Root Development vs Plant Growth

5000joints · Dec 20, 2011

Hi guys. Ive been growing for years. The best way for me is this..... Veg under both a MH and an HPS. That will promote great root growth and thick stems with short internode lengths. I put the germinated seeds into Solo Cups. Once they reach about 5-6 inches tall, I t/p into 1 gallon pots. After a week I top them. This promotes secondary root systems. Once the plants show sex, I t/p into 3 gallon buckets. I switch to all HPS lamps. Where they ride out the remaining time under HPS lamps. I have grown in 1 gallon buckets and dont get nearly the yield from the 3's. I may get a quicker harvest from less veg time, Its alot more buckets to fill the space which means alot more work checking moisture levels all day on 120 1 gallon buckets.

Pic 1 n' 2 is the seedling getting t/ped into a 1 gallon.
Pic 3 - A seedling 1 week after the t/p.
Pic 4 - Another healthy root system in a Solo Cup.
Pic 5 - A G-Force ( which yields huge ) in a 1 gallon bucket.
Pic 6 - This is when I t/p them. The ph can fluctuate badly in a small container. The single leaf turns yellow and its time.
Pic 7 - Rapid growth after the t/p.
Pic 8 - Healthy roots and room to grow mean thick healthy stems to support the fruits.
Pic 9 - The proof is in the pudding. Heres a Purps x Mass.Super Skunk grown in FFOF soil in a 3 gallon bucket under a 600w HPS.
............................BIG HEALTHY ROOTS = BIG HEALTHY FRUITS..........................................................................

Uncle Ben · Dec 20, 2011

5000joints said:
Hi guys. Ive been growing for years. The best way for me is this..... Veg under both a MH and an HPS. That will promote great root growth and thick stems with short internode lengths. I put the germinated seeds into Solo Cups. Once they reach about 5-6 inches tall, I t/p into 1 gallon pots. After a week I top them. This promotes secondary root systems. Once the plants show sex, I t/p into 3 gallon buckets. I switch to all HPS lamps. Where they ride out the remaining time under HPS lamps. I have grown in 1 gallon buckets and dont get nearly the yield from the 3's. I may get a quicker harvest from less veg time, Its alot more buckets to fill the space which means alot more work checking moisture levels all day on 120 1 gallon buckets.

Pic 1 n' 2 is the seedling getting t/ped into a 1 gallon.
Pic 3 - A seedling 1 week after the t/p.
Pic 4 - Another healthy root system in a Solo Cup.
Pic 5 - A G-Force ( which yields huge ) in a 1 gallon bucket.
Pic 6 - This is when I t/p them. The ph can fluctuate badly in a small container. The single leaf turns yellow and its time.
Pic 7 - Rapid growth after the t/p.
Pic 8 - Healthy roots and room to grow mean thick healthy stems to support the fruits.
Pic 9 - The proof is in the pudding. Heres a Purps x Mass.Super Skunk grown in FFOF soil in a 3 gallon bucket under a 600w HPS.
............................BIG HEALTHY ROOTS = BIG HEALTHY FRUITS..........................................................................

Nice job.

Some tips. Germinate in taller pots, like 20 oz Styro-cups. Deal with the spin out by using Rootmaker injection molded pots to increase root mass and of course yield.

Good luck,
UB

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 20, 2011

4" pots...

genuity · Dec 20, 2011

skunkushybrid01 said:
4" pots...

whats the grow style on these?

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 20, 2011

genuity said:
whats the grow style on these?

I like to grow to around 2-2.5ft, but have no problems growing up to 4ft plants in them if from seed.

I like SoG for the most part as that is the most efficient grow method which is why my plants don't branch out as i tend to cramp in as many as I can. or did, i shut down my op a couple months ago and have gone back to large (1 gallon) pots for a grow just to see if i'm wrong. also got a couple hydro plants growing but they're in 5 gallons. I can growin anything and with any method, i switch up to suit whatever.

5000joints · Dec 20, 2011

Wow SkunKusHybrid. Great job. Who would of thought.

5000joints · Dec 20, 2011

Thanx for the tip Uncle Ben. I use 20 oz Solo Cups. R the styrofoam ones taller? Ill check it out. The Rootmaker needs its own mix. Kind of a downfall for me. Plus it needs a tray 20 inches above ground level. Another minus for me. They look great. I bet it works fantastic with fantastic results. But for me, I like to just fill with FFOF soil from start to finish. Its really easy for me to manage 100 seedlings in the cups for 2 weeks, then t/p into 1's. The money spent on the pots and holding trays for just the 2 weeks in them just doesnt seem worth the cost at this time for me but thanx for the h/u when I do have the extra dough.

mccumcumber · Dec 20, 2011

Knowledge of the RAM explains why UB is suggesting his pots. You are in a sense constantly training your roots so they never "get big and useless." It's the equivalent of topping your SAM. The copper at the edge of the pot cause the root growth to become less linear and the secondary root apical meristems start to take over the growth.

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 20, 2011

mccumcumber said:
Knowledge of the RAM explains why UB is suggesting his pots. You are in a sense constantly training your roots so they never "get big and useless." It's the equivalent of topping your SAM. The copper at the edge of the pot cause the root growth to become less linear and the secondary root apical meristems start to take over the growth.

Yet those roots will not do anything unless the rest of the environment makes the equation work. If the environment were to allow that then the plant would naturally produce more shorter roots anyway with no need for pruning.

Uncle Ben · Dec 20, 2011

skunkushybrid01 said:
Yet those roots will not do anything unless the rest of the environment makes the equation work. If the environment were to allow that then the plant would naturally produce more shorter roots anyway with no need for pruning.

....thigh bone is connected to the hip bone. The hip bone is connected to the.......

Uncle Ben · Dec 20, 2011

5000joints said:
The Rootmaker needs its own mix. Kind of a downfall for me.

No it doesn't.

Look people, if you don't understand the principles and caveats of root tip pruning, then just say so.

UB

grapeoptimo · Dec 20, 2011

that dude grows a 4 ft plant in a 1 gallon or smaller pot and he has a fuckin attitude but its kind of impressive. I'm definitely trying it.

@UB -Do smart pots do any root tip pruning?

born2killspam · Dec 20, 2011

skunkushybrid01 said:
I checked the link. it leads to a site that you need to be a member of to view the thread... and i have no intention of making an account just to look at some guy's thread. If you have anything real to share then please do. here is that question again: Are you saying it is less efficient to feed a plant through the leaves? If so, can you explain in what way?I have done my homework, obviously a heap more than you have as you seem to concentrate in one area and on one man, yet struggle too to provide any substantial information for me to digest. You go from mentioning one guy to mentioning another... You take the time to respond yet fail to provide anything substantial. What I read sticks in my head and i have no problem reiterating that information in my own words. Your words promise much and deliver nothing. I'm disappointed as I've been trying to prove myself wrong for a few years now.. this is why i've gone back to big pots for a grow. I just need to see it one more time.I like the reading though too... i tend to do things myself first and then find the explanations for what i'm seeing. Just like anybody else though I could be wrong, making connections that are not there based on other connections that are loose fitting, etc, etc...Pruning the roots or trimming them is still just a way of maintaining a certain-sized root system, or restricting it. As i've stated, there are many journals out there where root pruning is mentioned as just another system of root restriction. Although I will agree that there are separate repercussions from one or the other. With root pruning for example the plants are encouraged to build new roots, concentrate on new root growth... whereas actually just constricting the roots encourages the plant to utilise that system more intensely. It is documented that a constricted root system will increase efficiency to compensate for being smaller.

It's never typically the best approach to stress plants in any way.. Don't get me wrong, strong plants will definitely handle it well enough, and may even produce more mass, but IMO that mass increase is primarily stem-weight, and the sweetness of a well treated plant is lost.. (And for the record, I'm basing this off of observations of clones that I grew, and sometimes mutilated for kicks.. So I know what could be obtained from the genetics in question..) Basically stressing plants is good for bikers etc, but bad for connoisuers..

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 21, 2011

grapeoptimo said:
that dude grows a 4 ft plant in a 1 gallon or smaller pot and he has a fuckin attitude but its kind of impressive. I'm definitely trying it.

@UB -Do smart pots do any root tip pruning?

I only have an attitude with people that give me one... i just go harder so it looks like i'm the bad guy. I have fed lots of facts into this thread only for it to be spammed by the pot shill UB. Yeah, that annoys me a little, he's not even paying for advertising.

If you do try and grow from seed in a 4" pot, please be aware that you will need to maintain the medium, i'm pretty sure that means being aware of how the nutrients move around in the medium and of excess salts. obviously in a smaller medium any sodium build-up will start to get bigger. You may also need to water up to 3 times a day in peak flower or veg (if you veg 24/0). I never measure my nutes, i use GH 2 part, micro and bloom... but i'd advise that you feed hard for several days and then give a plain water feed, make the plain water feeds intermittent... no need for regularity. the point of the plain water feed is to help clean the medium of salts, even help unlock some of them. water is a great chelating agent.

I once grew a 6ft landrace sativa in a 4" pot but i failed mid flower due to high salt issues... nothing i could do about it... so you can go too big to handle. If i were you i'd start out with clones and try veg'ing for 2 weeks then flip. You should end up with a plant around 2.5ft (if growing a regular hybrid). The more room you give the plants, the more they will spread out. when growing in smaller pots i have a tendency to cram in more plants, so they grow straight up naturally, no need for training. aside from sativas, outright sativas will branch out and overtake a space no matter what.

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 21, 2011

born2killspam said:
It's never typically the best approach to stress plants in any way.. Don't get me wrong, strong plants will definitely handle it well enough, and may even produce more mass, but IMO that mass increase is primarily stem-weight, and the sweetness of a well treated plant is lost.. (And for the record, I'm basing this off of observations of clones that I grew, and sometimes mutilated for kicks.. So I know what could be obtained from the genetics in question..) Basically stressing plants is good for bikers etc, but bad for connoisuers..

stress does not promote growth, it promotes potency and hermaphroditism. stress halts growth. so stress is actually better for connoisseurs.

Uncle Ben · Dec 21, 2011

grapeoptimo said:
that dude grows a 4 ft plant in a 1 gallon or smaller pot and he has a fuckin attitude but its kind of impressive. I'm definitely trying it.

@UB -Do smart pots do any root tip pruning?

Yes, but they're also expensive. If you want to learn all about the most important basic foundations to plant culture, call them up and get the DVD. It's long so you'll have to do 20 minute sessions, but about the best education one can get when it comes to botany, plant culture. You'd think it was all about sales, it's not. 90% of what he teaches in that DVD is pure horticulture....and you're getting it from one of the best in the field, not some shithole op like AN. http://www.rootmaker.com/rootmakersystem.php

Here's a YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3N21KaL-vY

Uncle Ben · Dec 21, 2011

skunkushybrid01 said:
stress does not promote growth, it promotes potency and hermaphroditism. stress halts growth. so stress is actually better for connoisseurs.

Stress does not promote potency. That's another forum myth (along with the others such the app of Vitamin B, totally useless). And what's up with the elitist "connoisseurs" crap?

Your plants look stressed out and rightfully so. A pint size pot aka 4" only serves to stunt growth and production.

This is what a <cough> a "connoisseur" grows, a healthy plant in a 3 gallon pot.

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 21, 2011

Uncle Ben said:
Stress does not promote potency. That's another forum myth (along with the others such the app of Vitamin B, totally useless). And what's up with the elitist "connoisseurs" crap?

Your plants look stressed out and rightfully so. A pint size pot aka 4" only serves to stunt growth and production.

This is what a <cough> a "connoisseur" grows, a healthy plant in a 3 gallon pot.

View attachment 1946899

View attachment 1946903

LOL, you talk about stress, clearly you missed the plant in the background of pic 2. also the close up of that plant shows tip necrosis from lack of nutrients, also the stems are calling for P. the palnt in the background looks like she's shouting K, give me some K! but you ignore her and let the fans die off. stress, eh... LOL.

a 4" pot serves to stunt upward growth, it also serves to make tighter buds with a heavier dry weight than had the roots not been restricted.

potency is increased with stress... it is a natural plant response to stress. IME.

skunkushybrid01 · Dec 21, 2011

Uncle Ben said:
And what's up with the elitist "connoisseurs" crap?

ask born2killspam, he's the guy that brought it up.

Root Development vs Plant Growth

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