T-5 or MH?
- Thread starter knitz01
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hyroot
Well-Known Member
honestly per watt and sq ft i pulled the same but the quality of t5 far surpassed the hps ones. the buds were the same size . the t5 is less tha half the wattage. if i matched watt for watt the t5 would blow away the 1000w. those were not small buds, the smallest one dried weighed 2 g. the biggest weighed 8 g
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I use 3 korrallen zucht fiji purple, 3 uvl redsun, 2 wave point coral waves. i did recently take out an ati aquablue special and replace with a coral wave because i wanted more infrared for density.
im going to swap out one redsun for a fiji. the fijis absorb by chlorophyll A and the redsun absorb by chlorophyl b.
so i guess 2 uvl redsun, 4 korrallen zucht fiji purple and 2 wave point coral waves.
www.aquariumspecialty.com if you spend 175 they do free shipping.
for veg you can just go to petco and get 2 coralife 6700k and the rest coralife actinic. thats what i have in my veg. its much cheaper than the other bulbs
for veg you want 60/40 blue/red. blue makes it stretch and red makes it stay short and the opposite in flower
for flower you want 60/40 red/blue
Undercover Cop
Active Member
oh wow, I was gonna jump on this one if Hyroot wasnt around to catch it.
^^^^ obviously didnt check Hyroots grow logs or profile before posting...
SimonD
Well-Known Member
Not per watt, per square foot. You claimed that you pulled the same under 1K as you did under T5s. I find that to be, well, astonishing. Really. There can be a reasonable explanation for it, if you were using a magnetic 1K ballast. Other than that, all things being equal, I can't see how such a thing is even possible in practice. FWIW, to give a point of reference using myself as an example, I pull an average of ~3.25oz dry/cured Grade-A bud for every single square foot of my room under 1Ks.
I run 600s, as well. They pull less - ~2.5ft2 dry/cured on average. Here are some examples:
Simon
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Not per watt, per square foot. You claimed that you pulled the same under 1K as you did under T5s. I find that to be, well, astonishing. Really. There can be a reasonable explanation for it, if you were using a magnetic 1K ballast. Other than that, all things being equal, I can't see how such a thing is even possible in practice. FWIW, to give a point of reference using myself as an example, I pull an average of ~3.25oz dry/cured Grade-A bud for every single square foot of my room under 1Ks.
I run 600s, as well. They pull less - ~2.5ft2 dry/cured on average. Here are some examples:
Simon
i use all quantum for hid and t5. but you got some very beautiful girls though
SimonD
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the compliment. I still cannot understand how you managed to pull the same under both lights, especially with a digital ballast.
Over how many square feet?
Simon
Undercover Cop
Active Member
I have leaves grow onto my tubes pretty often, and they dont even burn they just light bleach the leaf surface that was touching but the leaf will usually live on. They can put a white stripe across an entire fan leaf but the tips will stay green and still thrive. equivalent wattage of HID light can fry a top in minutes if not checked.
SimonD
Well-Known Member
That's less than an ounce per square foot. Not bad for T5s, but hardly impressive for someone who wants to harvest bud. One can only assume that you pulled the same under 1Ks, given the comparison you made earlier. I probably don't have to tell you how poor that is. I'm not trying to be rude; just hoping to put things in perspective. It's great to sit around philosophizing about the right spectrum, PAR and whatever else we don't fully understand, debating in a vacuum. However, cultivation is an applied pursuit. The results speak for themselves.
For example, I recently tested a pair of Digilux 600MHs. They measured very well, had a great spectrum, they came highly recommend...yet...they were responsible for the absolute slowest growth I've ever seen in my garden, aside from T5s and smaller MHs. That's the bottom line.
Why in the world would you want the branches to grow into the HID lamps?
Simon
Yo, if you live somewhere power costs alot, def get T5 lighting man. MH will fucking kill your power bill. I have a bunch of bathroom light strips tied together. I add 1 23w bulb at a time when the plants need it to save power. I start with like 46w. Then can move up to 400w in cfls if I really need to. Plants seem to stretch when vegged under MH also. CFL will keep the plant denser, and growing slower so your plants wont get too big too fast. Your plants really dont need to be vegged that big before the next round. AND they are low heat. T5 is basically the same boat. I like CFLs because you can put 1 in at a time(i just unscrew them a little till they turn off). You can get good deals on fixtures too. Basically, get a thin cheap piece of wood. Buy like 6 bathroom strips. http://www.lighting-fixtures-ceiling-fans.com/store/PPF/parameters/4129_38/more_info.asp and some discount 23w CFL's.If you look arround you will find a good deal. Random stores always seem to have sales on these things. I was in a gas station that was selling them 2 for 99c(they were severely overstocked). LOL that means 50 cents for a 23 watt grow bulb. Im sure you can at least find a place that sells them for about $1.50.
Undercover Cop
Active Member
If you go the PAR specific aquarium bulb, 10-25$ea for 48". WavePoint bulbs are pretty good for around 10ea, petmountain.com has em cheap w free shipping over $50. And of course t8's will work, and have for years, T12's also. Its just a matter of the most efficient setup possible. For the same wattage in T5's you're getting a more intense beam and more overall output (that is more effectively directed downward by reflectors)
Im all for T5's but will admit that HPS can blow T5 away in overall yield if you can perfectly control the environment and keep the HID heat down, its not possible for everyone (Im in the desert and my AC kicked on today, in the summer my AC runs almost constantly and cant even get below 80deg inside the house, my flowering room will be close to 90!) HPS, even lower wattage bulbs are going to be impossible in the summer for me, even w my cool tube and enough ventilation to exchange all the air in my flowering box (126ft sq) every 20seconds. The bulbs that come with your 12 bulb will be ok... but save up and upgrade as you learn more, you'll see the difference guaranteed. I have the same radiion fixture, only I have two 4bulb fixtures and an 8bulb. Im sure the 12 bulb will get a little warm, but nothing like a 600wHID. and with a 12 bulb T5 you'll have the output equivalent of prob close to 30 T8's
hyroot
Well-Known Member
that batch they were all 1.5 ft to 2.5 ft. with most of them being shorter. i didn't cut off any lower growth because i was experimenting with light. that was a bad idea. also i tried using dr earth soil which is horrible. I had all kinds of deficiencies all through veg and the first 2 weeks of flower. mag def is the worst. There is a mag molecule in chlorophyll so magnesium is responcible for promoting chlorophyll and tell the plant where to grow this node, that leaf and that bud, etc.... on top of that, that soil attracts gnats like no other. i battled them for over a month. i don't think i cut enough perlite in it. half that batch was a strain that was a horrible yielder but very good quality. i do mostly indicas which don't yield much anyway.
my next batch has been very healthy, i even fimmed and super cropped and trained. i have half as many plants taking up more space and i expect to get more when they are done.
i was able to fit many more under my 1000. that covered a 6x7. i got much much more over all. but per watt and per sq ft i pulled the same.
actually my t5 covered 2.5 x 4 which is 10 sq ft. i pulled almost 12 oz under that t5. thats pretty damn good
Undercover Cop
Active Member
lol, uh not many people. for obvious reasons. does it happen occasionally, yes. If you're trying to maintain the perfect balance of being close enough to get the most photonic energy, but far enough not to burn, you've only got X amout of space to play with. If you have one plant that gets away from you and takes off more than others, or shit happens and you gotta leave em alone for a day or two... is that a problem for a professional grower who knows everything about the strains they're growing and has CO2 and the perfect environment, probably not as much as the average joe who has come home after a double shift to a top that has gotten a bit cooked...
not a big problem if using T5's... sure if a growth tip sits right on a T5 bulb, those tiny developing leaves would be stunted, but it would just split like it was topped, the T5 wont dry it out down to the stem and stress the whole plant like an HID would.
SimonD
Well-Known Member
So, the small lights are a substitute for grower competence? LOL!
I come here, read the threads and mostly just grin. I really wish you guys would spend a little more time growing and testing things for yourselves, and less time debating concepts few truly comprehend. You'd get so much more bud out of the process. Best of luck to everyone and Happy New Year!
Simon
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Have no idea what was meant by that. T5 users are incompetent? Because Im tired of battling the cons associated with an HID, Ive researched and found a method that re-creates the exact light necessary by plants throughout their developing life much better than even horticultural HPS/MH bulbs can. Take equivalent wattages of HIDvsT5, you will get very comparable results, the cons of T5 being lack of penetration, so you have to keep the bulbs closer which isnt much of a problem like I said earlier. Cons of HID being the heat output needs to be negated by keeping the bulb a certain distance AWAY from the plants, thus losing intensity. If you live in Alaska then the Heat may not be an issue, I live in the hottest fucking hellhole in the country and it is an issue, so I found a suitable replacement... again Im confused how you're implying that "small lights are a substitute for grower competence" or how you could take that from my post.
You can be a professional gardener with years of experience that is relegated to a stealth closet grow for whatever reason, who cant get ventilation enough for a cool tube and 1kHPS. does that make you incompetent, NO. it just means you have to deal with what you can.
I was pointing out a pro vs con, just happened to have been a con for your HPS, do T5's have cons, yes. Its a balancing act for each situation.
dont give me rep for a post then argue against it, dont patronise. contribute
Your ignorance of science should not cause you to become so defensive of your method of growing, it should cause you to go out and read up on PAR/PUR and the University studies done... same principles behind LED. Read up on Coral growth lighting, not exactly the same but the science applies and is well documented on the Reef forums.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Actually the aquarium bulbs penetrate more. They have higher spectrum peaks in the right places having more energy. so where the spectrum peaks. Thats its intensity. Hid's have a single point of light where the t5 is spread across 4ft. like I said before if you match watt for watt it wouldnt even be a comparison. The t5 would surpass hid. With these bulbs even led cant compete. They have to low blues and no gree, orange, and yellow. When the right amount of green and yellow are present the chlorophyll will absorb much more photons. Penetration is irrelevant if you dont have the spikes at the right nanometers. What we see with our eye. Plants barely absorb at a very narrow bandwith.We see the yellow and greens. Plants see sort of speak th blues, violets , reds and ambers that we dont. Hid mostly put out yellow and greens. Very little red, blue and infrared and no uv......
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