SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

Tstat

Well-Known Member
So, I got 4x Earthboxes delivered to my door yesterday.
I’m still debating on trying one Earthbox and one Growbox to see which one I like better, or buying the 10 pack of Growboxes at a discount. All things equal, I don’t care much about the bigger res, as someone is always here. I probably will use 6 inside under cobs and 4 outside on my deck (veggies and mj).
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I’m still debating on trying one Earthbox and one Growbox to see which one I like better, or buying the 10 pack of Growboxes at a discount. All things equal, I don’t care much about the bigger res, as someone is always here. I probably will use 6 inside under cobs and 4 outside on my deck (veggies and mj).
I really got the Earthbox to steal ideas for a DIY. The screen that seperates the rez from the soil has holes much bigger than I thought that it would. I probably could have just went to a store and looked at them, but I decided to try the 1st run the way that Alan Adkisson(Grokashi) suggested. The only thing that I am doing different is the Dolomite lime, I would rather use azomite and greensand. Plus, that fert pack that comes with the Earthbox has bone meal. I'm staying away from P inputs, if you look at my soil test from compost(above) it is apparent that I will never need to add P.

Still, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the two brands. My friend pointed out that Wal-Mart carries the off brand earthbox.
 

Tim Fox

Well-Known Member
I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.

It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping :)
I was thinking of taking some side by side pics of the earthbox and grow box and show you the pluses and minus of each
 

Tim Fox

Well-Known Member
I really got the Earthbox to steal ideas for a DIY. The screen that seperates the rez from the soil has holes much bigger than I thought that it would. I probably could have just went to a store and looked at them, but I decided to try the 1st run the way that Alan Adkisson(Grokashi) suggested. The only thing that I am doing different is the Dolomite lime, I would rather use azomite and greensand. Plus, that fert pack that comes with the Earthbox has bone meal. I'm staying away from P inputs, if you look at my soil test from compost(above) it is apparent that I will never need to add P.

Still, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the two brands. My friend pointed out that Wal-Mart carries the off brand earthbox.
Some pretty big difference I'll take pics later today
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Yes , the earthbox holds exactly 1 bag of soil product, 2 cubic feet, or around 17 gallons, Chose some type of living soil, I know in the octopots they ad nutes right to the res, I am going run Water only the whole ride in my earthbox,,, my last grow was water only the whole ride in 3 gallon containers with FFOF
I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.
 
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meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not already had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.
SIPs a fad from about 30 years ago hahahaha...I love the inntainers I had posted earlier in the thread for DIY.. Super easy and proven already by many, I have my soil recipe up somewhere earlier in this thread also. I personally am not all about soil tests.. I am trying to build an organic living soil worms and all that and use the organic matter breaking down to be available for the plants as opposed to saying there is this deficiency so add this hard core additive and then get things out of whack. I do think that organics will usually yield less since you are not using all the artificial boosters and such that the nutes guys do. BUT the quality of your smoke imo is MUCH MUCH better. I think you are on the right path with building your microbial and fungal web more, this will take all the available organic material and break it down into the usable materials for the plants! I would just keep up with that if I was you and I bet you will see your plants love it! One thing I also have gleaned from some of the organic forums on here is the gypsum is GREAT for your plants also! gives you that little bit of plant safe sulfur micro nute which really helps with terp production.
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
Man, I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but it just hasn't happened yet. The last soil test that I shown is my recent test. While I was waiting to get the test results back, my plants were suffering and started showing spots. That is common in Mn def. However, as soon as I added Mn, Zn, and Fe sulfate the plants started to grow again.

What I am saying is that I am by no means an expert, just a guy that is on a search for information. I still have more failure than success. I say this but everyone in Okla says that my smoke is way better than dispensary, but nobody wants to listen when I talk organic. The only thing that I am lacking is yield, I'm only getting 1/2 of what I should be. It's been for different reasons too, but I think that is because I kept switching my method. I think that I will just stick with my high P compost and learn how to just deal with it!!! It keeps locking out micronutrients.
I too am not an expert, I defer to and learn from those who are though. I'm always on a learning quest to better my growing and myself as a person. I enjoy learning with other like minded folks as yourself and sharing the results. I love to spread the knowledge that i and others have accumulated for the betterment of us all. I've had a few of my questions put experts and professors on a learning quest. lol. We've all got stuff to learn and improve on. Lol. Long as your learning something from each failure it's really not a failure then now is it? Lol. I've killed and abused my share of plants learning to grow some dank, has turned me into a better grower. Have you tried lessening the P inputs to the compost and adding more Mn inputs? I'm sure you have, just verifying. When my compost/Soil mix was too high in K, I actually added more N, P, Ca, etc inputs to make it all high as fuck like the K was. Basically a double or triple strength of everything ratio/mixture then I cut it in half, doubling the total amount of soil using unammended coco30%/peat70% blend. Leaving me with a balanced not hot or toxic soil. Have you tried a route like that yet?
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
I used 0-12-0 bird poop( you would sub this for something like Epsoma 0-0-60 potash or other high K non P having input), 16-0-0 Plant protein meal, gypsum, greensand, azomite, sulfur, lime, And so on, amounts of each input based on soil tests, as well as a varied mixture of fast and slow available inputs. I made it hot as fuck. Lol, then doubled it with plain base material making for some happy plants.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I have my soil recipe up somewhere earlier in this thread also. I personally am not all about soil tests.. I am trying to build an organic living soil worms and all that and use the organic matter breaking down to be available for the plants as opposed to saying there is this deficiency so add this hard core additive and then get things out of whack.
I'm using compost, but I was still having deficiency problems. I think that my phosphorus levels were so high that they were causing micronutrient deficiencies.

I'm not saying that soil tests are for everyone, but I got tired of guessing at what was going wrong. Too much of one thing will lock out another. The common issue with my compost was micronutrients. Now that I have it figured out, I should be able to fix the problem and roll with it. My solution; I think that I need to compost comfrey, borage, and nettle. I see that Malibu Compost already has it added. I guess that I was just using the soil test to point me in the right direction. For me, a $35 test is worth it. I can buy them on Amazon Prime.

I didn't understand how important micronutrients were until I started looking at High Brix gardening. Also, how potassium and nitrogen affects the brix levels.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I've had a few of my questions put experts and professors on a learning quest. lol.
I still have one of those questions that I still have not got a good answer to. I read and listen to podcasts and people like Jeff Lowenfels will tell you that high phosphorus and nitrogen will keep your mycos from growing because your plant is not sending root exudes to signal to fungi. Anyways, everyone preaches compost but my compost is always very excessive in phosphorus. I'm at a loss and don't know what to think of it anymore. I started running peat/perlite without compost and I was having a whole different set of problems. I was able to get the N down to normal levels, but I'm always going to have high P with my compost. However, I did start a worm bin that is mostly leaf mold and much less rabbit manure than I used in the past. I see that it is common for manure compost to be high in P.
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.
There's some good stuff going on with sips over in chuckers paradise. I've started a thread there to document my journey as well. In case anyone's interested.
https://chuckersparadise.com/threads/green-mountain-grow-rooms.70/#post-768
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
One thing I also have gleaned from some of the organic forums on here is the gypsum is GREAT for your plants also! gives you that little bit of plant safe sulfur micro nute which really helps with terp production.
Dude, I'm not trying to be rude or anything but this is another reason that I started testing my soil. If you read Jeff Lowenfels or Steve Solomon's books, they will tell you how important soil testing is. Lowenfels had a chapter dedicated to it in one of his books.

Anyways, the reason that I don't use gypsum is because I already have an excess of sulfur and the added calcium is just going to get in the way of K. I have plenty of rock dust in my soil, so I don't think that Ca is going to be an issue.

I'm trying to say this without coming across as a dick, but I don't think that I was able to. Sorry.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Have you tried lessening the P inputs to the compost and adding more Mn inputs?
That is what led me to using less rabbit manure and using greensand again. I was on the fence about Azomite because of the aluminum, but I understand that bokashi will help detoxify the Al. Red wheat bran is supposed to be high in Mn, so it should be a win-win situation. Azomite has a good amount of Mn also, but I only started using it.

The way that I was making compost is rabbit bedding, oak leaves, and grass clippings. I decided to use a lot less rabbit bedding, so I started composting it by itself and adding it when it's done. Another interesting thing that Alan Adkisson said about EM1 is that he grew up on a dairy farm and they had to deal with "manure lagoons". He said that they would ferment the silage with EM1 and let it drain into the lagoons. He said that the lagoons started to get life back to them such as frogs and ducks. Somehow, the fermented silage took the toxicity out of the manure. Anyhow, I started using bokashi bran in my compost. It really helped with the worm population, that was until the mice ate them all. Anyways, here is my leaf compost that I started back in Nov. 2017. It was taking too long by itself, so I added it to my worm bin in Nov 2018. I'm hoping that it will be done by the end of the summer.
DSC01056.JPG
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
When my compost/Soil mix was too high in K,
I listen to Kis Organics podcast with Tad Hussey and several experts agreed that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K compared to regular food crops. I think that episode #17 explains the soil tests the best.
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

I know your concern because most farmers go off of "Base saturation ratios" when dealing with a Mehlich 3 soil test. Basically, Ca, Mg, and K need to be in the right ratio to keep lockout issues from happening. The problem is that cannabis is going to have a different base saturation ratio. I can read about this stuff and somewhat understand it, but I don't have a full understanding of everything.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
using unammended coco30%/peat70% blend.
I was using coco coir for worm bedding and I had it tested. It came back super high in potassium and sodium. However, I found out about low sodium coco coir and I might start using it for a slow release K.

I hope that I didn't hijack the thread and people get tired of me! I was just excited that I found some people on the same page as me...
 

raggyb

Well-Known Member
sounds like an interesting experiment! let me know how it goes!
Ok I lied, I took a pic
wicktest.JPG
on left is no soil and on right is pete. I wet the pete 3 days ago and sat like this for 3 days so far. water on left wicks up about 1 inch. on right wicks up most if not all the way like 3 inches to the soil. I'd guess the water came out of soil and down the cloth but it seems promising that no matter, in equilibrium it could keep soil from drying out if not outright wick water up.

Do you know the humidity readings at the top of your working sip, if it's not completely covered that is, and how it compares to your room's rH? I think it would be higher than the ambient rH but how much higher? Seems like a way to help dial in a homemade SIP design.
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
I was trying to get more involved in stuff like this now that I am legal! Hell, I was growing illegally since 2011 in Oklahoma... I have a new camera, so I'll try to take more pics.
I started my own thread as I go on about stuff oftentimes when I sit and smoke. LMFAO, figured I'd keep most of my rambling in my own thread. Hahahaha, wow I found that hilarious. Lol.
 

Jesselikes2grow

Well-Known Member
I listen to Kis Organics podcast with Tad Hussey and several experts agreed that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K compared to regular food crops. I think that episode #17 explains the soil tests the best.
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

I know your concern because most farmers go off of "Base saturation ratios" when dealing with a Mehlich 3 soil test. Basically, Ca, Mg, and K need to be in the right ratio to keep lockout issues from happening. The problem is that cannabis is going to have a different base saturation ratio. I can read about this stuff and somewhat understand it, but I don't have a full understanding of everything.
I made my basis from the burn I was getting and other signs they showed, my cheap soil test and various plant manual testing confirmed it. Not sure which method it employs. Is a series of vials and powders, color based like a ph chart. I had a number of test subjects to use while adjusting soil mix, 1 month cook time between input addition. This Was over a few months time. Was a slow process but worked out well in the end. Final mix soil tester jenny 1d is happy as can be and moved to a 10 gal fab now. Water only so far. Have been documenting in my own thread.
 
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