Scotch's Deep Water LED's, Multi Strain Space Adventure! (Ie. Thought consolidation)

vertise said:

Nice grow. What light do you prefer? At200 or area51

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It is definitely specific to what fits the situation.... I love my lights

The AT is just a monster, enough that I can definively say it is the most intense panel that we could purchase. (with the right spectrum) I have told Green that I think x2 in a 5x3' wouid be ideal, maybe even 5.5 with how the layover could be... I REALLY wanna find out... I never dropped my light lower than 24" this past run, and I know intensity was not what held this run back. (erhum.... my lazy ass was the common denominator==hello organics ) <-- at least for the downstairs area.

It is a Titan, to be honest... I am on the verge of getting another light and/or DIYing my next one, and I am concerned to add a second AT to just a 3x3... and I have CRAMMED some light in small spaces. If I were to I would not be any closer than 30", im betting after they can take that intensity... so 3rd week?) and by then, I am completely out of headroom with my fuckin Gator mounted and just isnt feasible in a 3x3. Personally you can just look, feel em and tell these things aren't built for smaller applications... After I say all this I look back and my brother Puffenuff has pulled it off numerous times! So you may hope over and give him a shout, a fellow proud owner of the 120 AND 200, and a helluva dude.

With that kind of power they have to pretty wicked fans running too. putting out some air, louder than the SGS, but quieter than my ProGrow 180!!!! lol. Always have to laugh a little bit.... but the AT does run warm, I have it in the 33x15" space now and 18" away it warms up my hand.

A good way to put... or a bad way... How I explain it the Hydro Shop guys, "My SGS is my 400w, and my AT is my 600w replacement.."

Now, did this run do that? Fukkkkkkk no, but taking numbers from each (don't know HOW old the bulbs were..), each panel was right on par with the hids. 400w was hitting 250umol @ 36"...... phew. I remember laughing out loud and the girl at the store just looked at me wondering what the hell.... And were pulling half from the plug.

My SGS is sweet, I love the switch feature, seriously. any panel with a spectrum switch is cool in my book (very vague statement, erhum.. progrows )

It runs unbelievably quiet, easily the most quiet I have ran.

both have a lifetime warranty, and you can always get in contact/their always aroudn, so you don't have to worry about them just dropping off the grid if something does happen. 'merica!!!

The versatility in the SGS is a little upper hand, but if I have the chance, my AT will be over whatever I am doing.

Speaking to Service, I have had great experiences with both companies, and have dealt with A51s warranty services, and exchanged several emails/phone calls with both companies.

Let me say 51 sticks to their warranty, if something happens they will fix it. Be driver that you have to put in, or whatthehellever. BUT, they go to the 'T...'

Do NOT take the stickers off after they have told you that is what you need to do to get inside the panel, until they say "ok now you can remove the stickers and screws," 'pparently they have to get in touch with their manu's and get the parts for THEIR warranty or whatever business' do... I did this- but they let it slide, was not happy about it and let me know- which I thought was bullshit... but they did stick by it. So my hats off. (old 2012 series)

Also, I bought my SGS used, and they will NOT cover secondhand customers under their warranty. Again, agree to disagree and ill just fuckin fix it myself IF it shits out. But, I have some faith, people have shit about loose lens but seriously... just bust out screwdriver, now if a fan stops (like djwimbo's, check out his journal if you can), id be hitting em up.

I am about to walk out the door and keep getting distracted so my train of thought is a little scattered, but I think I had posted some Apogee meter readings earlier in the thread. I love talking about the panels, if you cant tell.

Be safe.

So your telling people at the hydro shop that the at200 is a 600w hps replacement?!?!?!?.............cmon scotch, you know the weights it can pull, forget about the par#s over a 2x2 for a second...lol

I would have less of an issue in saying it's a 400w hps replacement, but I've yet to see a 1.5gpw grow to even become comparable to it........It comes down to the tight lens angle being the limiting factor, IDK maybe a grower will prove it is

be safe brother

Very informative. Makes me think my current plan is way over the top. I have taken a long hiatus from growing. Before my break I used 400hps-600hps for multiple plants 6-10 3x3 or slightly bigger area. I am coming back to it just on a smaller scale. 2 Plants in a 2x3x4or5 area or one plant in a 2x2x4or5 area. I want to push the limits on what i can do and what can be done. I don't have a budget that limits me. Quality over quantity is my only concern at this time cause the end result is just for personal use. I am completely new to led's. I was thinking a light for each plant directly centered over each one (at200). On top of that I was thinking of getting 2 lights with a spectrum geared more towards veg and 2 with a spectrum more towards flowering. Custom home made cabinet. I would like to make the cabinet completely sealed and try co2 (totally new to me). I have no clue what temperatures to expect with 2 at200's running in a small closed space at once without any ac. I know it would never happen with my hps' but I have this crazy idea that led's (i know very broad) will naturally balance out at a temp of 90-95. Best way to explain it is I want to go over the top if there is any possibility that over the top would produce a better result.

Nice write up scotch and thanks for the shout out. My next run (won't be until end of may) will most likely be a 2x6 area, partitioned into three 2x2 sections. One or two plants in each section. Each section will have one light, so it will be the AT120, the AT200, and SGS160. I have enough room to do another 2x2 but just missing another light...hmmm...thinking either the new solarflare 220 or something else, not sure yet. If I go four lights then it will only be 1 plant per section/light. The idea here is to continue where I left off with the 120 vs 200 comparison. And since the new layout (bye bye 3x3) gives me more options, I can also run the sgs side by side by side. Should be interesting.

PSUAGRO. said:

So your telling people at the hydro shop that the at200 is a 600w hps replacement?!?!?!?.............cmon scotch, you know the weights it can pull, forget about the par#s over a 2x2 for a second...lol

I would have less of an issue in saying it's a 400w hps replacement, but I've yet to see a 1.5gpw grow to even become comparable to it........It comes down to the tight lens angle being the limiting factor, IDK maybe a grower will prove it is

be safe brother

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I knew that'd peak some interest lol. Yes, and I even broke it down to a 250/400w equiv comp. for the shop's sake. But if brother dawg is doing as well with the SGS as he has before........ The outer coverage falloff was not as bad inside my 3x3 and kept up in the center. Am I the right grower to pull a lb... Naw.but I bet if FranJan ran his shifty critical pheno under one it'd do alright.

vertise said:

Very informative. Makes me think my current plan is way over the top. I have taken a long hiatus from growing. Before my break I used 400hps-600hps for multiple plants 6-10 3x3 or slightly bigger area. I am coming back to it just on a smaller scale. 2 Plants in a 2x3x4or5 area or one plant in a 2x2x4or5 area. I want to push the limits on what i can do and what can be done. I don't have a budget that limits me. Quality over quantity is my only concern at this time cause the end result is just for personal use. I am completely new to led's. I was thinking a light for each plant directly centered over each one (at200). On top of that I was thinking of getting 2 lights with a spectrum geared more towards veg and 2 with a spectrum more towards flowering. Custom home made cabinet. I would like to make the cabinet completely sealed and try co2 (totally new to me). I have no clue what temperatures to expect with 2 at200's running in a small closed space at once without any ac. I know it would never happen with my hps' but I have this crazy idea that led's (i know very broad) will naturally balance out at a temp of 90-95. Best way to explain it is I want to go over the top if there is any possibility that over the top would produce a better result.

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Sorry for the delay, since I wrote that post up I have been keeping a closer eye than I have lately on things, the AT gets warm to the top of your hand ~15" according to my level, and the SGS at 12"

I hear you on quality being priority, it sounds like your grow dimensions are still up in the air? Like I said, I can see someone cramming >300w in a 2x3' (I have) but with how the footprint looks, to me, if I get another AT- it will be in a 3x6' with a 2.5x5' area. Dream. If you are concerned about versatility I think I would really enjoy the 4:1 WR AT200s in veg. I always find myself using reds on and off to keep a good stretch when they're getting big...

I am veggin up my last SLH for a while that will go solo with the AT and 3x3 so we'll see how that goes..

90-95*, you shouldn't have to worry about those #'s. I have seen em in the last year, but I wasn't running my SGS or AT. I can let you know what my areas MASSIVE heat wreaks.... I am running in a heated area, without my Vortex/Filter running and have the SGS ~16" away in veg solid, and the aT was was probably a hair over 26".

I don't know how stealthy you are trying to make this cabinet but that is something to really think about during the setup, exhaust and shit.... If you are thinking about injecting CO2 you could get away with sealing the space, but that is uncharted territory my friend- always had a vent...

I do have an IR Thermometer, maybe it is time for a true side by side breakdown.....

I would get in contact with AT, you can ask for the wider set of lenses which will let you run it like 8" lower than you would with the stock set.

Some others I would consider looking into for cab styles/high heat are the BonsaiHero/Hans panel (passive cooled avail. depending on stealth..), Indagro, I would be that fucker stick in a 420 in a 2x4....... but maybe a 200 would be a better idea, maybe some IG users will chime in on Induction heat vs other options.. and the RW75 just became available at Area 51, so that is a pretty feasible option, two of those per 2x3 would do you solid.

Good luck with you endeavors man and keep us posted!



My brother puff I hope you are doing alright, I was wondering about the space!! I prefer a wider set space any day of the week over a "cubed" space. Much easier on the back. Though I am liking being able to rotate/train freely in all directions vs. left and right.

Is this market killing you too!? I have trigger finger like a mad man! Been itching to get a new tou for a couple weeks now........ wtf am I talking about its all the time.. but theres not a whole out there just blowing my mind.. idk. we'll see. hope life is treating you well friend!


***Mix Growers***

Ima have to post pictures later on, but I've fucked up my Space Queen and AoS in the solo cups. Thinking overwatered. But I hadn't watered for probably 4-5 days, no. I did not count or keep track. but I can say it was at least 4.

Serious cupping and yellowing, should I have cut the Happy Frog Potting mix with more perlite before using it?? I had noticed how long it stays heavy/dark but maybe I gave to much water this last one.

Should I transplant them? If so, into more Happy frog, mixed with perlite? bought a couple 1 gal smart pots today when I went to town just in case. Im not sure my mix is ready. Could I just replant them in the solos?

Also have my Fruity Chronic giving some nice purple stems, very woody/stiff feel. Nice new growth comping through, but still ugly.... same happy frog mix, top dressed with leftover kelp/alfalfa/compost from tea and drying out a bit faster.


The hydro SLH and FC are doing great, like I said, plan on flipping that SLh when shes good and ready. Probably going to just use this FC to clone out, been doing a lot of horizontal LST to get some tops out from one another.

Be safe everyone!

Scotch089 said:

***Mix Growers***

Serious cupping and yellowing, should I have cut the Happy Frog Potting mix with more perlite before using it?? I had noticed how long it stays heavy/dark but maybe I gave to much water this last one.

The hydro SLH and FC are doing great, like I said, plan on flipping that SLh when shes good and ready. Probably going to just use this FC to clone out, been doing a lot of horizontal LST to get some tops out from one another.

Be safe everyone!

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Cough, ....pictures....., Cough.

What did you add to your HF? I'm a little late to this thread so I missed that part. Could be overwatered and hungry. I mean, Alfalfa!!!??? What's wrong with Plant-Tone? It's a plant, not a cow y'know . God only knows what ya feeding that dog of yours. LOL "Here Skippy, have some birdseed." LOL

FranJan said:

Cough, ....pictures....., Cough.

What did you add to your HF? I'm a little late to this thread so I missed that part. Could be overwatered and hungry. I mean, Alfalfa!!!??? What's wrong with Plant-Tone? It's a plant, not a cow y'know . God only knows what ya feeding that dog of yours. LOL "Here Skippy, have some birdseed." LOL

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You know that espoma plant-tone REEKS indoors...........outdoors it's great until all the critters start chomping on your ferts/plants..........lol

powdered Vegan ferts have zero smell and no pathogens to worry about, and local "wild" life seems uninterested too from my experience.

PSUAGRO. said:

You know that espoma plant-tone REEKS indoors...........

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No I didn't. Must be that 20 lbs of activated carbon saving my ass again . Sorry but give me cow shit or give me death. Actually cow shit and a dead raccoon is a hell of a combo, pathogens be damned! Fuckin hippies always gotta ruin everything! (jk) LOL

Real Organics, Not For The Squeamish.

Jesus Fran, that's just raunchy.. And I was worried about asbestos. Ha.

The site won't load from the desktop- keeps saying it is at risk. "Reported attack page" but I did just go take some shots for you guys/the PCC. I'll get em up when I can

Scotch089 said:

My brother puff I hope you are doing alright, I was wondering about the space!! I prefer a wider set space any day of the week over a "cubed" space. Much easier on the back. Though I am liking being able to rotate/train freely in all directions vs. left and right.

Is this market killing you too!? I have trigger finger like a mad man! Been itching to get a new tou for a couple weeks now........ wtf am I talking about its all the time.. but theres not a whole out there just blowing my mind.. idk. we'll see. hope life is treating you well friend!

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm looking forward to moving into a wider a space next round. The 3x3 was just too bulky and awkward for my lady's liking. Even though it was in the spare room it just took up too much floor space. So we compromised and I'll be getting a whole closet for my girls. Plus with a 2x6 it will actually be an upgrade in area and I'll be able to inspect the girls more closely.

Yeah the market out here is insane right now. Not much available and when you find something you like, there's a dozen other offers on the table and people are acting like they are desperate, bidding way over asking prices, foreigners coming with cash offers, makes it tough to compete. We got lucky and managed to score a nice one in a matter if a couple weeks. I've been itching for some new toys too. But since I'm a few months out from starting up again, no sense in placing any orders anytime soon. If I do, it will either be from clw, advanced (if that arc series ever gets released, or another at200, but that's all up in the air right now.

Hope everything is going good in your neck of the woods. Peace and let's see some nugs!!

Site back up, update

Alright, I have some questions for my friends out there!

Coffee Grounds, Dandelions, Banana Peels and Egg Shells ....

...What should I do with them? Let me rephrase, what is the best approach to use em? shells just mash up and put in the mix? But what about the dandelions, I feel like I read someone saying Coffee Grounds were too hot themselves to just throw in... banana peels? <--Vermi bin??

I am finally getting around to thinking about setting up a legit Worm Bin in "Southern Narnia," away from all the foot traffic, damp, and cool.


Also, what about leaves, are there any specific leaves that are more beneficial or that I should steer clear of? (I have SEVERAL Walnut trees........... FML! and a few maples over just <2 acres) I was amazed never thinking of the 1" thick layer of just.... mashed up leaves settle back in the further parts of the yard, do you think that land is very fertile/usable? I have been seriously considering myself an outdoor garden this year.

I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying that WARM weather! I think ive got it under control this year though, got my hands on a new Variac Transformer and NOW my Vortex S-Line is truly silent, running at ~50-55V is probably 30 some watts drawn? "Worst" case I do have the 3x3' I can go to.

Here are some shots of the ICU in narnia, right before I moved em under the SGS and watered em. (dead AoS I tried saving, had balls when I found it anyways..)

As you can see, Im basically hovering over my plants 90% of the time... naw, I got shit to do these days but things are very slow going in those parts. I took it as a sign when I found these three lying around though, even if I do need to keep it "moderate," this is our forte. [Just don't know if I can get away with spending any more money on lights, ha...]







Everyone be safe and take care!

Good to see the update, u had me worried for a min

Use dandelions as a botanical mix, u can simply put them in water with air stone and bubble em for 24+ hrs foilar and water drench with it use left over dandi for either top mulch or throw in worm bin

Use egg shells and bannana peel in worm bin, egg shells add calcium the the casting, bannana add P and K, keep in mind worms will pretty mich eat anything, except meat and other few exceptions, citrus for example, bad for worms.

If u most u can dry up egg, powder them, and top dress.

Keep it up brotha, pm me if u need anything!

Thank you fly, I'm doing alright over here- just gotta stay simple for now. Still don't know if I'll have probation or not, that could be a game changer, but I'm gonna at least keep preparing the mix and keeping what I have going- going. I'm pissed about the genetics I have thrown down the drain in the past two years, not sure ill be able to get another cut of my friends FCJ, I'm sure he wouldn't mind doing it- it's just the process of getting it. I have beans but still.. Lost my blue OG, gsc's, and a few other tasty sounding ones from delicious. Speaking of...

You guys get to help me figure out which of these seeds are which, originally I think I had planted:

X2 GSC
X1 BLue OG
X1 Sweet Black angel
X1 Sugar black rose
X1 Lavendar(?)

So as the days go on hopefully we'll be able to see these tykes grow up on us, and they'll have a name by the end of it.. Till then they're mystery se3ds

So basically...... I just need to make a bin, damn it... I'll go get the totes this weekend and start refreshing. Anything I can do with the coffee or is that a waste of effort? Lol.

I think chronik was the one that instigated the dandelion thing but what are so beneficial from those? Is there any way I an preserve the , I half like half a 5 gal of em and was worried I had too many/little, idk how mch is adequate or if just ANY is great, then I start thinking more is better, but is there a threshold when it's just killin your back pickin dandys? Ha.. I am stoked tht can be my botanical/foliar that all you guys have been doin with aloe, haven't sourced that yet

I need to get more rock dust.. I'm not so hot on that part of the mix, but it's costly in shipping. Other than that I think it's the waiting game for now.

I feed my worms coffee grounds. They love it. Makes them reproduce like egg shells do.. Dandelions are full of all kinds of minerals. Great source of silica too. I use aloe in foliar, teas and as cloning gel. Fresh home grown aloe Vera..... look up agrowynn. They make rock dust and worm castings. They are sold all over. Also keep it simple organics does flat rate shipping. They are pretty cheap.

What i like to do...probably wrong....gather all my food scraps, dandelions, comfrey and mulch them to paste...(i have a small wood chipper but food processor will work) last night i did this and the slop that resulted went into my 'cooking soil' (made it on the 22nd April) to add food for the worms and 'native compost' for the soil...

I 'slop' all my food scraps and amendments...

Txt shortly

Thank you for the insight guys, CarpetMuncher linked a sweet little Weed Accumulator somewhere and Dandelions are just rocking!! helped me remember why I had first been interested- chron/psu were talking about Silica! Silica for the world!

Wish I had local aloe/nettle, but I am getting moving on the vermi bin. My biggest question is- how much bedding?

I ordered 1k worms, the original bins I had in mind seemed to small, so Im just gonna use a few of my million res'. I am not sure if ALL leaves is okay? I added about 3 hefty cups of the cooking Soil Mix for "texture" and probably 3 two-handed handfuls of dandelions. Havent added the eggshells yet, diudnt wanna waste em in case I fucked somethin up.

I did NOT put cardboard in the bottom before filling it, don't remember if I was supposed to. Worms should be here midweek and hopefully theyll thrive.

Kids are doing well, all three of em have their own shitty problems, but all three of em are alive and well, and THATs sweet. The one with no main growth has developed what looks like separate tops (topped itself?), the best of the three is OW'd, and the third is alive- but stunted.


thinking about some Dream Beaver from Bodhi, gonna do some digging before I germ but it's that or TGA (or sour Kush [RP])

so I have gotten a little heavier and heavier in keeping up with the subbed threads, finally caught up and watching the fires take off. I fell off there for a bit, probably for the best.. but I wont be picking up any momentum for a while.

I hope everyone is doing well, Fran, G, psu, puff, Fly, and even Hyroot. I hope you dudes are taking care of yourselves. Chroni- you to you crazy twat.

Thought id give yall the lowdown in my neck of the woods, (psu im about 4 hours from your home state to give you a reference..)

SO. I burned myself, Ive always driven with the shit with me, except when the tyke was with me. And ironically, I always bust my dads balls because he is constantly rolling stop signs. Well, on my way home I was nabbed for creeping through one, and I had to restrain from arguing how much of a rolling stop it really was. But, respect goes a long way.

I didn't lose my license, could of. For a wapping dime in my dugout. Dbags... anyways. PROBATION for this guy.

For you who don't know (I hadn't), you give up your 4th amendment rights :O yea... my heart sank. O, and I can even drink. So fuck me running right? Right. Get to call a bullshit hotline every day to "check in"

Even being a "low risk" participant, HA, they have no idea....... It is too big of a risk having ANYTHING here and they come knockin on my door. All I have left, are the seeds that I didn't waste starting and tossing out. (probably trashed 150 bucks worth. Bastards..)

My lights are collecting dust but I flip em on everytime I go into Narnia to do some cleaning or what have yah. Just to get a little warm fuzzy... it does fucking suck, let me tell you that...... but, I put myself here, too much of anything, is a bad thing, and I should have been able to wait till I had gotten home. O well.

Gave all my stock to my dad, who didn't want them in the mason jars like I suggested, and now, according to his wife (who has no idea), his garage smells like a skunk died and he needs to find it. HAHHAHA.... Christ.... I told him to get rid of it at least 3 times while I was over there last, it hits you like a wall.

Anyways, we're doing alright. Just buckled by Justice. So, as fly's heart breaks- I had not had the opportunity to run my LOS batch I mixed back ~February, but I did put it to use and built myself a 4x8 garden bed and started getting my hands dirty in the outdoors, legal style.

Fun fact- you know anything to do with MJ in Arizona, possession of a dime, paraphernalia, etc, is a FELONY. Here about the teen in Texas for the batch of brownies looking at a Life Sentence? But by god an officer killing a pedestrian, intoxicated, on the job- gets to walk away. HA......

Fuck me, no matter how bad it gets. It can always be worse.

Good news is, like 'root brought up in his thread, the feds can no longer take action inside the state, so hopefully
things start moving in the right direction.

Everyone be SAFE! Even txting and driving is ticket worthy, and probably more so.

BTW felt bad I didn't leave an update on this- it was 112g, not horrible but was all going to go to edibles before I stumbled into trouble.