The $100k Global Warming Challenge

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So if his opinion of an ice age is coming is "illiterate" then why bash someone over an opinion. You have your off the wall opinions and thoughts why bash some one else for theres. Does the computer you sit in front of make you feel powerful, strong, etc. Your way is not always right and usually wrong as well as many others. I would just like to know why do you bash others for sharing their opinions when you do the same
See below. Because scientifically illiterate opinions don't belong in science.

2000-2010 was the hottest decade on record, that's a fact that isn't up for debate. 2014 was the hottest year on record, again, undeniable scientific fact, yet here you have retards who believe based on faith and deception that the earth hasn't warmed in nearly 2 decades.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member

All opinion. According to the experts, the change in the average temperature of the Earth is significant, not "statistically minor", and well beyond the scope of what nature can accomplish in 135 years
From the horse's mouth


Figure 1a reveals remarkable correspondence of Vostok temperature and global GHG climate forcing. The temperature change appears to usually lead the gas changes by typically several hundred years, as discussed below and indicated in figure 1b. This suggests that warming climate causes a net release of these GHGs by the ocean, soils and biosphere. GHGs are thus a powerful amplifier of climate change, comparable to the surface albedo feedback, as quantified below. The GHGs, because they change almost simultaneously with the climate, are a major ‘cause’ of glacial-to-interglacial climate change, as shown below, even if, as seems likely, they slightly lag the climate change and thus are not the initial instigator of change.


The temperature–GHG lag is imprecise because the time required for snow to pile high enough (approx. 100 m) to seal off air bubbles is typically a few thousand years in central Antarctica. The estimated age difference between ice and its air bubbles is accounted for in the time-scale of figure 1, which refers to the ice age. Despite multiple careful studies, uncertainties in the ice–gas age differences for the Vostok ice core remain of the order of 1 kyr (Bender et al. 2006). Therefore, we can only say with certainty that the temperature and gas changes are nearly synchronous. Data from a different Antarctic (Dome C) ice core with slightly higher snow accumulation rate (Monnin et al. 2001) and an independent analysis based on argon isotopes (Caillon et al. 2003) support temperature leading GHGs by ca 600–800 years. In addition, carbon cycle models yield increases of GHGs in response to warming oceans and receding ice sheets. Ice cores from Maud Land (EPICA 2006), which has very high snow deposition rates, should establish leads and lags accurately, but the present paper has only slight dependence on that result.




So what's the deal? If temperature leads "GHG Forcing", but CO2 provides "positive feedback", why does the temperature go down? By the definition of hoopla in climastrology, that should not be happening.

And how about that correlation? Do you suppose it is statistically "significant"? The fact it was verified by others must mean something. There is a difference between saying something is statistically "minor" versus "significant", and that's where you've been tripped up. Note how they immediately impute a hypothesis without contrary considerations, too.

As I keep harping on, the physics behind this matter is NOT settled , and you certainly will not prove otherwise. If anything, you'll wind up doing something like this, if you explore the topic deep enough:
http://www.nada.kth.se/~cgjoh/atmothermo.pdf

To that end, it seems the more the physics is unwound, the trickier it gets for the "climate scientists" whose livelihoods depend on "modelling" disaster. When are you going to admit the politics have poisoned the well?

All of this hubbub wouldn't be on the radar if Al Gore and his chums weren't trying to capitalize upon carbon-credit schemes, "according to the experts." :mrgreen:
With all of the resources, those minds would have been better put to use in developing electromagnetic propulsion systems. Leave the CO2 to do what it does best; grow bigger crops.

Carbon tax BC.jpg


 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member


From the horse's mouth


Figure 1a reveals remarkable correspondence of Vostok temperature and global GHG climate forcing. The temperature change appears to usually lead the gas changes by typically several hundred years, as discussed below and indicated in figure 1b. This suggests that warming climate causes a net release of these GHGs by the ocean, soils and biosphere. GHGs are thus a powerful amplifier of climate change, comparable to the surface albedo feedback, as quantified below. The GHGs, because they change almost simultaneously with the climate, are a major ‘cause’ of glacial-to-interglacial climate change, as shown below, even if, as seems likely, they slightly lag the climate change and thus are not the initial instigator of change.

The temperature–GHG lag is imprecise because the time required for snow to pile high enough (approx. 100 m) to seal off air bubbles is typically a few thousand years in central Antarctica. The estimated age difference between ice and its air bubbles is accounted for in the time-scale of figure 1, which refers to the ice age. Despite multiple careful studies, uncertainties in the ice–gas age differences for the Vostok ice core remain of the order of 1 kyr (Bender et al. 2006). Therefore, we can only say with certainty that the temperature and gas changes are nearly synchronous. Data from a different Antarctic (Dome C) ice core with slightly higher snow accumulation rate (Monnin et al. 2001) and an independent analysis based on argon isotopes (Caillon et al. 2003) support temperature leading GHGs by ca 600–800 years. In addition, carbon cycle models yield increases of GHGs in response to warming oceans and receding ice sheets. Ice cores from Maud Land (EPICA 2006), which has very high snow deposition rates, should establish leads and lags accurately, but the present paper has only slight dependence on that result.



So what's the deal? If temperature leads "GHG Forcing", but CO2 provides "positive feedback", why does the temperature go down? By the definition of hoopla in climastrology, that should not be happening.

And how about that correlation? Do you suppose it is statistically "significant"? The fact it was verified by others must mean something. There is a difference between saying something is statistically "minor" versus "significant", and that's where you've been tripped up. Note how they immediately impute a hypothesis without contrary considerations, too.

As I keep harping on, the physics behind this matter is NOT settled , and you certainly will not prove otherwise. If anything, you'll wind up doing something like this, if you explore the topic deep enough:
http://www.nada.kth.se/~cgjoh/atmothermo.pdf

To that end, it seems the more the physics is unwound, the trickier it gets for the "climate scientists" whose livelihoods depend on "modelling" disaster. When are you going to admit the politics have poisoned the well?

All of this hubbub wouldn't be on the radar if Al Gore and his chums weren't trying to capitalize upon carbon-credit schemes, "according to the experts." :mrgreen:

With all of the resources, those minds would have been better put to use in developing electromagnetic propulsion systems. Leave the CO2 to do what it does best; grow bigger crops.

View attachment 3555186
You're jumping to the conclusion you want when this single paper you cited doesn't

It says it appears temps lead GHG's. Meanwhile deniers dismiss the GHG aspect, exactly as you have, by implying the only reason scientists care about carbon emissions is to steal taxpayers money <-- that's the shit that poisons the well

By holding this position, you're also implying the scientific consensus is is wrong or corrupt or both without ever providing any evidence except "Al Gore made some money"...

You understand if I don't find your position on ACC convincing...
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Climate change is the new religion. No government gives a flying fuck about global warming. The only thing they care about is using it as a tool to grab more power and tax the fuck out us.
That must be why dozens of different governments are developing renewable energy source and cutting GHG emissions, huh?

Do you have a shred of evidence to back any of your nonsense up that doesn't come from 'infowars.com' or 'wattsupwiththat.com'?
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
I ask those who would deny that human activity is the main cause of climate change a very simple question, yet they can't answer it;

'How could the collective activity of SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE, all burning everything from camel dung to diesel fuel on a daily basis, NOT affect the climate?'

Crickets.
Well, New York was supposed to be underwater several years ago, the ice caps all gone, and dozens of other calamities. None of which has happened. The only thing to have changed, it seems, is GLOBAL WARMING has changed to CLIMATE CHANGE. Because there hasn't been the results that were predicted by the doomsday proponents. All those "SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE" exhale co2 all day long. Let's face it. The only solution is to execute 85% of all living things. The climate change zealots should be volunteering to be first if they truly believe their rhetoric.
 

The_Herban_Legend

Well-Known Member
That must be why dozens of different governments are developing renewable energy source and cutting GHG emissions, huh?

Do you have a shred of evidence to back any of your nonsense up that doesn't come from 'infowars.com' or 'wattsupwiththat.com'?
Governments have been developing green technology for how long now? Yet still no cost efficient alternative to fossil fuels. All the lies our government has told us and you believe this one? Remind me again how the numerous ice ages have expanded and contracted prior to the discovery of fossil fuels?
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
That must be why dozens of different governments are developing renewable energy source and cutting GHG emissions, huh?

Do you have a shred of evidence to back any of your nonsense up that doesn't come from 'infowars.com' or 'wattsupwiththat.com'?
Government reacts to the demands of its populace if it wants to stay in power. Do you have any predictions based on the theory that have actually occurred?
 

Siino Gardens

Well-Known Member
If there was impending doom for real you would see the government start to shut shit down much faster than it is right now. Seriously do you think if anyone of them were really scared that something bad was going to happen are going to just sit there and wait for all the other countries to agree?

It doesn't make sense why it is such a big agenda yet the reality is they are dragging ass on it. Watch them start to up our taxes again and then start cutting our shit down slowly but surely.

It is just my interpretation of what is going on but it doesn't take alex jones to tell you that something is really fuckin fishy with global warming.
 

The_Herban_Legend

Well-Known Member
That must be why dozens of different governments are developing renewable energy source and cutting GHG emissions, huh?

Do you have a shred of evidence to back any of your nonsense up that doesn't come from 'infowars.com' or 'wattsupwiththat.com'?
One more point I would like to make. The government/s gains more revenue taxing fossil fuels than it ever could with green technology. Do yourself a favor and take a hard look at all angles. This is a power grab that has not ever been seen before at this level.
 

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
I ask those who would deny that human activity is the main cause of climate change a very simple question, yet they can't answer it;

'How could the collective activity of SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE, all burning everything from camel dung to diesel fuel on a daily basis, NOT affect the climate?'

Crickets.
Well if you break it down to just my contribution. Yes I drive a vehicle that burns gasoline everyday. Yes I use electricity at home everyday but, I'll bet kWh hours compared to my portion used at work, I would say more kwh's are used at work. I keep my house cool in the winter and warmer in the summer. Yet, I still contribute albeit most likely less than many others who are more gluttonous than I. And I'm sure I contribute more than say many who aren't fortunate enough to enjoy my meager but, pleasant in a humble way, lifestyle.

I dunno man. Need to figure this out and do something without taxing poor people along the way with higher priced energy products like fuel and electric.

I'm not sure the prize is winnable assuming I understand the objective is disproving global warming. Maybe I should have looked at this thread before I further contributed to global warming in my last smoke sesh. Oh yeah, my body heat. But, less people is not an option.

Now I'm just confused. Peace and love. o_O
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The earth hasnt gotten any warmer in the last 18 years
turn off fox news and check out what NASA has to say.

just got done with hottest decade on record. second hottest was the one before. last year was the hottest on record.

how is it getting hotter than ever if it is not getting any hotter?

can fox news expain that for you somehow?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Watch them start to up our taxes again
The only thing they care about is using it as a tool to grab more power and tax the fuck out us.
All of this hubbub wouldn't be on the radar if Al Gore and his chums weren't trying to capitalize upon carbon-credit schemes
i just got tax credits and rebates for installing 96% efficiency furnace and 4 new andersen windows.

so why am i making money off this whole global warming thing?



The only solution is to execute 85% of all living things.
killing people is your solution to everything red.

may your families RIP.
 

heckler73

Well-Known Member
i just got tax credits and rebates for installing 96% efficiency furnace and 4 new andersen windows.

so why am i making money off this whole global warming thing?
.

Because you probably paid 4x that amount through your consumption. Do you believe the corporate level doesn't pass the "savings" on to you? o_O
I take it you don't own a vehicle?

You're jumping to the conclusion you want when this single paper you cited doesn't

It says it appears temps lead GHG's. Meanwhile deniers dismiss the GHG aspect, exactly as you have, by implying the only reason scientists care about carbon emissions is to steal taxpayers money <-- that's the shit that poisons the well


Scientists don't need to steal taxpayers money...they get it from the tap. It's the politicos and apparatchiks I get concerned with since they have their hands on the spigots. What is their motive?

By holding this position, you're also implying the scientific consensus is is wrong or corrupt or both without ever providing any evidence except "Al Gore made some money"...
What consensus? :lol: Don't give me that 97% figure, please. Were you not around when we examined those claims?

[quote]You understand if I don't find your position on ACC convincing...
[/QUOTE]



So statistics isn't your forte is what you're saying? Yet your belief is based on them. That's okay, I still use a reference to make sure I'm using the right equations in error analysis, sometimes.
I am not jumping to conclusions, either. I am reading the science and translating it for the benefit of your perception of my position and why I think the way I do.
Do you understand the significance of the statement, "Temps lead GHG Forcing"? That means temperature comes first, then GHGs. With a 1kyr std dev, it does leave room for error, but when others verify the results, one should stop and ask, "what is going on here?" Especially when it contradicts a hypothesis. What they did was quickly smother it with "and so that releases more GHGs, yadda yadda". The cause (or lack thereof) which their own data points out is brushed aside into the land of anomaly!
This is why it is important to go beyond the headlines, and beyond the abstracts. It's important to dig at the papers (and their sources) to find these things buried within. Or else the main product is Yellow Press.

The result? Either you cast a dubious eye at the ice cores, or you accept your AGW hypothesis is falsified as it stands and needs a serious update in lieu of a better explanation.
Keep in mind, 4 of the scientists on that paper are from NASA. These aren't IPCC economists or grad students.

Meanwhile,

 

m4s73r

Well-Known Member
i just got tax credits and rebates for installing 96% efficiency furnace and 4 new andersen windows.

so why am i making money off this whole global warming thing?





killing people is your solution to everything red.

may your families RIP.
Hey so did I. Installed new heater and Ac unit. house already has great windows. Also installed solar panels. Tax rebates. I ride an electric recumbent trike to commute back and forth to work. Love that thing. All electric. 70 mile range @25mph. top speed of 40 mph. (range goes down to 15 miles at that speed).
 

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
See below. Because scientifically illiterate opinions don't belong in science.

2000-2010 was the hottest decade on record, that's a fact that isn't up for debate. 2014 was the hottest year on record, again, undeniable scientific fact, yet here you have retards who believe based on faith and deception that the earth hasn't warmed in nearly 2 decades.
Actually all of the temperature records are up for debate and should be debated as part of a healthy scientific process. There is no global thermometer, so any global temp records are going to go through a man made amalgamation process to come up with a proxy.

Those that do not share their data sets and explain how they normalized the data should be put under additional scrutiny as this goes against the scientific process. This seems like common sense to me.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
don't need to steal taxpayers money...they get it from the tap. It's the politicos and apparatchiks I get concerned with since they have their hands on the spigots. What is their motive?
You're implying climate scientists are stealing taxpayers money

"What is their motive?" - Protection of the environment

What's the motive of the elected officials who vote against climate change legislation that you say you're "concerned with"?

Let's investigate...

"Senators Who Rejected Human-Caused Climate Change Received 7 Times as Much Money from Oil and Gas Interests

December 2, 2015 -- On January 21, 2015, the Senate voted on a number of amendments to S. 1, the Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act. While construction of the Keystone XL pipeline was rejected last month, several amendments to S. 1 address opinions about climate change more generally. One such amendment, S. Amdt. 58, expresses the sense of Congress that “human activity significantly contributes to climate change.” The amendment, which required a two-thirds majority to pass, failed by a vote of 50-49.

Senators voting ‘NO’ on the amendment received, on average, 7.1 times as much money ($259,314) from oil and gas interests compared to those voting ‘YES’ ($36,759) between April 1, 2009 and March 31, 2015.

Twelve senators received more than $300,000 from oil and gas interests between April 1, 2009 and March 31, 2015. All voted 'NO' on the amendment."



http://maplight.org/content/senators-who-rejected-human-caused-climate-change-received-7-times-as-much-money-from-oil-an

"… 68 percent of the Republican leadership in both House and Senate deny human-caused climate change. On the committee level, 13 out of 21 Republican members of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, or 62 percent, reject the science behind human-caused global warming, joined by 67 percent, or 21 out of 31 Republican members, of the House Energy and Commerce Committee … In addition to Inhofe, 10 out of 11, or 91 percent, of Republicans on EPW have said climate change is not happening or that humans do not cause it."


http://grist.org/politics/72-percent-of-gop-senators-deny-climate-change/
What consensus?
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
I am not jumping to conclusions, either...

...Do you understand the significance of the statement, "Temps lead GHG Forcing"? That means temperature comes first,
then GHGs.
Yeah, you are. That's ^^^ you jumping to conclusions. I quoted the article you cited that said "it appears", which is one single paper that would seem to directly contradict the scientific consensus, which is made up of thousands of peer reviewed papers

The picture appears to be very clear; the science is sound and political interests are clouding all reason from "skeptics". Have you looked into the financial incentives these elected officials have received? Does it appear to you to be a legitimate inquiry into the science of climate change or rather, does it appear to you to look like a group of sheister fucks in government have been bought off by the fossil fuel industry?
Actually all of the temperature records are up for debate and should be debated as part of a healthy scientific process.
Yeah, I would agree with that, but claiming "It hasn't warmed in 18 years." isn't a debate. Objective, scientifically verifiable facts are not up for debate. 2014 was the hottest year and 2000-2010 was the hottest decade we have on record. If it hasn't warmed in 18 years, how could that be possible?;

https://www.nasa.gov/press/2015/january/nasa-determines-2014-warmest-year-in-modern-record
 
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