drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
Also, either cut your nutes in half going forward, or alternate water/nutes.
Sudden droop helpppppp
- Thread starter Sumby
- Start date
Sumby
Active Member
What’s your advice ? I need as much as I can get
Final2x
Member
Im confused by your statements.
Do you think it's nitrogen toxicity, or not? Is flushing a good or bad idea? Which advice is awful?
Sumby
Active Member
That is my next plan
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing not many of us are plant scientists and learn from reading.
Marijuana leaves that are nitrogen toxic often get "The Claw" or talon-like leaves that are bent at the ends. They also do an odd curving (or cupping) that is often mistaken for overwatering, but is unique to nitrogen toxicity.
From Grow Weed Easy
Why don't you help the OP out if you disagree?
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
Me too. Lay some knowledge on us. Most of us are here to learn.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Nitrogen toxicity looks nothing like "overwatered". With nitrogen toxicity you will have shiny leaves that are sharply clawed at leaf tips on new growth. I see maybe one clawed blade on one leaf, which means nothing. All blades on new growth will claw and those leaves are not shiny.
I put "overwatered" in quotes because that is also not a real problem, but a symptom of having soil that is inadequate for aeration. The "overwatered" look is a gently curved leaf structure across the whole length of the blade. It is actually an oxygen starved root zone from ether lack of oxygen or a root disease like root rot that prevents oxygen uptake.
MJ needs a dry cycle? Explain hydroponics to me. That is just a BS statement. I can water every day, and often do, and never get the "overwatered" look. With a properly mixed soil, you deliver oxygen to the root zone every time you water. The water pushes out old air and pulls in new air behind the water.
So what is wrong? I could not say for sure. I would begin by putting a water probe into the root ball to see if it shows up as wet or dry. Just because you get run off does not mean that you have evenly wet soil, and if the core has dried out too much the water you put down will hydroscopically run off the dry soil and not wet it. So I would check this first.
I see some twisting in the new growth, this can be pests like broadmites, or I believe there are some nutrient issues that can also cause this. I'd have to do some googling to refresh my memory on the specific nutrient issues that cause this (so google 'twisted new growth'). The challenge in diagnosing this will be to determine if is lockout from nutrient antagonism or an actual deficiency. So it is important to know the feeding history (ppm, NPK, ph, frequency) to really figure it out.
Good luck, if it turns out your soil is not aerated enough, flushing will only make it worse.
Sumby
Active Member
I just feed 2ml/l of Biobizz grow per watering usually. This has never been a problem for the last month of growing. It’s just started now so I’m scratching my head but thanks for the advice
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. Don't agree with it all but there are some good points in here.
Some of us just plop seeds in dirt, throw up a tent and a light and wing it.
Not everyone has instruments and probes. Sometimes you gotta just "feel" it.
Maybe toxicity is too strong. Maybe it's more like overdose.
Either way, thanks again for taking the time to put some hypos out there instead of just railing on other's opinions.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Exactly, tossing seeds in some dirt and just winging it is called "amateur hour". I own every tool for measuring just about everything, and I never use them. Because once you get it all figured out there is no need for measuring. Until then, measure and record what you are doing. Your intuition will not get you to A grade buds.
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
If you've had a garden for 30 years like I have, intuition is as good a tool as one you can buy in a store. Maybe better than some.
And we've all been amateurs at one point or another. Inside, or out.
But you are right, there is no substitute for experience.
Back to the original request from Sumby.
The really dark green leaves and the downwards cupping is the plant telling us it doesn't like something.
It's a relatively new condition, he says things were chugging along until about 2 weeks ago.
Not really feeding what I would consider too much, Not seeing any burnt tips. No yellowing. No chlorosis.
Some twisting on the new growth.
Lights? Maybe those corn lights are too intense to be 5 inches away. In his last pic there were a couple of fans praying at lights on. The previous pic there were none, could be because the lights were on longer.
Soil? Could be hot. Could have pockets as you say.
Nutes? No harm cutting back with the color of those leaves. That's why I would flush, pull back on the nutes, and raise the lights a little.
I think it's good advice for a new grower. YMMV.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Flushing is about the dumbest thing you can do to a plant that is having minor issues, it is very stressful to the plant and any bio-activity in the soil. Reducing nute load a little and raising lights are perfectly fine things to try.
Final2x
Member
I'm not on here to argue. I'm just giving my opinion.
Hydroponic growing is done in different mediums. I know little of hydroponic mediums; this is a soil grow.
I always let my plants dry out before re-watering with good results. When I say dry out, I mean half an inch of dryish soil on the top of my container. I think this is pretty common practice.
As for flushing, this "flush" would just be a be a basic watering with clean nute free water. I don't really see any harm in that.
Hydroponic growing is done in different mediums. I know little of hydroponic mediums; this is a soil grow.
I always let my plants dry out before re-watering with good results. When I say dry out, I mean half an inch of dryish soil on the top of my container. I think this is pretty common practice.
As for flushing, this "flush" would just be a be a basic watering with clean nute free water. I don't really see any harm in that.
Your advice is essentially the same as others that replied.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
The working definition of flush on RIU is 3X pot volume of water put through the soil.
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
Flushing nute and salt buildup out of the soil has never stressed any of my plants.
These guys were flushed twice so far, last time 3 days ago:
I know, I know ... I'm just a small grower in a puny 2X4 tent under 3 100W LEDs.
But I figure if it works for me ... why not share?
THIS
The leaves have a lot of hang too. Which isn't claw.
Roots look wet, and are gasping for a little aeration.
I'd argue, there definitely is a wet and dry cycle with hydro as well. Like you said. Unless running pure hydro like dwc.
Systems like "flood and drain" imo are wet and dry. Just the name says so.
Same as drain to waste. Hell, we could use 100% perlite as our medium. Perlite is so inert it dries in no time. We would be feeding 6 times a day, but only because it dries so fast.
That's why I like 100% coir. When the plants are large, they only needs 1-2 feeds per day.
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Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Your plants are beautiful, congrats! You’re putting three times the pot size of water through them? Or just watering until you get some run off?
drsaltzman
Well-Known Member
Hell no. That's overkill.
I run the same amount of water as the pot size. That's all you need.
And only if I'm using a synthetic nute like I am currently.
My organic grows never need a flush.
OP.
I read your post, and viewed your pictures again.
Your plants overall, look really nice and green. Healthy overall. Just the droop, and the monged, new growth.
Droopy, with no burn or deficiency signs, to me says oxygen + root zone.
They look like large pots. How large are they?
If you swear you're watering properly. Maybe your roots are cold?????
The led wouldn't be warming the floor space.
Do you know your root zone temperature? Do you have a thermometer to check?
How cold is it getting during the night, especially?
If I remember correctly. You stated in your post, they were a lot worse the next morning. Cold, damp roots will do what you see. For sure.
Any black leaf edges? Probably the bottom fans, if there are.
I read your post, and viewed your pictures again.
Your plants overall, look really nice and green. Healthy overall. Just the droop, and the monged, new growth.
Droopy, with no burn or deficiency signs, to me says oxygen + root zone.
They look like large pots. How large are they?
If you swear you're watering properly. Maybe your roots are cold?????
The led wouldn't be warming the floor space.
Do you know your root zone temperature? Do you have a thermometer to check?
How cold is it getting during the night, especially?
If I remember correctly. You stated in your post, they were a lot worse the next morning. Cold, damp roots will do what you see. For sure.
Any black leaf edges? Probably the bottom fans, if there are.