The end of suffering

New Age United

Well-Known Member
Wow what Jesus says about birth pangs? Really? How bout you re-read what the bible says that Jesus says about birth pangs. Has nothing to do with meditation, it’s a discription of what the earth is going to feel before his second coming, that’s the context my friend. So after reading through your discription of what and how your practicing this I see it’s jewish/catholic mysticism mixed with a little bit of eastern wisdom, quite a hodge podge , but that’s what new age is. This is exactly what Ignatius Loyola (founder of the jesuits/society of Jesus) taught to all the jesuits monks on how to be illuminated. Only part you left out was the calling upon angels and spirits as guides in the transcendental realm. Maybe you haven’t got that far yet.
No need to be so serious, there is nothing the matter here, everything is alright, it will be ok, pain is fleeting and death is nothing to be afraid of, it is very peaceful, like sleep, even the survival of humanity itself is not important, so exactly how important is this conversation??? Yes he also speaks about the pangs you will feel before the second coming, the Christ is within you, the Arch Angel, it is not I but the father in me who does the works, you are the Light, Awareness, the eternal flame, you are the burning bush that is not consumed, you are actually immortal, satan has you all trapped in the illusion of mortality, the illusion of time (past and future) but if you can hold an focus on Eternity(the Present moment) for just a little while you will come back to Paradise(the Earth, the Garden of Eden, Gaia).

The birth pangs before the second coming are the pangs you literally feel before you reach Enlightenment, both physically and mentally.

"It may come to the sinner before it comes to the saint"
The Kingdom of Heaven is not coming with signs to be adored, for behold the kingdom is in the midst of you"
"You will recieve the kingdom like a child or you will not recieve it at all"

Life is not nearly as serious as our minds make it out to be, stop thinking, rejoice,repent, come and dine with me in Paradise.
 

Where’sthecurve

Active Member
Very well said and I agree with everything you're saying except I believe the girl was 12 at least that's what I've read. Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is there's no such thing as good and evil, from the beginning of the Torah says that man and woman were cast out of Paradise when they began to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Muhammad also bought and freed many slaves, how do we know that the girl was not a slave and that the owner wouldn't sell her so the only way he could free her was to marry her, just saying it is a possibility.
So no , you are wrong. All respected scholars say she was 6 years old when he married her and 9 years old when he took her “into” his house. That means sexually involved at 9. Regardless I’ll give you the 12 years. It’s still hideous a grown man in any culture with a girl of that age. I don’t buy the idea that he could have bought her as a slave because he was such an honourable man he had to marry the child to rescue her from someone who did not want to let her go. Think about that what parent of said child would not want their daughter to marry royalty? People used to give their children away so they could have a better life.
 

Where’sthecurve

Active Member
Yes Muhammad was a warrior, what you have to realize is there's no such thing as good and evil, from the beginning of the Torah says that man and woman were cast out of Paradise when they began to eat from the tree of the knowledge of-good and evil.
No such thing as good and evil? Wtf? And you try to use Torah to defend that ridiculous theological statement. THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABOUT GOOD VS EVIL from front to back man. You really should read it before making any conclusions of your own or reapeting someone else’s wrong interpretations about what it says. What does Mohamed being a warrior have to do with the fall and good and evil not existing. My point is Mohamed was just a man. Christ was not, and if you read the bible you would see that.
 

New Age United

Well-Known Member
No such thing as good and evil? Wtf? And you try to use Torah to defend that ridiculous theological statement. THE WHOLE BIBLE IS ABOUT GOOD VS EVIL from front to back man. You really should read it before making any conclusions of your own or reapeting someone else’s wrong interpretations about what it says. What does Mohamed being a warrior have to do with the fall and good and evil not existing. My point is Mohamed was just a man. Christ was not, and if you read the bible you would see that.
Christ was a man, you have fallen for the words of fools, not the words of the prophet Jesus, next time you read the new testament pay only attention to the words of Jesus himself. Good and evil have a relative existence just as things are relatively important, meaning relative to the human experience but they exist only in the mind, like I said the situation is never the cause of suffering but your minds reaction to it causes suffering. You have to break free from your own mind.
 

Where’sthecurve

Active Member
No need to be so serious, so exactly how important is this conversation??? Yes he also speaks about the pangs you will feel before the second coming, the Christ is within you, the Arch Angel, it is not I but the father in me who does the works, you are the Light, Awareness, the eternal flame, you are the burning bush that is not consumed, you are actually immortal,
the Christ is not within you! where did you get that from... I know, new age none sense that you say your not a part of. Didn’t get it from anything Jesus said because He said you must repent and be born again BEFORE you receive the spirit. And you are still carrying you Jehovah witness baggage around with ya say crap like Jesus the arch angel. Like I said before if you read the actual bible You would know that the book of Hebrews says specifically that Christ is NOT an angel, and that the angels are to minister to Him. Common now. When quoting stuff Jesus said it is serious man.
 

New Age United

Well-Known Member
the Christ is not within you! where did you get that from... I know, new age none sense that you say your not a part of. Didn’t get it from anything Jesus said because He said you must repent and be born again BEFORE you receive the spirit. And you are still carrying you Jehovah witness baggage around with ya say crap like Jesus the arch angel. Like I said before if you read the actual bible You would know that the book of Hebrews says specifically that Christ is NOT an angel, and that the angels are to minister to Him. Common now. When quoting stuff Jesus said it is serious man.
No there is nothing serious about what Jesus said or what I am saying, the seriousness is in you alone.
 

Where’sthecurve

Active Member
Christ was a man, you have fallen for the words of fools, not the words of the prophet Jesus, next time you read the new testament pay only attention to the words of Jesus himself. Good and evil have a relative existence just as things are relatively important, meaning relative to the human experience but they exist only in the mind, like I said the situation is never the cause of suffering but your minds reaction to it causes suffering. You have to break free from your own mind.
you don’t need to tell me how to read the bible. We have 7 in this house. calling mark Mathew luke John apostle Paul fools? Wow, not even gonna touch that. Your fucked up idea about good and evil being some problem/reaction I created in my mind that I need to just overlook is nuts. tell that to the next person about to have their head sawed of by some muslim isis nutter. If you want to be spiritual about stuff then do so and I hope your walk brings you to the one and only creator. But be very careful when you use Jesus and say he said something he didn’t say or mean. I won’t judge you , we are all going to be soon.
 

Where’sthecurve

Active Member
No there is nothing serious about what Jesus said or what I am saying, the seriousness is in you alone.
Ok you proved my point you shouldn’t be coaching anyone on biblical wisdom. Your good at the “did God really say” analogies but the serpent did the same thing, and because eve didn’t know God’s word she was deceived. Like many today being deceived because they read every other thing out there except the bible.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks
 

justugh

Well-Known Member
the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks
rule one in life (simplest form to most complex)
adapt or die

pretty good .....the simple fact is the Church is the worst criminal in all of history ...and until the general mass of humans figure this out it is all moot as we are doomed to repeat a cycle (at some point a religion crazy is going to crush the planet under the name of their god ......funny thing all 3 gods of the 3 major ones is the same damn god but no one ever builds on that ) or the newest front runner antibiotic resistant bacteria strain of something ( look at rule one )


but that is not why i started this it .......i offer the idea the good deed it self is the cookie......going with quantum entanglement and chaos theory.....( ex a homeless on street 3 days from death) the good deed a simple ride to a local heating shelter that was to far to walk ...result the person lives due to the simple hey buddy need a lift ......now from there u have entangled yourself to that person life and with the unseen results homeless person made person late to vote resulting in a pass or failure ......going on and on and on
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
rule one in life (simplest form to most complex)
adapt or die

pretty good .....the simple fact is the Church is the worst criminal in all of history ...and until the general mass of humans figure this out it is all moot as we are doomed to repeat a cycle (at some point a religion crazy is going to crush the planet under the name of their god ......funny thing all 3 gods of the 3 major ones is the same damn god but no one ever builds on that ) or the newest front runner antibiotic resistant bacteria strain of something ( look at rule one )


but that is not why i started this it .......i offer the idea the good deed it self is the cookie......going with quantum entanglement and chaos theory.....( ex a homeless on street 3 days from death) the good deed a simple ride to a local heating shelter that was to far to walk ...result the person lives due to the simple hey buddy need a lift ......now from there u have entangled yourself to that person life and with the unseen results homeless person made person late to vote resulting in a pass or failure ......going on and on and on
"life" is an endless web, and each one of us are at an intersection...effected by and effecting everyone
 

justugh

Well-Known Member
"life" is an endless web, and each one of us are at an intersection...effected by and effecting everyone
then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces
 

New Age United

Well-Known Member
then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces
No, it just means that we are all connected, you can still have a positive impact on people caused by unselfish acts, such as a parent has to their child. I don't however believe in free will.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
then that means there is no truly unselfish act and free will is just something ppl say to themself as they are moved by the unseen/thought of forces
not at all...there is a resonance between all things, waves emanate from one point and lap against a million shores...but that doesn't mean that i'm not the one deciding to make a few of those waves, and i decide whether or not to pay any attention to the ones lapping on my shores...as far as unselfish acts, only you can decide that, in the dark of the night, with nothing but your own breathing and the sound of your blood flowing in the ear against the pillow to distract you from your own thoughts...I can sleep, most nights.
 

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology, mashed together to help priests control their parishioners...if it was EVER divinely inspired, men ruined it at the several "councils" they held to edit it to fit their purposes, removing whole books, and editing text that didn't agree with their current policies. the current bible is a far cry from the bible of 2000 years ago...and the bible 2000 years ago was still a tool that a minority used to control a larger populace.
be a good person because that's the right thing to do...not because you win the grand prize jackpot and get to meet Bozo AND Cookie if you do...treat other people well, because that's the way you would like to be treated, not because of some ephemeral reward for being good....the bible is a training tool for dogs...be good and get a treat...
real personal growth comes from doing the right thing, because its the right thing...not from being good at receiving Scooby snacks
This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does
i think that is all that exists, there is no predestination...God, if they exist, does not decide out course for us, we make our own decisions, and are responsible for the consequences, ourselves
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
This is a common fallacy, and there's a defined reason certain people, other than uninformed parrots, want want you to believe this; but rather than citing examples that I'm already aware of, perhaps look into it more deeply yourself and see why I say that ..or not (that pesky "Free Will" thing). btw, I agree to a very large extent with op regarding the comment that Free Will does not exist, at least not as we commonly believe it does
there are several statements there...which one are you referring to as a common fallacy?
 

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
there are several statements there...which one are you referring to as a common fallacy?
Thank you for your interest. Let's take the so-called Noah's flood for example: Almost all ancient civilizations tell of a worldwide catastrophic flood

Now, remember the school kid game of telephone? the short of it is that this one common worldwide event, in this example the flood mythology, while common to almost all ancient civilizations, varies mainly because of cultural perspective

but that doesn't change the fact that all cultures are speaking of the same event,

However Creator God, through the prophets went on to expound and clarify the event in the so-called judeo Christian Bible

whereas other ancient civilizations may only have their handed down (and in many cases only verbally), ancient myth regarding this same worldwide flood event, hence the discrepancies

.. in a way it's kind of like the revisionist history that we commonly see now, only draw out over millennium

Edit: here's a quick example..

 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
"the bible is a collection of previous cultures mythology"
do i need to go to the trouble of providing links that firmly place 90 percent of the events described in the bible in the religious texts of previous religions?...i have to do laundry today? but i'll do it when i have a chance...you won't believe me till i show you....the bible is pieces of other religions texts and stories, mashed together to fit the needs of the "clergy" at the time...

In the Persian scriptures of the Zoroastrians, the Avesta tells the story of how Ormuzd created the world and the first two humans in six days and then rested on the seventh. The names of these two human beings were Adama and Evah. These texts date back as far as the 10th century B.C.

There is also a lot of evidence that the Epic of Gilgamesh, one of the oldest recorded texts in human history, had an influence on the biblical creation story. The Epic of Gilgamesh tells the story of a man, Enkidu, who was created from the earth by a god. He lives amongst the animals in a natural paradise until he is tempted by a woman, Shamhat. He accepts food from this woman and is forced to leave the place where he lives after becoming aware of his own nakedness. Later in the epic, he encounters a snake which steals a plant of immortality from him.


A man is warned of an imminent flood by a god and is instructed to build a large boat in order to survive. The dimensions of the boat are 120 cubits; the building materials are wood, pitch, and reeds; and there are six decks. After the flood, the boat lands on a mountaintop where the man sends out a series of birds to find dry land. He eventually lets all the people and animals free and sacrifices to the god that saved him.
Now although these details sound like they were taken directly from the book of Genesis, you’d find the same information in the story of Utnapishtim, found in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

There are a large number of striking similarities between the book of Proverbs in the bible and the Egyptian Instruction of Amenemope. Though all surviving texts of the Instruction of Amenemope are of a later date, the works are thought to have been composed during the 12th dynasty. There has been much debate on this topic, but modern scholars agree that there is enough compelling evidence to support the originality of the Instruction of Amenemope. Here are a few examples of the parallel verses:
Proverbs 22:17-18: “Incline thy ear, and hear the words of the wise: and apply thy heart to my doctrine. Which shall be beautiful for thee, if thou keep it in thy bowels, and it shall flow in thy lips.”
Amenemope ch1: “Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue.”
Proverbs 22:22: “Do no violence to the poor, because he is poor: and do not oppress the needy in the gate.”
Amenemope ch1: “Beware of robbing the poor, and oppressing the afflicted.”
Proverbs 23:1:
“When thou shalt sit to eat with a prince, consider diligently what is set before thy face.”
Amenemope ch23: “Eat not bread in the presence of a ruler, And lunge not forward with thy mouth before a governor. When thou art replenished with that to which thou has no right, It is only a delight to thy spittle. Look upon the dish that is before thee, And let that (alone) supply thy need.

In the Bible, the Ten Commandments were given to Moses on Mount Sinai, and were written on stone tablets, allegedly by the hand of God himself. This was thought to take place around 1490 B.C. However when one examines chapter 125 of the Egyptian Book of the Dead (around 2600 B.C.), it seems he may have had a little help. The Egyptian Book of the Dead reads like the Ten Commandments written in the Negative Confession. Some examples are:
Book of the Dead: “I have not blasphemed.”
Exodus 20:7: “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.”
Book of the Dead:
“I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.”
Exodus 20:14: “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Book of the Dead: “I have not stolen.”
Exodus 20:15: “Thou shalt not steal.”
There is also some similarity between the story of the Ten Commandments and the Code of Hammurabi, dated around 1772 B.C.

The origin of the Israelite nation is a little vague since the biblical accounts don’t always agree with archaeological evidence. According to the Bible, the Canaanites were a tribe of people who descended from Ham (the son of Noah). They were thought to be a cursed nation that the Israelites destroyed. However, conquests are never that simple, and it is widely accepted that the Canaanite religion had numerous influences on Judaism. Psalms 29 is a hymn that bears so much similarity to Ulgaritic (the language of the Canaanites) poetry that some believe that it was originally an hymn to Baal. Today scholars agree that the Israelites emerged from a Canaanite civilization in the early part of the second millennium B.C.

There is an interesting correlation between the Gathas of Zarathushtra Yasna (the sacred texts of the Zoroastrians) and the chapter of creation and book of Isaiah in the Old Testament. This can be largely attributed to the influence that the Mesopotamians held over the Israelites during the time the Israelites were living in Babylon. Strangely, the book of Yasna asks questions which are answered directly in the book of Isaiah. There are countless other examples of influences from Zoroastrianism, but this one is very compelling. Some examples of these similarities texts are:
Yasna 44.3 :4-5: “who made the routes of the sun and stars? By whom the moon waxes and wanes?”
Isaiah 40:26: “Lift up your eyes on high, and see who hath created these things: who bringeth out their host by number, and calleth them all by their names: by the greatness of his might, and strength, and power, not one of them was missing.”
Yasna 44.4:1-3: “who fixed the earth below and kept the sky above from falling?”
Isaiah 40:12: “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and weighed the heavens with his palm? Who hath poised with three fingers the bulk of the earth, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?”

According to scholars, the Zoroastrians were the first to believe in angels, the idea of Satan, and the ongoing battle between the forces of good and evil. Interestingly, Zoroastrian art portrays the prophet Zarathustra as being surrounded by the same halo of light in which Christian figures are often depicted

The prophet Daniel was the first biblical figure to refer to ideas of resurrection and judgement in Daniel 12:2, and this can be easily attributed to Babylonian influence. The word “paradise” comes directly from the Persian religion of Mithraism. The word “Hell” seems to derive from the Norse word Hel, most certainly a pre-Christian concept. There are countless examples of Hell-like afterlives portrayed in pagan mythology.
In the New Testament, there are four different words used to describe Hell, all of which have been translated into English as “Hell”. They are “Sheol”, which means “place of the dead”; “Hades,” the Greek god of the underworld, “Gehenna,” a kind of garbage dump; and “Tartaro,” which means “to cast” or “throw”.

there are some remarkable parallels between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Buddha, Mithras, and Zarathustra.
Jesus:
“And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.” (Luke 6:31)
Buddha: “Consider others as yourself.” (Dhammapada 10:1)
Jesus: “And to him that striketh thee on the one cheek, offer also the other. And him that taketh away from thee thy cloak, forbid not to take thy coat also.” (Luke 6:29)
Buddha: “If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words.” (Majjhima Nikaya 21:6)

this link goes into great detail...if you have the desire to learn the truth...
https://archive.org/stream/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft_djvu.txt
 
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