The left is losing more and more young voters everyday

hazorazo

New Member
Isnt that funny how that works? I have a hardcore republican 'friend' who still goes on about Obama's birth certificate and preaches personal responsibility like our friend Jack here yet he will take advantage of any and every govt program he can, even down to finding a vet for his dog. He collects social security, has govt health care, wrote off over $250,000 in credit card debt through bankruptcy, you name it. When I point out to him why he thinks he deserves all this and no one else does his only response is 'because I paid my dues'. Kind of reminds me of Jack.
It is hilarious....I have a friend that is hardcore Republican, and he is upset because he lost the respect of quite a few of our friends because of his political views and his need to post these on facebook all the time.........now he says he does not want to be associated with the Republican Party, because he has lost too many friends.....but he still has the same political views........This makes me laugh.....He is the same guy that votes anything good down, and now he does not want to be judged for his very own decisions.......honestly, I am surprised these guys can look themselves in the mirror each day and call themselves men.

And if Republicans were serious about limiting government intervention in our everyday lives, and at the same time limiting government spending, MARIJUANA WOULD BE LEGAL. PERIOD. That is your proof of the massive hypocrisy that is going on.......a bunch of people crying about government intervention in their lives and too much government spending.......but when faced with an easy decision to make an impact on both of those.....they do not. Really, today's Republicans stand for nothing solid, just a rag tag group of people that barely agree on anything.
 

hazyintentions

Well-Known Member

Here's the thing... empirical evidence from around the world suggests that in the healthcare feild, government intervention reduces costs. I could point to France, Germany, the UK, Canada and many others ALL of whom have socialized insurance(with the UK having a true socialized medical system where the doctors are gov employees) and ALL of them pay HALF of what we pay per person, with 99% coverage... This is undeniable, irrefutable fact. It's not because Americans are fat, or any other reason (Americans being fat does account for a very small portion of our extra costs but it is not the reason our costs are double other advanced nations)...

Obamacare aims to bend the curve to reduce future costs: If everyone is in the insurance pool, than that dilutes the amount of old and/or sick in the system compared to healthy individuals thus lowering costs, for example.

I want to address "death panels" as well real quick because the phrase has been blown out of proportion. What they're referring to is only about what the GOVERNMENT should pay for... how do you think it would work out if the government was paying for everyone's cancer treatment? It would get expensive for the taxpayers, right? Well, since government already does not help with cancer treatment, and private funds are already needed and Obamacare leaves private medical practice in tact - one with cancer would still pay for their treatment as they do now(if they can afford it)... If they cannot afford it, then they presumably die, but they would have without Obamacare too... So Obamacare isn't killing granny either.
I appreciate the reply, it was very well laid out and didn't cast blame which is a hard thing to find in this emotionally driven forum.

You are right in your argument that more people dilutes the pol there fore lowering costs, the problem is your are living in a country we every man is given rights to do as he sees fit and too many people such as myself do not want to have to buy into a government system of healthcare when our government has already failed to show it can function efficiently or effectively. I also can not accept an idea where everyone must pay into this system or be punished, it directly conflicts our Constitution.

For that reasons I will have to disagree with you for I do not believe America should have a Socialist based medical market, with that said it's clear that our medical system is fatally flawed and I would in all honestly partially blame this on the belief that our government helps fuels profits for the big pharma companies.

No matter what politicians will find ways to control and siphon off the people the represent, this is a fact and it is evil but unfortunately not going to change until American citizens hold themselves and their representatives responsible.

Did I come across clear through that?
 

hazorazo

New Member

Here's the thing... empirical evidence from around the world suggests that in the healthcare feild, government intervention reduces costs. I could point to France, Germany, the UK, Canada and many others ALL of whom have socialized insurance(with the UK having a true socialized medical system where the doctors are gov employees) and ALL of them pay HALF of what we pay per person, with 99% coverage... This is undeniable, irrefutable fact. It's not because Americans are fat, or any other reason (Americans being fat does account for a very small portion of our extra costs but it is not the reason our costs are double other advanced nations)...

Obamacare aims to bend the curve to reduce future costs: If everyone is in the insurance pool, than that dilutes the amount of old and/or sick in the system compared to healthy individuals thus lowering costs, for example.

I want to address "death panels" as well real quick because the phrase has been blown out of proportion. What they're referring to is only about what the GOVERNMENT should pay for... how do you think it would work out if the government was paying for everyone's cancer treatment? It would get expensive for the taxpayers, right? Well, since government already does not help with cancer treatment, and private funds are already needed and Obamacare leaves private medical practice in tact - one with cancer would still pay for their treatment as they do now(if they can afford it)... If they cannot afford it, then they presumably die, but they would have without Obamacare too... So Obamacare isn't killing granny either.
Just spoke to a Canadian lady the other day.....asked her what she thinks about her health care coverage, without me mentioning where I stand......I listened....and here is what she said.......

Paraphrasing.....she basically said that their preventative medicine is great....she can see a doctor anytime she needs to and it is not a problem. For any emergency surgery, like open heart surgery for example, there is not a wait time associated with these....they happen just as fast as in the U.S.

She said that the ONLY time they get wait times on surgery are when it is a prodedure like Knee surgery, which is not an emergency, and even those have reasonable wait times. She also said she is not working at the moment, so she picks up about 100 dollars a month in prescription coverage, but if she was working, even that would be covered by her employer 95 percent of the time.

She did complain about having to pay into auto insurance government pool, and said she wished they had our system of auto insurance, so she could pay less, because of her good driving record......I reminded her, that, although our freedom to choose rates is great, we also have to deal with a massive amount of uninsured drivers, and they are usually the worst drivers we have (since they have rates that are so high they cannot afford, one can only assume lots of accidents, dui's or tickets). After reminding her of that fact, she did say that was a good point, and they did not have that problem up there.

Overall, she would not trade her Canadian Health Coverage for ours. She is very happy with their system, and she said she would like to see her system implemented with a few changes to make it better, but overall was very happy with the One Payer System that Canada has.

The average American family of 4 will pay over 10K a year for health coverage to a private insurer that may deny coverage for pre existing conditions, or conditions not covered....this is what Medicine for profit is all about......we cannot fix what we have built here in America....merely bulldoze it and start over.
 

hazorazo

New Member
And I would expect nothing less from you since you're not equipped to debate issues, but would rather keep it personal. I'm sure in your litle world everyone who disagrees with you is a hypocrite.
Jack, in debate, you REGULARLY point out if your opponent is being hypocritical. Then you explain HOW they are being hypocritical. This is how you win debate.

When you claim to do one thing, and then we catch you doing the other, it DESTROYS YOUR CREDIBILITY. This is something we point out, by using your own statements against you. DEBATE at its best.
 

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1

Well-Known Member
Yea,,,I hate the Idea of Paying "More taxe's",,,and having Healthcare,,,I'd rather my taxes go into some local and state politician's pocket and admire there "lovley estste",,,Fuckin' Fed's,,,Telling me what I gotta do with your taxes,,,
 

Jack Fate

New Member
Jack, in debate, you REGULARLY point out if your opponent is being hypocritical. Then you explain HOW they are being hypocritical. This is how you win debate.

When you claim to do one thing, and then we catch you doing the other, it DESTROYS YOUR CREDIBILITY. This is something we point out, by using your own statements against you. DEBATE at its best.
Uh huh. That's nice.

Now when you want to show me where my facts are wrong then please do so. Making this personal seems to be all you have.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
It is hilarious....I have a friend that is hardcore Republican, and he is upset because he lost the respect of quite a few of our friends because of his political views and his need to post these on facebook all the time.........now he says he does not want to be associated with the Republican Party, because he has lost too many friends.....but he still has the same political views........This makes me laugh.....He is the same guy that votes anything good down, and now he does not want to be judged for his very own decisions.......honestly, I am surprised these guys can look themselves in the mirror each day and call themselves men.

And if Republicans were serious about limiting government intervention in our everyday lives, and at the same time limiting government spending, MARIJUANA WOULD BE LEGAL. PERIOD. That is your proof of the massive hypocrisy that is going on.......a bunch of people crying about government intervention in their lives and too much government spending.......but when faced with an easy decision to make an impact on both of those.....they do not. Really, today's Republicans stand for nothing solid, just a rag tag group of people that barely agree on anything.
Exactly! I have no problem with someone who stands by their convictions regardless of what side of the aisle they're on as long as they truly believe it. Its this smoke and mirrors crap that drives me nuts, like we are to stupid to see through the manipulation, and whats even more surprising is the amount of people that fall for it. You're right, if these people really believed in less govt marijuana would be legal and people would not be in jail over drug use. But they pick and choose, they want less govt when it comes to taxes, but they want more govt when it comes to abortion. They want less govt when it comes to guns, but they want more govt when it comes to drugs. They want less govt when it comes to social programs, but they want more govt when it comes to security. They are all for giving the govt more power to kill people with the death penalty, incarcerate people based on what they do to their own body and any other thing they feel is 'immoral'.
 

VTXDave

Well-Known Member
And if Republicans were serious about limiting government intervention in our everyday lives, and at the same time limiting government spending, MARIJUANA WOULD BE LEGAL. PERIOD. That is your proof of the massive hypocrisy that is going on.......a bunch of people crying about government intervention in their lives and too much government spending.......but when faced with an easy decision to make an impact on both of those.....they do not. Really, today's Republicans stand for nothing solid, just a rag tag group of people that barely agree on anything.
I agree with this.
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Apparently, all these arguments from the left are falling on mostly deaf ears. Sign of what's to come in 2012.

In the days leading up to Tuesday's election to choose New York Rep. Anthony Weiner's successor, two new independent polls show Republicans are poised to overtake the traditionally Democratic Brooklyn-Queens area district. Republicans have not held the seat since 1923.
Here's the link to the full article of anyone's interested.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/more-good-news-republicans-york-special-election-180828866.html
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Here's the thing... empirical evidence from around the world suggests that in the healthcare feild, government intervention reduces costs.
Absolutely not true. It is, in fact, the MAJOR reason for increased healthcare costs. Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare reform, it is simply the government wielding it's power to make the healthcare and insurance companies fat. The ONLY thing that will reduce the actual costs is to allow for competition. Government regulations only get in the way. I have talked to many doctors and they all agree, it's government interference that drives up costs.

I want to address "death panels" as well real quick because the phrase has been blown out of proportion. What they're referring to is only about what the GOVERNMENT should pay for... how do you think it would work out if the government was paying for everyone's cancer treatment? It would get expensive for the taxpayers, right? Well, since government already does not help with cancer treatment, and private funds are already needed and Obamacare leaves private medical practice in tact - one with cancer would still pay for their treatment as they do now(if they can afford it)... If they cannot afford it, then they presumably die, but they would have without Obamacare too... So Obamacare isn't killing granny either.
So that makes it ok, then. Some healthcare reform. If you really need it, sorry, you die.
If I am a healthy person who rarely gets sick and do not need medical attention, I still have to pay... THAT'S FAIR!!!!
 

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1

Well-Known Member
I don't have anything to do with the vote tomorrow so I can't win any prize. I simply asked a question.
No,,, I think you very well have a good idea of The "Importance",,,Of the "Outcome",,,Your mind is made up already,,,But when you "freedom",,,Really start's to collapse around you,,,There is no one to blame,,,but yourself.
 

Jack Fate

New Member
No,,, I think you very well have a good idea of The "Importance",,,Of the "Outcome",,,Your mind is made up already,,,But when you "freedom",,,Really start's to collapse around you,,,There is no one to blame,,,but yourself.
The vote tomorrow in the 9th District is not about me and what I think. Perhaps you're confusd.
 
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