The new pump...

The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Figured that I would post a few pics of my new setup as the bits start coming together. The whole thing won't be up and running for a few more weeks, but this way at least I can get some comments and feedback and hopefully not screw up to badly in the process.

I've done DWC and Flood & Drain rigs before, but this is going to be my first real Aeroponics setup so I would welcome any comments or feedback...


330 GPH Harbor Freight jet pump with some customization... The small line is just for the test setup... Parts for something very special are coming next week :-)
 

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The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Few more pics of the new power box for the pump.

I'm still working on this part, but it should be finished up today. I wanted to have a switch and pilot light mounted on the pump so that when tubes start popping off I'm not reaching for the extension cord :-) You know; sometimes that warm fuzzy feeling is a bad thing :-P

So the box is kind of large... There is a starting cap feeding the pump and it was just a bit to large for the smaller enclosure I had. This should also give me some space to mount a SSR for remote switching...

I guess this would be a good time to mention that I'm planning on running this whole rig with an Atmel Megga 128 micro running some custom code. This will let me fine tune everything on an ongoing basis and save a bit of coin on overpriced grow specific electronics... The plan is to eventually make an open-source grow controller that anyone can download plans for and make themselves.
 

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The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

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So it's the end of another day stuffing more stuff in a small box with bolts the size of my pinkey nail :-)

It's done though... So I fired up the pump and hooked up a few nozzles so ya'll could see the nice spray they put out.

And damn if I can't make one hell of a mess... But at least the project looks nice and clean!

I'm excited, solinoids should be delivered tomorrow... Pressure sensors the following day... And the big fatty from McMaster Carr should start arriving the day after that... It's going to be a busy week as I start putting all the buckets together and leek-testing everything...

And I even took a short break to go down to the SPCA with my lovely and patient girlfriend to adopt a new piggy... Cuz' you really can't have just one :-)

Now on with the pics!
 

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stevenr

Member
Just a word on Harbor Freight stuff: Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I had a business that required using painting pressure pots (I was reproducing folks sculptures, and the pressure crushed bubbles in the molds)....anyway, one of the damn things exploded. Imagine a 5lb, stainless steel frisbee flying around your basement!
So you might want a back-up pump, or use the H.F. as a back-up. Even if they replace your pump, they won't compensate you for your crop. (not even if you document the value, haha).
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
stevenr said:
Just a word on Harbor Freight stuff: Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I had a business that required using painting pressure pots (I was reproducing folks sculptures, and the pressure crushed bubbles in the molds)....anyway, one of the damn things exploded. Imagine a 5lb, stainless steel frisbee flying around your basement!
So you might want a back-up pump, or use the H.F. as a back-up. Even if they replace your pump, they won't compensate you for your crop. (not even if you document the value, haha).
Click to expand...
Good advice man, thanks! In all honesty I was just hoping to get one good grow out of it while I researched something a but more robust. Hoping to pick up something surplus from the food industry but I just can't quite stomach the price right now :-P

And they are right down the street should anything go wrong that doesn't take my head off :-)
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
It's been a busy morning here. Big parts order came in from LA yesterday evening so I took some shots and laid down some pipe :-)

Sprayer testing went better than I could have hoped... The last few shots show the amount of mist that accumulated in approximately 30 seconds while I was taking snap-shots. I'm sorry they are rather blurry, the mist really fucks with the cameras ability to focus.

The plan here (ultimately) is to run everything through the manifold which will have 4 solenoid valves -- one on each sub-rail -- with the control system running them one after the other with a little bit of overlap. Timing like this is pretty trivial to implement with the micro-controller and should let me run a virtually unlimited number of sprayers off the same pump. Since the on/off ratio only needs to be like 1:5 (very preliminary numbers here... I'm thinking I can actually get away with a much larger spread).




Ahh lovely bits...




Ready! Aim... (Wait is that a live extension cord???




FIRE!!!




The relief valve is about 1/3 open... The system will go to 75 PSI no problem.




This is the distribution manifold... Half populated. I'm just checking fit here, solenoids still need to go inline with each sub-manifold.




This busty looking valve was $178... Needless to say, it's going back tomorrow... Damn thing looks like it came across the border stuffed in someones arse! "So, where should we pack this really expensive valve sir?"

"Oh I don't know... Why don't you put it in a zip lock bag on the bottom of a heavy ass box of stainless steel pipe fittings... And while your at it, see how many you can get in the box from across the room!"

Morons....




What can I say? I just really like the way this is all coming together. It's starting to look like the engine bay in a race car.




 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
looks like your on your way to a nice aero setup, what size droplets are those nozzels putting out? who makes them? The only potential problem i can see is that with the misters in the bottom of the bucket facing up the roots will quickly engulf them . (Think of an eagles claw going around a fish) are you going to grow small plants cause the roots really go crazy. i always used 20 gallon containers for trees and they pretty well filled up. just something to think about might save you some agravation later. also with a bigger container that nice mist you have going on would be more effective in dispersing the mist thru the root mass, especially when they get bigger. also when your ready to do a run wrap some insulation around the containers. cheap and helps alot to keep the root zone temps down.

I take it the pump will run constantly and the selenoids just firing in rotation. you might want another line off the manifold with a control valve running to the res if thats the case. reason being any excess pressure and flow could just be diverted to the res giving better control over the pump load.

looks good, SS great choice. i may have also put the pressure gauge on the other side of the filter if your using the gauge to check the pump pressure as there usually is a drop of pressure thru the filter. if your using it to monitor the pressure going to the misters than its ok where its at. good luck. ill check in and see how it goes.
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
tree farmer said:
looks like your on your way to a nice aero setup, what size droplets are those nozzels putting out? who makes them? The only potential problem i can see is that with the misters in the bottom of the bucket facing up the roots will quickly engulf them . (Think of an eagles claw going around a fish) are you going to grow small plants cause the roots really go crazy. i always used 20 gallon containers for trees and they pretty well filled up. just something to think about might save you some agravation later. also with a bigger container that nice mist you have going on would be more effective in dispersing the mist thru the root mass, especially when they get bigger. also when your ready to do a run wrap some insulation around the containers. cheap and helps alot to keep the root zone temps down.

I take it the pump will run constantly and the selenoids just firing in rotation. you might want another line off the manifold with a control valve running to the res if thats the case. reason being any excess pressure and flow could just be diverted to the res giving better control over the pump load.

looks good, SS great choice. i may have also put the pressure gauge on the other side of the filter if your using the gauge to check the pump pressure as there usually is a drop of pressure thru the filter. if your using it to monitor the pressure going to the misters than its ok where its at. good luck. ill check in and see how it goes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the good advice man!

The misters are from McMaster Carr

www.mcmaster.com Item #: 3178K47
They are 10GPH @ 40 PSI, 22-66 micron droplet size.

I really did want to go with something bigger... I looked and looked though and just couldn't seem to find anything that had a decent price and build quality... I just cringe when I price commercial hydro reservoirs... $300 for a 4x4 vacuformed container??? But ultimately I know I gotta go with something better. Or make my own vacuforming rig :-)

I'm still not totally sure where I'm going to put the nozzles... I was thinking in from one side, about half way down would work well... Keep them out of the way... Though the idea of using a SS mesh cone that you guys were talking about seemed pretty good... That would let me have even coverage of the whole root mass from underneath and seems to have very few disadvantages...

The little buggers just spray so much though even when they are firing top down right against the edge of the bucket I only see about 1/3rd less spray out the top so I'm hoping it won't matter to much.

I currently have a Tee on the pump outlet, one side goes so it ends up going:

Res <- Relief Valve <- Pump Out -> Filter -> Pressure Gauge -> Testing Valve -> Sprayers

Still playing with the configuration there... I've got a couple of nice digital pressure gauges that will probably go one on the end of each sub-manifold. But I think your right about having a return off the top of the main manifold... Most logical place and it centralized all the control functions in one area.

I am planning on running the pump constantly... Though with the volume I'm seeing it seems like I might need another solenoid before the main manifold... a 3-Way to divert the flow back.

I'm getting pretty excited to see how this is all going to work out... Should have the manifold done later this evening and I'll post a few more pics.

T.M.H.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
The Mad Hatter said:
Thanks for all the good advice man!

The misters are from McMaster Carr

www.mcmaster.com Item #: 3178K47
They are 10GPH @ 40 PSI, 22-66 micron droplet size.

I really did want to go with something bigger... I looked and looked though and just couldn't seem to find anything that had a decent price and build quality... I just cringe when I price commercial hydro reservoirs... $300 for a 4x4 vacuformed container??? But ultimately I know I gotta go with something better. Or make my own vacuforming rig :-)

I'm still not totally sure where I'm going to put the nozzles... I was thinking in from one side, about half way down would work well... Keep them out of the way... Though the idea of using a SS mesh cone that you guys were talking about seemed pretty good... That would let me have even coverage of the whole root mass from underneath and seems to have very few disadvantages...

The little buggers just spray so much though even when they are firing top down right against the edge of the bucket I only see about 1/3rd less spray out the top so I'm hoping it won't matter to much.

I currently have a Tee on the pump outlet, one side goes so it ends up going:

Res <- Relief Valve <- Pump Out -> Filter -> Pressure Gauge -> Testing Valve -> Sprayers

Still playing with the configuration there... I've got a couple of nice digital pressure gauges that will probably go one on the end of each sub-manifold. But I think your right about having a return off the top of the main manifold... Most logical place and it centralized all the control functions in one area.

I am planning on running the pump constantly... Though with the volume I'm seeing it seems like I might need another solenoid before the main manifold... a 3-Way to divert the flow back.

I'm getting pretty excited to see how this is all going to work out... Should have the manifold done later this evening and I'll post a few more pics.

T.M.H.
Click to expand...
Im not sure when you talk about commercial res prices. I was refering to the 5 gal pail your putting the nozzels in. i have used all kinds of containers to house the LP nozzels over the years and it all depends on what your going to use as a cover and how many plant sites per container.
ive used 5 gal pails before with 10 inch net pots that just drop right in, no cover needed. I vegged with them and they worked very well but i never took anything to full maturity in the 5 gal pail. judging from what i saw just veging 3 weeks in the 5 gal pail id say if your doing one plant per container dont let them get over 8 inches before flipping them or theyll probbably cause some blockage by the time you finish them up. of coarse this depends on the lighting youll be using and the strains. I almost always used sat dominent strains with vertical light though and these sat dom. are a little different than the indies.

Youll be having some good run off with those nozzels so id advise at least 3/4 inch drains to help ensure when the roots matup on the bottom they wont slow down the draining process and cvause an excess of water to back up in your drain lines. I acutually use to use 1 inch but looking back i think 3/4 would of been fine.

i know you probably cant get to this on this run but something i learned that worked very well was to take a piece of simi rigid poly used for irrigation 1" and form a circle with it the size of the inside of the 5 gallon pail(if thats what your going to use) use a barb fittinfg to connect the ends so you have a circle that fits inside the 5 gallon pail. then take and put some plastic mesh over the poly circle you made and finally cover the plastic screen with some silk screen. Now you can put this in the bottom of the 5 gallon pail and it will keep the roots out of the runoff and keep them from plugging your drains. If you cut some short pieces of PVc and use them as legs you can lift the screen circle any hieght off the floor of the pail you want. It works very well to keep them roots that will matt up in the bottom from being waterlogged all the time cause the 5 gallon pails wont drain completly.This can cause problems at least it did me. not always but once it happens youll wish you would have lifted the roots off the container floor. Most people dont know this but roots wont grow thru fine silk screen yet water will pass right thru. ive used it for years and never had roots go thru. Ive got it over the drains in my new system and thier just growing over the top of the silk screen like it was the container bottom.

If you have alot of flow it doesnt matter if the roots are laying on the bottom but it sounds like youll be cycling the mist. im not sure how much runoff youll have with those nozzels either . All the nozzels i used were less than the 10gph.

I dont know if you caught it in my thread but i used utility sinks (approx 20 gallons)for the root chambers on my new system cause it eliminates the problems of water at the bottom of the container since sinks drain completly. they were on sale for like 20 bucks.of coarse then you have to make a cover. just something to think about for the future if you deciede to change containers.

i think you definatly want some sort of valve to release any excess flow that the nozzels arent using back to the res. Because if the flow is to low for the pump with the number of nozzels your currently using then the load on the pump will be excessive and might cause premature fauilure or might heat up the solution more than normal. Ive used those types of pumps and there good for quite a few nozzels but im just not sure if its going to heat up your solution to much running all the time. When i ran those pumps i used them in conjuction with accumulator tanks. they never heated up the solution then but they only ran for maybe 5 minutes every hour.I guess it depends on where the res is and if the return lines are insulated etc. The nice thing is once you do a run if you want to add an accumulaor tank it wont cost nothing but the tank price (around $100)cause youll already have everything else.

Have fun thats whats important
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
tree farmer said:
Im not sure when you talk about commercial res prices. I was refering to the 5 gal pail your putting the nozzels in. i have used all kinds of containers to house the LP nozzels over the years and it all depends on what your going to use as a cover and how many plant sites per container.
ive used 5 gal pails before with 10 inch net pots that just drop right in, no cover needed. I vegged with them and they worked very well but i never took anything to full maturity in the 5 gal pail. judging from what i saw just veging 3 weeks in the 5 gal pail id say if your doing one plant per container dont let them get over 8 inches before flipping them or theyll probbably cause some blockage by the time you finish them up. of coarse this depends on the lighting youll be using and the strains. I almost always used sat dominent strains with vertical light though and these sat dom. are a little different than the indies.

Youll be having some good run off with those nozzels so id advise at least 3/4 inch drains to help ensure when the roots matup on the bottom they wont slow down the draining process and cvause an excess of water to back up in your drain lines. I acutually use to use 1 inch but looking back i think 3/4 would of been fine.

i know you probably cant get to this on this run but something i learned that worked very well was to take a piece of simi rigid poly used for irrigation 1" and form a circle with it the size of the inside of the 5 gallon pail(if thats what your going to use) use a barb fittinfg to connect the ends so you have a circle that fits inside the 5 gallon pail. then take and put some plastic mesh over the poly circle you made and finally cover the plastic screen with some silk screen. Now you can put this in the bottom of the 5 gallon pail and it will keep the roots out of the runoff and keep them from plugging your drains. If you cut some short pieces of PVc and use them as legs you can lift the screen circle any hieght off the floor of the pail you want. It works very well to keep them roots that will matt up in the bottom from being waterlogged all the time cause the 5 gallon pails wont drain completly.This can cause problems at least it did me. not always but once it happens youll wish you would have lifted the roots off the container floor. Most people dont know this but roots wont grow thru fine silk screen yet water will pass right thru. ive used it for years and never had roots go thru. Ive got it over the drains in my new system and thier just growing over the top of the silk screen like it was the container bottom.

If you have alot of flow it doesnt matter if the roots are laying on the bottom but it sounds like youll be cycling the mist. im not sure how much runoff youll have with those nozzels either . All the nozzels i used were less than the 10gph.

I dont know if you caught it in my thread but i used utility sinks (approx 20 gallons)for the root chambers on my new system cause it eliminates the problems of water at the bottom of the container since sinks drain completly. they were on sale for like 20 bucks.of coarse then you have to make a cover. just something to think about for the future if you deciede to change containers.

i think you definatly want some sort of valve to release any excess flow that the nozzels arent using back to the res. Because if the flow is to low for the pump with the number of nozzels your currently using then the load on the pump will be excessive and might cause premature fauilure or might heat up the solution more than normal. Ive used those types of pumps and there good for quite a few nozzels but im just not sure if its going to heat up your solution to much running all the time. When i ran those pumps i used them in conjuction with accumulator tanks. they never heated up the solution then but they only ran for maybe 5 minutes every hour.I guess it depends on where the res is and if the return lines are insulated etc. The nice thing is once you do a run if you want to add an accumulaor tank it wont cost nothing but the tank price (around $100)cause youll already have everything else.

Have fun thats whats important
Click to expand...
Man... Once again all kinds of good info! Thanks TF...

Nice thing about living in an area where lots of people have a well is that Lows has half an isle dedicated to high pressure pumps, accumulator tanks, and all that jazz.

I was wondering what those pods of yours were made out off... A utility tank makes all kinds of sense! I'll have to keep my eye out for a sale...

Good to know about the silk screen... I have been having a hell of a time finding a decent combo of commercial fittings to put something together... Even McMaster had been coming up a bit short here so I like the idea with the barb...

I had even given some thought to just punching holds in the bottom and letting them run into gutters or some pipe... Makes a lot of sense to me cuz' A) It's cheap :-P B) Should be able to get complete drainage and C) It lets me move things around easy... But if I combine an "open" drainage system with the barb idea and just a short bit of tubing to direct it to the right place it aught to work out even better.

I'm definitely going to keep them small... 8" should work out just fine... Going with an Indica mix for the first round... Want to get all the kinks worked out with something more tolerant... But I can't resist growing some Sativas... You just can't beat the nice clean crisp high... Thinkin' man's budd :-P

I'm currently kicking a few cooling ideas around... Seems I can pick up a nice lab cooler off ebay for a few bucks... But I also have a few more esoteric ideas... TEC junctions are pretty cheep and I can use them with a DIY heat exchanger setup and place them inline where they need to be... Simple to control with an H-Bridge too...

Other thoughts revolve around cannibalizing a mini-fridge or freezer... Very cheep and it wouldn't take much... Either just stripping out the compressor and coils and submerging them... Or just building the res inside like folks do with a kegerator...

Well night everyone... Got to sleep, tomorrow is going to be a good day :-)

T.M.H.
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Going to fall asleep with my head on the keyboard here in a sec... So I'll put some comments on these in the morning...



The distro manifold and pump. Solenoids on the bottom of each sub-manifold will regulate flow on a timed cycle cascading from one spray bar to the next continuously. Have a few more lines hooked up right now then I will use initially.



I made this little switch box to test the solenoids since my control software is still in progress. I wanted to be able to evaluate flow volume... And to see if I would need to program some overlap on the in the time cycle to keep the pump from loading up at the transition points... The solenoids have a 250msec on/off time so this seems unnecessary.




Just another close up of the solenoids.




And the box... I think I was really sleepy :-) That and I just like looking at my own work :-P



I had to take a break from working on the system proper yesterday to build some temporary wooden supports so I could stack the buckets. These will be replaced with a rolling frame out of PVC or 80/20 aluminum channel... If I'm feeling rich.





Just a close up of the hose barbs... Just in case you were wondering they are machined stainless steel (316 alloy) and cost me about $7.38 each! Worth the money though IMHO... I've put about 75PSI through them with the tube just pressed on about half way, no clamps and they don't leak or pop off... Makes for a nice clean installation.




Here you can see on of the nozzles poking through the inside of a bucket. They just run through rubber gaskets into the side. Rows of buckets will run with the spray bars in parallel with a little clamp tying them together so they don't sag so much. This makes it pretty easy to pop off individual buckets and move them around or to service a sprayer.



One of the spray bars just resting on top... I actually used to to move the row of buckets :-)

Going to finish off the last row of buckets today. Hook them all up and do some timing tests... Finish off coding the solenoid control loop... For right now I'll be running 2 rows at the same time... Just didn't have the proper fittings or space to connect all 4 sub-manifolds at the same time... So I've got another large manifold on order and I'll just extend the whole kit lengthwise.

I got a nice SS box to put the whole assembly in... Need to cut a window in it though... It's just not proper to have all that pretty stuff hiding :-)

Sleep now. T.M.H.
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Just a few bonus shots here:



Keyence pressure sensor amplifier... These are really slick units... Wide range of pressure/vacuum sensing with different pressure heads. Lots of operating modes (The manual is 14 pages of charts and graphs), 2 alarm outputs that can drive a transistor, and one analogue voltage output that I will be feeding back into a display system. This is a demo that Keyence lent me, unfortunately they didn't make with the 4 units I requested (cheep bastards) even after I pressed the flesh and made nice with there rep... And they didn't even get the right pressure head so this one "only" does -80PSI/+15PSI but it's let me proto the interface side of things at least... And I managed to find a new sensor on ebay along with a complete gauge which is not quite as slick as this one... But it'll do...

Just in case you were wondering they told me that these units run a few hundred each! Suddenly analog pressure gauges from Harbor Freight don't look so bad :-)




This is the actual sensor head... Beefy looking little sucker eh? Sitting under it is my bench supply for the amplifier.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
The Mad Hatter said:
Just a few bonus shots here:



Keyence pressure sensor amplifier... These are really slick units... Wide range of pressure/vacuum sensing with different pressure heads. Lots of operating modes (The manual is 14 pages of charts and graphs), 2 alarm outputs that can drive a transistor, and one analogue voltage output that I will be feeding back into a display system. This is a demo that Keyence lent me, unfortunately they didn't make with the 4 units I requested (cheep bastards) even after I pressed the flesh and made nice with there rep... And they didn't even get the right pressure head so this one "only" does -80PSI/+15PSI but it's let me proto the interface side of things at least... And I managed to find a new sensor on ebay along with a complete gauge which is not quite as slick as this one... But it'll do...

Just in case you were wondering they told me that these units run a few hundred each! Suddenly analog pressure gauges from Harbor Freight don't look so bad :-)




This is the actual sensor head... Beefy looking little sucker eh? Sitting under it is my bench supply for the amplifier.
Click to expand...

looks like its coming right along. ive never used expensive SS barbed fittings like that. its great if they dont leak. anytime ive used a barb fitting it gets 2 hose clamps. i looked at Mcasters stuff yesterday and they have some really nice gear a person could use. alot of different nozzels i might have to try some out and the micron droplet sizes looks good also.

What size room is this all going into?
What voltages are the seloniods fired at? it will be nice once you get everything in its proper place. your going to have alot of money into the system so theres no turning back now so dont get frustrated if everything doesnt work right out of the gate.

im surprised more peeps havent chimed in. i guess it probably looks a little intimidating.
 
The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Yeh... McMaster really is great... Nice catalog... And cad files for lots of stuff too. I'll let you know if the fittings stay solid...

I've personally tried the 2 nozzles I posted about one full cone, one hollow cone... No really appreciable difference as far as I'm concerned... I ended up going with the full cone just figuring on root mass blocking parts of the spray pattern so I figured it was better to have the full pattern. I also tried 2 of the brass nozzles, the fogger that sprays onto a pin point seemed to dribble a much as it misted and the volume was lower... And the fancy $20 nozzle with the helix cut -- have not put any water through this one yet... But I'll post up when I do.

The room is roughly 14x14, mostly subterranean ... Concrete walls and floor, stays nice and cool. And I have another one thats about double that size that I can expand into when I need it.

The solenoids are 120V AC... Probably should have gone with the 24V DC variant, but it made them simple to test this way... And I have an opticly isolated triac output board that I'll run them through so it shouldn't be to bad... But that company I posted about for the DIN sockets in your thread has some slick parts that really got me thinking. They have cords with a bridge rectifier in them that are suppose to drive AC solenoids and eliminate the buzz while prolonging coil life... And they have a clear gasket sort of thing for the low voltage solenoids that has blue (I think Ga LED's are blue...) LED's in it that lights up when the solenoids on... Honestly I thought the ones I ordered were suppose to have an indicator light, but they did not...

I'm not to concerned about it all working out in one shot -- most things don't -- and like you said, as long as you have fun doing it things will work out in the end... One of the things I learned working at a high end body shop was that a lot of the time -- well 2 things really... Things that look like they are simple usually involve a lot of technique this is not readily apparent to a layperson... Simple things like running a file over so metal, or making a nice bead with a welder... And rarely do the people doing them consciously think about this... A lot of them couldn't even tell you what they are doing on that level... It's just automatic... You find a stroke that works and it becomes part of muscle memory... And the second is that a true craftsman is never intimidated when he has to do something a few times to get it right... Things take time, and as long as you can see it through most of the time you can make it work out... Everyone screws up... The difference is knowing how to fix it :-)

I'm guessing most people see the topic and just think "Oh gee... A new pump... Good for you... Now will someone please tell me what nutrient mix to use so I can grow a pound every 2 days? Does anyone know why my plants are turning spotted and the leaves are curling under? I don't have a camera and I'm not sure what Ph I'm running... But the spotts!" :-P

Hehehe that's kind of cold... Had more then my share of nute problems and they can be damn hard to figure out... One looks like the other and when you get more then one going it becomes damn near impossible.... Best damn thing I EVER learned was to just dump the solution, feed them something week for a day, and then start off fresh... The stuff is just too cheep to spend a bunch of time second guessing whats swirling around in your buckets.

I also noticed that one one of the pages McMaster has one of those air fed siphon nozzles like you and treath have been talking about... Probably not an atomix or anything... But it seemed pretty similar with the adjustment knob and all... That is one of the lame things about McMaster... You never know who actually makes the stuff until you get it in the mail... Sometimes it's obvious... And you do have to love the nice illustrations... But it can make judging fit and finish a bit of a problem.

T.M.H.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
The Mad Hatter said:
Yeh... McMaster really is great... Nice catalog... And cad files for lots of stuff too. I'll let you know if the fittings stay solid...

I've personally tried the 2 nozzles I posted about one full cone, one hollow cone... No really appreciable difference as far as I'm concerned... I ended up going with the full cone just figuring on root mass blocking parts of the spray pattern so I figured it was better to have the full pattern. I also tried 2 of the brass nozzles, the fogger that sprays onto a pin point seemed to dribble a much as it misted and the volume was lower... And the fancy $20 nozzle with the helix cut -- have not put any water through this one yet... But I'll post up when I do.

The room is roughly 14x14, mostly subterranean ... Concrete walls and floor, stays nice and cool. And I have another one thats about double that size that I can expand into when I need it.

The solenoids are 120V AC... Probably should have gone with the 24V DC variant, but it made them simple to test this way... And I have an opticly isolated triac output board that I'll run them through so it shouldn't be to bad... But that company I posted about for the DIN sockets in your thread has some slick parts that really got me thinking. They have cords with a bridge rectifier in them that are suppose to drive AC solenoids and eliminate the buzz while prolonging coil life... And they have a clear gasket sort of thing for the low voltage solenoids that has blue (I think Ga LED's are blue...) LED's in it that lights up when the solenoids on... Honestly I thought the ones I ordered were suppose to have an indicator light, but they did not...

I'm not to concerned about it all working out in one shot -- most things don't -- and like you said, as long as you have fun doing it things will work out in the end... One of the things I learned working at a high end body shop was that a lot of the time -- well 2 things really... Things that look like they are simple usually involve a lot of technique this is not readily apparent to a layperson... Simple things like running a file over so metal, or making a nice bead with a welder... And rarely do the people doing them consciously think about this... A lot of them couldn't even tell you what they are doing on that level... It's just automatic... You find a stroke that works and it becomes part of muscle memory... And the second is that a true craftsman is never intimidated when he has to do something a few times to get it right... Things take time, and as long as you can see it through most of the time you can make it work out... Everyone screws up... The difference is knowing how to fix it :-)

I'm guessing most people see the topic and just think "Oh gee... A new pump... Good for you... Now will someone please tell me what nutrient mix to use so I can grow a pound every 2 days? Does anyone know why my plants are turning spotted and the leaves are curling under? I don't have a camera and I'm not sure what Ph I'm running... But the spotts!" :-P

Hehehe that's kind of cold... Had more then my share of nute problems and they can be damn hard to figure out... One looks like the other and when you get more then one going it becomes damn near impossible.... Best damn thing I EVER learned was to just dump the solution, feed them something week for a day, and then start off fresh... The stuff is just too cheep to spend a bunch of time second guessing whats swirling around in your buckets.

I also noticed that one one of the pages McMaster has one of those air fed siphon nozzles like you and treath have been talking about... Probably not an atomix or anything... But it seemed pretty similar with the adjustment knob and all... That is one of the lame things about McMaster... You never know who actually makes the stuff until you get it in the mail... Sometimes it's obvious... And you do have to love the nice illustrations... But it can make judging fit and finish a bit of a problem.

T.M.H.
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thats cold alright but funny as well.:lol:
try testing a new system with strains youve never ran before while thier revegging.:wall: thats a challenge .

Ive learned that most nute issues sort themselves out eventually as they get older .plants are like people, some of them just arent happy no matter what you do.
 
L

lorenzop

Member
where did you get the spray nozzles? do you think the nozzles from an oil furnace would work, or would it be to small of a pin hole opening? not sure what the threading is like on them either.

the last thing I want to do is be the party crasher for such an awesome setup, before it's even finished yet, but I have to ask.. will the chemicals in the water damage the metal pipe? I don't know if the type you're using is affected by it or if there's any kind of coating on the inside. this forum is probably one of the best places to find out if you don't know.

truely kick ass setup. I would love to see it in action first hand. maybe one day I'll put together my own similar system so I can! I do have a pump that looks something like yours, but I only paid $30 for it on ebay, so the quality is questionable.

about the open source thing, I love the idea, I've been wanting to do the same thing for a long time now. I do have a computer program in the works and is almost finished, but I put to much time into it and the open source model just doesn't fit it any more. I'll be charging something for it, but not much. it will be well worth it. should be something I can be proud of, even with my high personal standards for my projects. you'll see a demo soon enough.

here, check this out. this isn't my program, but it's similar to it, with a similar name and written in the same language, but it's not mine and I haven't talked to the developer yet. it's open source, and a good start at a garden control program. ahh.. source forge is down again. I'll post the link when it's back up.
 
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