacks on the energy infrastructure in Ukraine that has caused massive blackouts. #CNN #News
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Think Joe talked to Xi about supplying China with the latest covid vaccines? There have been reports that Xi is in poor health and his personal paranoia about covid seems to be affecting public policy. They are fighting a losing battle and Joe should be able to use vaccines as leverage or at least goodwill, unless Xi and his cronies already have those vaccines, fuck everybody else! China is one of those places where change happens from the top down, but they can feel the heat coming from below.


Protests grow throughout China over COVID-19 lockdowns | DW News

6,595 views Nov 26, 2022
Unrest is growing in China over strict COVID-19 lockdown measures. Protests have broken out in several parts of the country, including in the Xinjiang region, where many people have been barred from leaving their homes for more than three months. Protests in the regional capital Urumqi came after an apartment block fire killed ten people. Some residents say the restrictions on movement hampered rescue efforts. Growing frustration over the lockdowns almost three years after the pandemic broke out is increasingly putting Beijing's 'Zero-Covid' policy under pressure.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
From the drone strikes they are doing on Crimea; I'd say the probably have the means to turn some lights off in Russia at least. However, would it be wise to retaliate at this point, it will probably not stop the attacks, shooting down them down and running out of missiles will. Retaliation in kind would remove the moral high ground and could have international repercussions. Ukraine is looking at a 300 billion Euro pay off of seized Russian money from the EU, with perhaps more coming from the UK and US. It would be used to payback aid given and help to alleviate Europe's financial problems too. Ukraine will spend a lot of that money in the EU too and every contractor and building supplier in the EU will be in on the action for reconstruction.

I think they can retaliate in kind and I'm looking for reasons they haven't, one would be it would probably be a war crime to attack the power grid, even if they are attacking yours. Just because they mistreat prisoners, doesn't mean you can also, civilized people live by standards and law, it's what they are fighting for after all.
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why would retaliation in kind remove the moral high ground? they wouldn't be targeting civilians, they wouldn't be targeting schools or hospitals, or apartment buildings...all things the russians have done from the start. i see not one reason in the world that the Ukrainians starting to destroy russia's infrastructure in retaliation would effect any kind of moral ground...and it is WAY past time to bring some of the war home to the russians. why should they get to dictate where the destruction happens? why should anything of theirs be out of bounds? letting them stay warm and comfortable this winter is a strategic error. if they want the russian people to get rid of putin, give them some fucking incentives to do so...turn their lights and heat off, and let putin try to talk his way out of that with a staged meeting...
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
why would retaliation in kind remove the moral high ground? they wouldn't be targeting civilians, they wouldn't be targeting schools or hospitals, or apartment buildings...all things the russians have done from the start. i see not one reason in the world that the Ukrainians starting to destroy russia's infrastructure in retaliation would effect any kind of moral ground...and it is WAY past time to bring some of the war home to the russians. why should they get to dictate where the destruction happens? why should anything of theirs be out of bounds? letting them stay warm and comfortable this winter is a strategic error. if they want the russian people to get rid of putin, give them some fucking incentives to do so...turn their lights and heat off, and let putin try to talk his way out of that with a staged meeting...
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They may do it yet, but haven't up to this point for a reason, those drones can go north as well as south and producing a lot of them in a short time should not be an issue with containerloads of parts from abroad. Make the fiberglass wings and fuse in molds with fiberglass, composite or even fiber reinforced plastic and add the parts you imported, after testing the basic design of course.

They would need to do it with their own drones and not US shit and it might drive Vlad over the edge for nukes or chemicals. I'm pretty sure it would be a war crime and might lead to a hold on some EU cash collected from the Russians in the EU courts etc. Ukraine is going before the world court and courtrooms around the world for reparations from Russia and to prosecute war crimes and perhaps even get its kidnapped citizens back, and a raccoon apparently. They will need to be clean as a cat's asshole when they go to court. Just some of the possible reasons, aside from Uncle Sam advising them not too because they have inside info on the reaction in Russia if the lights go out, for the whole winter.

Don't disturb the bear while he is being blead to death on the battlefield and his economy is collapsing, as the corner he is in tightens. The Ukrainians should be OK this winter, as Winston said, you do your worst, and we will do our best. The Ukrainians will tolerate it because they know by next summer at the latest, they will break Russia's back, besides they know how to make wood stoves from junk laying around and generators are pouring into the place by the thousands. Power systems from all over Europe use the same standard equipment and are also lending them aid. There are also nuclear power stations in Ukraine under Russian control and shutting off the lights back home might provoke something nasty, and they owe it to those giving them aid to prevent this from happening. Just some of the considerations.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
why would one combatant in an armed conflict attacking his opponents infrastructure be a war crime? that doesn't make any sense. intentionally killing civilians is a war crime, intentionally bombing electrical substations full of transformers sure seems like it ought to be a valid target.
same for water treatment plants, sewage plants, rail yards. why would any of that be considered a war crime?
while we're at it, broadcast towers, and the lines connecting russia to the rest of the world's telecomm systems ought to be valid targets as well.
this whole wait and let them choke themselves to death shit is just that...shit...it's past time to help them choke themselves.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
why would one combatant in an armed conflict attacking his opponents infrastructure be a war crime? that doesn't make any sense. intentionally killing civilians is a war crime, intentionally bombing electrical substations full of transformers sure seems like it ought to be a valid target.
same for water treatment plants, sewage plants, rail yards. why would any of that be considered a war crime?
while we're at it, broadcast towers, and the lines connecting russia to the rest of the world's telecomm systems ought to be valid targets as well.
this whole wait and let them choke themselves to death shit is just that...shit...it's past time to help them choke themselves.
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perhaps because infrastructure is shot through with many noncombatants.

It’s why the Allies going after German industrial capacity got so ugly.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
perhaps because infrastructure is shot through with many noncombatants.

It’s why the Allies going after German industrial capacity got so ugly.
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well fuck, lets just let the motherfucking russians do what the fuck ever they want, as long as they bury the last Ukrainian with clean hands...
some people seem to be antiseptic armchair generals...war is fucking dirty, if you aren't dirty at the end of the day, you didn't fucking participate, you second guessed. or DIED.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
why would one combatant in an armed conflict attacking his opponents infrastructure be a war crime? that doesn't make any sense. intentionally killing civilians is a war crime, intentionally bombing electrical substations full of transformers sure seems like it ought to be a valid target.
same for water treatment plants, sewage plants, rail yards. why would any of that be considered a war crime?
while we're at it, broadcast towers, and the lines connecting russia to the rest of the world's telecomm systems ought to be valid targets as well.
this whole wait and let them choke themselves to death shit is just that...shit...it's past time to help them choke themselves.
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I dunno, just guessing at what I figure is their restraint, since I believe they have the equivalent of flying 155mm artillery shell that can go hundreds of miles and likely penetrate Russian air defenses.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
well fuck, lets just let the motherfucking russians do what the fuck ever they want, as long as they bury the last Ukrainian with clean hands...
some people seem to be antiseptic armchair generals...war is fucking dirty, if you aren't dirty at the end of the day, you didn't fucking participate, you second guessed. or DIED.
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It’s always a matter of scale. We can attack infrastructure targets much more cleanly now than then. But tank battles and dumb artillery are not the way.
Imo the capacity to do it cleaner (with a concomitant expenditure of scarce smart weapons) brings with it an obligation. It is not as black/white as your complaint suggests to me.

The Russians are focusing attack on nuclear power plants. This is the sort of malice that could get Nato flying missions over the battlefield. It is a complex and interesting situation.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
It’s always a matter of scale. We can attack infrastructure targets much more cleanly now than then. But tank battles and dumb artillery are not the way.
Imo the capacity to do it cleaner (with a concomitant expenditure of scarce smart weapons) brings with it an obligation. It is not as black/white as your complaint suggests to me.

The Russians are focusing attack on nuclear power plants. This is the sort of malice that could get Nato flying missions over the battlefield. It is a complex and interesting situation.
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it IS a complex and interesting situation, i do not deny that...i do very highly doubt that we will ever, and i do mean EVER see NATO do one fucking thing to anyone, anywhere, ever...that does not seem to be their purpose. their purpose seems to me to be very much the same as putin's stockpile of moldy, out of date, poorly maintained nukes...a hollow threat.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
it IS a complex and interesting situation, i do not deny that...i do very highly doubt that we will ever, and i do mean EVER see NATO do one fucking thing to anyone, anywhere, ever...that does not seem to be their purpose. their purpose seems to me to be very much the same as putin's stockpile of moldy, out of date, poorly maintained nukes...a hollow threat.
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another premise I hope we won’t get to test.

(I also surmise that the nukes are maintained to a higher standard than Russian army stuff. Their air force has been better-kept, as the MiG-31 engagements have revealed. Bet the TU-160s also get above-average care as a primarily strategic platform. And don’t get me started on the subs.)

I think that there are defined thresholds that will get Nato directly involved. Causing a radiation leak at one of the power plants … I think odds are better than even that’s one such threshold. Even unsmart old tube/rocket artillery has a small enough cep that intent may be assigned.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
another premise I hope we won’t get to test.

(I also surmise that the nukes are maintained to a higher standard than Russian army stuff. Their air force has been better-kept, as the MiG-31 engagements have revealed. Bet the TU-160s also get above-average care as a primarily strategic platform. And don’t get me started on the subs.)

I think that there are defined thresholds that will get Nato directly involved. Causing a radiation leak at one of the power plants … I think odds are better than even that’s one such threshold. Even unsmart old tube/rocket artillery has a small enough cep that intent may be assigned.
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Not like i need to tell anyone, but i tend towards pessimism, and i'm impatient. I usually do just about everything i want done, myself. I don't trust others to do shit the way i want it done, and i got tired of arguing with people about it a long time ago.
i also grew up watching the man in the iron mask, the three musketeers, robin hood, Sherlock Holmes, reading the same kind of thing, with a good dose of Howard, Burroughs, Assimov, Bradbury. I think maybe I have a sense of chivalry, and sitting on the sidelines watching a smaller country fight a larger, hostile neighbor, with our weapons...makes me feel like a fucking coward...like i live in a country of cowards, that's part of a larger, grandiose "world police"...that is made up of cowards. tip toeing around a bully makes the bile rise in my throat. there is one proven way to deal with a bully...but you can't do that, because we, like fucking morons, didn't finish them off after WW2...and then we GAVE MORE NUKES TO RUSSIA when they dissolved as the ussr, and the smaller soviet block countries gained independence. Of course, our greatest enemy on earth PROMISED us that they wouldn't use those nukes against the countries that gave them up, and we PROMISED the countries that gave them up that we would protect them in return.
tuileries-garden-paris-near-louvre-facepalm-statue-30133767.jpg
 
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