Seed Predisposition

skunkushybrid

New Member
More information is understood about animal species than about plant species. And it is generally assumed to be reasonable that there can be some similarity between plants and animals at some level.

So this predisposition of sex is a hot topic among zoologists and breeders. Here is what they found.

Some species, like alligators, can have more or less of a sex by altering incubation temptiture. Birds, in some cases, seem to follow the same pattern. However, some species seem not affected by outside influences.

I received that information from a well known bird veterinarian.

Since pollen has no subtle differences in appearance (i.e. male pollen or female pollen) I would speculate that environment has at least some part in determining the sex of the offspring. If you go back to the example of alligators, regardless of the environmental changes, you never get completely male or completely female, offspring from a clutch of eggs.

So, I believe, "feminized" is a generality, not an absolute.


Yes, but the changes all happen in the egg, not when the animal is young, or vegetating. If it happens outside the seed, or when the animal is young then a complete sex reversal would be needed, obviously.

The only evidence I've found so far that cannabis can be sex reversed during veg', is that misinterpreted DP article. Which, quite unbelievably, is lauded as scientific proof. Their test was on feminised seed (i know, because i read the whole thing), they were trying to reduce male populations on feminised seed using environmental factors. I understood it perfectly. Yet this information is cut n pasted, wrongly, across websites.

I want to se actual proof that sex reversal can happen under 24/0. It just isn't logical that a plant would complete a full sex reversal. More likely, it would just hermie.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
why is it females changing to males? why not the other way around? just wondering. seems like males NEVER turn into females. this could be important.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
why is it females changing to males? why not the other way around? just wondering. seems like males NEVER turn into females. this could be important.


It is very important and sits in perfectly with a growers desire to get more females, this is why this has pread so far. Doesn't matter what logic you use, somebody will bring up the DP thing... as though it's an end to the matter.
 

jackinthebox

Well-Known Member
This is right where I'm at smoker'. The only way environment (to my mind) could play a part in the sex of a seed, is in the parents. They're the ones that know the environment.
Wow, good thinking guys. Thats makes a lot of sense.

Just a side question. Do bagseed plants actually have a higher rate of males? Out of the 3 bagseed plants I have grown, all 3 were males, and I have heard lots of other comments, but is it actually a fact?


Smokeumpipe.... just stop being a jerk man, we are just trying to learn through the knowledge of each other <3


Much love growers <3
 

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
Riiiigghhhht reasoning and logic...yet everybodys reasoning and logic are different so what is it exactly your going to discover out of the blue just because someone spoke there mind?? Nothing??? oh okay thats what i thought...matterfact i was in mostly all advanced classes so we do no the answer to that, so instead of dissing people and attacking people, and typing your lil heart out about BS that you really dont know the answers to, go in and do some experiments and tests and post your findings...bc im not saying the ideas in this thread arent true but even the truth is BS until widely excepted as the truth..and some new rules do need to be made 1. rename it skunks forum for posting shit he'll never prove 2. block everyone so he can argue with himself and there you go you should be having tons of fun...like a blonde flipping over the paper that says "turn over" on both sides...and its sad bc id gladly add to the discussion if i didnt have 2 syphon through all the judgemental and rude comments you have..i remember i was on this site when you first came on here and you were about posting your pics and your grows and asking questions and helping people but i guess since you got all that rep and 7000+ posts youve decided to stuff your crotch a lil..we know what your compensating for , dont we??....silly,silly little thing..well im going back to the grow room where real things are found out and proven have fun discussing something you'll never know...

And Jack I'm not being a jerk one bit not even angry when I post...Im supposedly being the jerk but I was attacked first i tried adding to the discussion except skunk thinks he needs to try and degrade anyone who opposes his ideas..Im not gunna roll over bc the big lion face said something mean...stop coming at me and id stop responding to it...but as we all know skunk cant pass up opportunities to raise his self esteem
 

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
oh and just to add to the discussion, what if you take special care of the parent plants during the time you breed the seeds..im thinking if you stress the parent plants in some awful way during seed production this could turn all the seeds male or not all of them but your M/F ratio could be worse..and visa versa if you took extra care of your parent plants and show that theres a good environment maybe this will allow more female seed production...this is of course if the seed is already predetermined to be a certain sex..and i know this is going along with the environment factors others were talking about earlier but i think itd b a good test to try for instance get 2 female plants pregnant, baby the shit outta one and neglect the other and then plant the seeds you get off of them and see what the ratios are...if it makes no diff. then we know parent environment doesnt have much pull
 

donnieosmond

Well-Known Member
This is a very strong subject at the moment... and also one I am yet to recieve any satisfactory answers for. Are seeds pre-disposed to be one sex or the other? To my mind, seed pre-disposition means that the seed will have one stronger chromosome than the other. In other words, cannabis will have both chromosomes, but either the male or female chromosome will be dominant, with the other dormant (I believe this is in degrees)

If we don't agree that seeds are pre-disposed, then what does this leave?
This leaves a-sexuality, and hermaphroditism. Hermaphroditism is when both chromosomes are of equal dominance in the plant. It is also presently believed that the hermaphrodite 'gene' is stronger than either just male or female on it's own (this info' came from a breeder, i haven't checked it out). So, for me, this rules out hermaphroditism as a possibility.

We are now left with a-sexuality... my understanding of this is limited. Although, to my mind asexuality, is when a life-form has no sexual organs... Could cannabis actually be born a-sexual? and then decide from the environment what sex it is going to be? I doubt this. I doubt it because over the years we have noticed that, for the most part, male and female plants have different growth patterns. Males tall and thin, fem's short and bushy.

So, I think that seeds are pre-disposed to be one sex or the other... and that if this is the case. For 24/0 to have an effect on male/female ratios would mean the plant would have to do a complete sex reversal. one chromosome would need to go from dormant to dominant, just because of the longer day? I'll have to leave it here, there is more tucked away...
If I could just throw in my two cents here.. I'd say yes and no, as far as seeds being pre-disposed to a certain sex. But not in the way you think.

Some plants are asexual and don't reproduce through sexual reproduction. All of their offspring are in reality clones of the original (which you all know).

Other plants and all flowering ones have both sex organs present in the same plant (but like humans some flowers can be only male and others can be female). They can't reproduce with themselves though only with other plants of the same or very similar species. This is where the concept of pollination comes into play.

Sex and plants is a very complex issue and there are 11 different types of sexual reproduction methods used in plants. Some of these methods require that the plant has both sexual organs, like flowers, others are unisexual, and others have no sexual organs; most of them have

According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexua...
"Specific terms are used to describe the sexual expression of individual plants within a population.

- Androecious - plants producing male flowers only, produce pollen but no seeds, the male plants of a Dioecious species.
- Dioecious - having unisexual reproductive units with male and female plants. (flowers, conifer cones, or functionally equivalent structures) occurring on different individuals; from Greek for "two households". Individual plants are not called dioecious: they are either gynoecious or androecious.
- Gynoecious - plants producing female flowers only, produces seeds but no pollen, the female of a Dioecious species. In some plant species or populations all individuals are gynoecious with non sexual reproduction used to produce the next generation.
- Hermaphrodite - A plant that has only bisexual reproductive units (flowers, conifer cones, or functionally equivalent structures). In angiosperm terminology a synonym is monoclinous from the Greek "one bed".
- Monoecious - having unisexual reproductive units (flowers, conifer cones, or functionally equivalent structures) of both sexes appearing on the same plant; from Greek for "one household". Individuals bearing flowers of both sexes at the same time are called simultaneously or synchronously monoecious. Individuals that bear only flowers of a single sex at one time are called consecutively monoecious; protoandrous describes individuals that function first as males and then change to females; protogynous describes individuals that function first as females and then change to males.
- Subdioecious, a tendency in some dioecious species to produce monoecious plants. The population produces normally male or female plants but some are hermaphroditic, with female plants producing some male or hermaphroditic flowers or vise versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.
- Gynomonoecious - has both hermaphrodite and female structures.
- Andromonoecious - has both hermaphrodite and male structures.
- Subandroecious - plant has mostly male flowers, with a few female or hermaphrodite flowers.
- Subgynoecious - plant has mostly female flowers, with a few male or hermaphrodite flowers.
- Trimonoecious (polygamous) - male, female, and hermaphrodite structures all appear on the same plant.
- Diclinous ("two beds"), an angiosperm term, includes all species with unisexual flowers, although particularly those with only unisexual flowers, i.e. the monoecious and dioecious species."

There's not really much of a debate on the issue that some plants may have more males than females, since most plants are rooted they don't handle sex like animals do.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
Riiiigghhhht reasoning and logic...yet everybodys reasoning and logic are different so what is it exactly your going to discover out of the blue just because someone spoke there mind?? Nothing???oh okay thats what i thought...

And you say I talk to myself?

matterfact i was in mostly all advanced classes so we do no the answer to that,

I was talking about normal school, not special...

so instead of dissing people and attacking people, and typing your lil heart out about BS that you really dont know the answers to, go in and do some experiments and tests and post your findings...bc im not saying the ideas in this thread arent true but even the truth is BS until widely excepted as the truth..

I do, honestly... i do feel really sorry for you. You can't help being the way you are, i understand.

and some new rules do need to be made 1. rename it skunks forum for posting shit he'll never prove

What do you know about it? Pessimism is your middle name, right?

2. block everyone so he can argue with himself and there you go you should be having tons of fun...like a blonde flipping over the paper that says "turn over" on both sides...

I have no need to defend myself against this. There has been no scientific evidence published to prove the misinterpreted DP article right. Maybe you could find some, and actually add to the discussion, instead of running your mouth?

and its sad bc id gladly add to the discussion if i didnt have 2 syphon through all the judgemental and rude comments you have..i remember i was on this site when you first came on here and you were about posting your pics and your grows and asking questions and helping people

Still doing it now, even right here in this thread. I help plenty of people, all the time. The DP article has been misinterpreted, this thread will use reason and logic to prove that, get it yet? Just because you have no faith in your own abilities do not tar me with the same brush.



but i guess since you got all that rep and 7000+ posts youve decided to stuff your crotch a lil..we know what your compensating for , dont we??....silly,silly little thing..well im going back to the grow room where real things are found out and proven have fun discussing something you'll never know...

Great, let us know what you find out.

And Jack I'm not being a jerk one bit not even angry when I post...Im supposedly being the jerk but I was attacked first i tried adding to the discussion except skunk thinks he needs to try and degrade anyone who opposes his ideas..Im not gunna roll over bc the big lion face said something mean...stop coming at me and id stop responding to it...but as we all know skunk cant pass up opportunities to raise his self esteem

You know what you are.:mrgreen: You might as well admit it. Phew, that was a long post of nothing... wonder when the next one's coming.
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
oh and just to add to the discussion, what if you take special care of the parent plants during the time you breed the seeds..im thinking if you stress the parent plants in some awful way during seed production this could turn all the seeds male or not all of them but your M/F ratio could be worse..and visa versa if you took extra care of your parent plants and show that theres a good environment maybe this will allow more female seed production...this is of course if the seed is already predetermined to be a certain sex..and i know this is going along with the environment factors others were talking about earlier but i think itd b a good test to try for instance get 2 female plants pregnant, baby the shit outta one and neglect the other and then plant the seeds you get off of them and see what the ratios are...if it makes no diff. then we know parent environment doesnt have much pull
About time thankyou, although everything you've just said was said by smokerE in one sentence. Environment does play a part in the sex of a seed... but once it's born then it's sex is predisposed, and environmental factors would not be able to make the plant do a full sex reversal, merely hermie. You'd also need to do thousands of tests... 50/50 always evens out in the end, but (again) where is the end?
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
If I could just throw in my two cents here.. I'd say yes and no, as far as seeds being pre-disposed to a certain sex. But not in the way you think.

Some plants are asexual and don't reproduce through sexual reproduction. All of their offspring are in reality clones of the original (which you all know).

Other plants and all flowering ones have both sex organs present in the same plant (but like humans some flowers can be only male and others can be female). They can't reproduce with themselves though only with other plants of the same or very similar species. This is where the concept of pollination comes into play.

Sex and plants is a very complex issue and there are 11 different types of sexual reproduction methods used in plants. Some of these methods require that the plant has both sexual organs, like flowers, others are unisexual, and others have no sexual organs; most of them have quote]

But we know that cannabis is not some plants... cannabis is not asexual, it reproduces just like we do (in a way).
 

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
What couldnt think of something you proved to defend that first comment??

and No sorry your mistaken the short bus you rode is actually the special school...your mom lied...

and you cant help being the way you are...I told you you couldnt pass up the self esteem boost...its okay..were you beaten as a child??

and you bring up proof, proof, proof but yet you havent brought any proof to what your trying to find out just "logic and reasoning"...

no you help the few who "fear" you..if the person shows opinion opposite of yours there attacked...and ill find out more in my grow room than you will "discussing"...HA!!I wouldnt even waste the brush or paint on something so useless...and my abilities exceed expectations so faith really has nothing to do with it

Well if im being a jerk then i guess were in the same boat then..and was it a long post of nothing??? then you should feel pretty dumb for replying
 

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
I noted that what I brought up was previously touched on....and I was only talking about the parents and the making of the seed not the actual planting of the seed and growing it..Im wondering if optimal conditions for the parent plants would predispose more females...than say if you neglected the parent plants would this make more male predisposed seeds...and yes this would take a long time to prove and several tests but what if you did the pollinate 1 branch teqchnique so the seed selection is smaller and you can run more tests at once...or would it have to be a complete pollination to get the best answers??
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
I noted that what I brought up was previously touched on....and I was only talking about the parents and the making of the seed not the actual planting of the seed and growing it..Im wondering if optimal conditions for the parent plants would predispose more females...than say if you neglected the parent plants would this make more male predisposed seeds...and yes this would take a long time to prove and several tests but what if you did the pollinate 1 branch teqchnique so the seed selection is smaller and you can run more tests at once...or would it have to be a complete pollination to get the best answers??
Yes... I believe it would. The environment could be used to predispose seeds to be one sex or the other. I also have an idea of how this could be done, and indeed how the plant itself achieves this.

Would you like me to tell you?
 

SmokeUmPipe

Well-Known Member
If you would like not just for me but the whole board...bc im thinking of running a few tests next grow just to see if a neglected prego female will have more males than a healthy well taken care of prego female...bc for all i know it could turn out that the taken care of female still produces a 50/50 while maybe the neglected female makes a slightly higher male percentage or something of that sort
 

skunkushybrid

New Member
If you would like not just for me but the whole board...bc im thinking of running a few tests next grow just to see if a neglected prego female will have more males than a healthy well taken care of prego female...bc for all i know it could turn out that the taken care of female still produces a 50/50 while maybe the neglected female makes a slightly higher male percentage or something of that sort

why would I not do it just for you? Why so pessimistic? Optimism should be the order of the day...

I'll give you a clue... plants can see.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Any more questions?


when considering bag seed:

i would assume a lot of bag seed comes from females that produce 1 or 2 male flowers. i see this indoors a lot. these are the one or two seeds found in an ounce of weed. since there are only one or two we can assume that there was no male present. if this were the case wouldn't most bagseed be feminized. if femminized seeds come from female pollen this should hold true.


so my question is: Is bagseed more predispositioned to be female?


for the record; 80% of my seed grows are from bagseed. i would say i have had about 75% females over the last 4 years.
 
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