Riot seeds

Well I think it's insulting that you and all of these chronies are calling riot a thief because he's able to s1 rare and potent genetics. While these s1's are controversial because of hermie tendencies its up to the grower to identify these cause not all s1 are gonna be hermies. Most growers don't even know what a male sack looks like. That's scary

Black Cherry Soda cut isn't Subcool's creation.

racerboy71 said:

Hey eyeball while I tend to agree with you about no one owning genetics.. would you mind keeping the personal insults to yourself please and thank you..

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I agree with you about leaving invective out of this.

On ownership of genetics, in my opinion the subject is a bit more complex than a blanket statement that "no one owns them".

Yes, right now, nobody has legal ownership of ordinary drug cannabis genetics.

I'd also agree that nobody can really lay claim to individual cannabis traits (eg pine flavor, purple color, etc), since most of these are widely spread around, and virtually never truly developed by any one individual. From the earlier post, Subcool can't really say "I own Black Cherry Soda (or whatever) and nobody else is allowed to clone it, sell it, or breed with it". Well. . he can say it. . .but since there is no practical mechanism for him to enforce the ownership in this case, its basically hot air.

With respect to Riot, I have zero problem with him appropriating "clone only" or even commercial lines, crossing them, making S1s, or breeding with them in any way he chooses, so long as he's fundamentally honest about the genetics of the final product.

For example, if you know you're breeding with thing "A", but you claim you're breeding with thing "B", that's fraud, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with "stealing" the genetics per se, but just how you represent your product. Same as claiming a strain is 20% THC, when the reality is, its only 14%, or you truly have no idea since you've never tested it. In Riots case, I know he's been caught lifting other people's IMAGES of plants, which is unethical at best.

These things said, speaking for myself, I have no problem in principle with someone who truly develops a novel strain or novel genetics, obtaining LIMITED patent protection on their development. For example, if someone spends $400,000 and three years developing a particular unique strain that has an exactly 1:1:1 THC:CBD:THCV ratio, and if they can show that they were the first one to do it with nothing else out there like it, I think its only fair to award them 7 years patent protection on that line, so that anyone else who uses it has to pay them royalties.

I know a lot of people disagree with this approach, but that's how its done with a wide variety of plants now, including apples, grains, etc.

If you want breeders to put in the huge expense and amount of work necessary to develop really new unique and/or outstanding medical strains, then giving them sole ability to commercially exploit these developments for a few years is one powerful incentive for encouraging this sort of work. Nobody is going to spend the money on test-driven selective breeding and/or DNA-based genetic selection, if after they've done all the hard work to create a truly outstanding new strain, any idiot with a $10 cloner can come along and legally knock off 100 copies at will!

Its exactly this kind of thing that kept "Girl Scout Cookies" and others bottled up as tightly held clone-only strains for so long.

Subcool has nothing to do with the Black Cherry Soda cut, he just used it in a cross, LOL!

My problem with say ownership of cannabis genetics jogro is that a very large percent of today's genetics all stem froma very small gene pool..
Let's just say skunk #1 .. northern lights ( any number).. haze.. and let's say a land race kush like Afghani or w/e you prefer for this ex..
Say the of breeders of skunk #1 or the breeder of NLS were able to trademark their strains.. where would we have been in the late 80's and early 90's since these were all the back bone of many a breeding project?
I do get what you mean about someone getting ripped off for all their hard work.. I really do.. but at the same x so long as you give credit to the of breeder of a strain you use in your breeding project.. I don't really see an issue there as there's not much more one can do considering the illegality of cannabis at this time..
My biggest fear is when and if cannabis becomes fully legal and big pharma and tobacco co's jump in feet first the first thing they're going to want to do is trade mark cannabis strains.. where will small breeders be at if this were to occur ? Surel they aren't going to have d $$$ needed to pay for use of a trade marked strain in their work and the only one who will be allowed to grow and sell let's just say Newport og will be lorilard ..
Just seems like a very slippery and dangerous slope and one I really hope not to see cannabis go down..

blissfest said:

Black Cherry Soda cut isn't Subcool's creation.

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Sorry if I put that out there mistakenly. . .that was what I inferred from Eyeballs post.

I was just using it as an example, by the way. I'm not picking on Subcool here, and this could be any cut or line by any breeder.

eyeball696 said:

Well I think it's insulting that you and all of these chronies are calling riot a thief because he's able to s1 rare and potent genetics. While these s1's are controversial because of hermie tendencies its up to the grower to identify these cause not all s1 are gonna be hermies. Most growers don't even know what a male sack looks like. That's scary

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With due respect, except for the stupidest of new growers, "most growers" can sex their plants just fine.

Everyone with any degree of experience growing knows firsthand what male plants look like, and those who lack it can find out with just a few seconds search on either the internet or any one of a dozen published books on cannabis cultivation available at any bookstore.

On Riot, I didn't call him a thief, just a "pollen chucker".

Some of his genetics are rare. . .some aren't so rare. (eg you can source a cut of Green Crack/Dream Queen at any CA dispensary for a few bucks nowadays). "Rare" doesn't always mean "good".

Yes, Riot is good at getting his hands on cuts of clone only lines, but bluntly that's not as difficult as it once was, due to the groundswell of legal MMJ States and boards like this one. If you make the right contacts, these things can be done.

But trading racehorses isn't the same thing as breeding them.

Again, there is no trick to making an S1 of any clone only line. . .the hardest part of the process is just getting the cut.

In any case, S1s of clone only lines are almost invariably inferior to the original. If it were possible to easily replicate clone only lines into ceed form by self-pollinating them, there simply wouldn't be such a thing as a "clone only line", since anyone with any cut of anything could easily make as many ceeds as they liked and pass them around. Its not just increased tendency for hermies, but also in most cases, significant pheno variation, to the point where no two ceeds from a pack of S1s look like either each other OR the parent clone only plant!

The same is true of F1s between two different clone only lines. There is no breeding skill involved in doing that either, and in most cases, simply crossing two "elite" clones throws off a variety of hybrid plants that are inferior to either parent.

The "trick" there is doing repeated selection and crosses over many generation to isolate and stabilize the desired traits from each of the two parents. That takes quite a bit of skill and hard work, explaining why pollen chuckers like Riot don't offer many beans beyond F1s.

Please list all the actual educated "Breeders" that you know of. Breeders that went to college and studied Botany.

Shanti is the only one that I can think of off hand,

Subcool is about as UNEDUCATED a breeder as one can get, he even admits it, which I respect.

These guys like Swerve and Raskal, ect, just started growing not that long ago, they are just stoners that wanted in the game, they're not real breeders

Its strange that some of you guys look at todays "Breeders" and think they are God like people? Many of these guys started in a closet, Moms basement, a small Cab grow, ect. It would probably surprise you that many may not even graduated from High School.

racerboy71 said:

My problem with say ownership of cannabis genetics jogro is that a very large percent of today's genetics all stem froma very small gene pool..
Let's just say skunk #1 .. northern lights ( any number).. haze.. and let's say a land race kush like Afghani or w/e you prefer for this ex..

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Well lets be clear about what we are talking about here, because there are two things:

There is PATENT, which is legal protection of a plants GENETICS.
And there is TRADEMARK, which is legal protection of a plants BRAND NAME.

Right now, nobody can TRADEMARK any drug cannabis name in the USA. So anyone can call anything they like "Racerboy's Green" and sell it as such. Not so good for you, if you've spent ten years of your life breeding that line and currently make your living selling it.

PATENT, protects a lines genetics. So even if you were to Trademark your strain "Racerboy's Green", if the genetics weren't patented, I could still snip a clone, rename it "JoGro's Gold" then sell as many cuts as I liked. Think of Coca-Cola. . .nobody else can use the name "Coca-Cola" on their beverage, because its trademarked. However, Coke keeps the secret recipe locked up in a vault because its not patentable. . .if I find out what's in there, I can whip up an exact clone of it called "JoGro cola" and sell as much as I like.

Patents are powerful things for those that hold them, but there are two very significant limiting factors:

First of all, a patent can't be issued on something that isn't new. So Skunk #1, Northern lights, etc. . .all these genetics have been around for 20+ years, and none should be patentable now. More important, hybrids derived from these also wouldn't be patentable, because all these things have been widely hybridized already and the hybrids are in common use. Assuming this to be true, with *maybe* the exception of some of the CBD-strains, pretty much NONE of the current crop of drug strains would be patentable.

The only way a cannabis strain is going to be patentable is if its really something uniquely different. EG, someone comes up with a mutant with a weird leaf shape, or a truly novel cannabinoid profile.

Next restriction, plant patents in particular have a fairly short life. . .only 20 years from the patent application. So again, even if Skunk #1, NL#5, etc, were patented (which they probably couldn't be), their patents would have expired by now.

My biggest fear is when and if cannabis becomes fully legal and big pharma and tobacco co's jump in feet first the first thing they're going to want to do is trade mark cannabis strains.. where will small breeders be at if this were to occur ? Surel they aren't going to have d $$$ needed to pay for use of a trade marked strain in their work and the only one who will be allowed to grow and sell let's just say Newport og will be lorilard ..

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See above. Trademark isn't patent. . .these are different things.

I have ZERO problem with Lorillard trademarking "Newport OG" and being the only one to sell pre-rolled cigarettes under that name. So long as the content genetics aren't patented, anyone else can sell the exact same cigarettes with the exact same buds inside. . .just under a different brand name. Trademarking really only protects brand identity. . .that can be tremendously helpful, but only if there is a brand identity to protect!

One real fear that people have is that like with websites, a few early entrepeneurs will trademark widely recognized strain names, and then either exploit, or even just "squat" on them.

EG, I run to the trademark office and register White Widow, Skunk, Haze, Northern Lights, "OG", "Diesel", "Kush", Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, etc. In fact, this WAS tried, but a Federal judge ruled that illegal cannabis strain names can't hold trademark. Should Federal legalization occur, I'd imagine a similar Judge would rule under existing precedent that names that are already in wide general use like all of the above, can't be trademarked.

Say the of breeders of skunk #1 or the breeder of NLS were able to trademark their strains.. where would we have been in the late 80's and early 90's since these were all the back bone of many a breeding project?

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See above.

Trademarking the names would probably be a GOOD thing, since then you wouldn't have fifty generic "breeders" selling genetically unrelated bunk ceeds called "Skunk" or "Northern lights" as you now do.

I don't think the genetics in question would have been patentable, but bluntly, I'm not even remotely familiar with the case law in this area, so I can't say anything insightful here. What I can say is that I believe that in general patent protection makes better genetics MORE likely, not LESS likely, since it offers protection and support to the best breeders and offers them a stronger incentive to develop successful lines.

eyeball696 said:

Ok ill entertain this one alitttle longer. Explain how. He break into his house or collective? NOBODY owns a plant . What now because I sell black cherry soda clones I should kick back some to subcool?

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can i see the unedited quote?

i respectfully apologize for that post violating rules. i havent read the terms and rules yet... i was like wth, i dont say mate!kiss-asssorry riu...

Sunni is the creator of black cherry soda. Sunni and my mentor(PG) were buddies and he gave him theses. The cut that is floating around is from this stock, bean #18 to be exact.



^^^Blkberry (clone) x BlackCherrySoda(male). These beans are what riot hit me up to trade for. He honestly knew his shit as far as genetics. I know nothing about his business practices, but he was educated and knew origins of strains and history very well.

Sub used a cut of a female pure BCS line. But Sunni has the BCS line in beans.

And Riot uses double purple dojo...an other of sunni's creations. And matt gives him credit.

blissfest said:

Please list all the actual educated "Breeders" that you know of. Breeders that went to college and studied Botany.

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I don't know his exact credentials, but Simon from Serious Se-eds has graduate level training in biology and knows his stuff when it comes to genetics. He's a pretty "serious" breeder, I think.

Not sure where this came from, but in general, breeders of ANYTHING usually don't go to school for it. They pick up some basic genetics knowledge, and then learn from experience.

Remember, people have been breeding cannabis, grapes, wheat, dogs, horses, sheep, and a zillion other things for thousands of years. So that's thousands of years before Darwin was born, and thousands before there even was such a thing as college.

Having a strong background in genetics can be helpful in breeding, but its neither necessary nor sufficient.

Subcool is about as UNEDUCATED a breeder as one can get, he even admits it, which I respect.

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Subcool doesn't have formal education in genetics, but I think he has significant real world experience that informs his strain creation.

Street smarts still count. I think Sub said that he may not know much about breeding, but he knows "dank" when he sees it. . .well, the most important thing is SELECTION, so if he's using his ability to "find dank" to do selections, he can have good results (see above about people breeding for thousands of years before the modern science of genetics).

Its strange that some of you guys look at todays "Breeders" and think they are God like people? Many of these guys started in a closet, Moms basement, a small Cab grow, ect. It would probably surprise you that many may not even graduated from High School.

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Everybody started somewhere, and nobody's first grow was done under a room of 8 1000 watt lights!

IMO, there are a relatively small number of breeders who are very good (that's "good" with two "o"s, not one) and a large number of seedmakers that aren't.

Note that I am making a distinction here between a "breeder" and someone who make ceeds for sale. In my opinion, the two are not the same thing.

In my book, if you're not doing selections, you're not a "breeder", period. Maybe you're a "ceed-maker" or a "crosser" or a "pollen chucker". There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. . .if you start with good parents, and apply a small amount of discipline you can still make good ceeds. . .you're just not really making new strains.

hes a serious breeder.... good post^^^

I agree, a "Breeder" grows out MANY plants and makes selections, then does it again and again.

A pollen chucker seed maker, takes already proven plants and makes S1's or crosses. This isn't work, sure it takes time, but it is a simple process.

The cannabis scene is flooded with pollen chucker seed makers, people buy those seeds like there is no tomorrow.

blissfest said:

I agree, a "Breeder" grows out MANY plants and makes selections, then does it again and again.

A pollen chucker seed maker, takes already proven plants and makes S1's or crosses. This isn't work, sure it takes time, but it is a simple process.

The cannabis scene is flooded with pollen chucker seed makers, people buy those seeds like there is no tomorrow.

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It doesn't even take much time or space to create S1s.

If you hand me a nice rooted clone of a fast maturing strain, I could potentially have S1 seeds in 12 weeks or less.

With minimal veg time to develop plant size, the yield probably won't be much, but if I'm charging $23/bean, I don't need much yield!

Don't forget that not everyone is trying to sell their own genetics. There is a decent business out there selling what amounts to mass-market produced ceeds of generic versions of old inbred standbys like Skunk, Northern Lights, White Widow, etc. You can make these types of ceeds really old school. . .with small plots of open-pollinated outdoor greenhouse grown plants in Spain. There are a bunch of ceed-houses out there that are selling these generic beans under different labels.

On "pollen chuckers" here's the formula:

-Acquire some desirable clone only or "name" strains via gift, purchase, trading, etc.

-Either self-pollinate or cross these strains to create S1 or F1 hybrids. If you want to get real fancy, maybe do a backcross or 1-2 generations of selections.

-Make LOTS of noise promoting the ceeds, emphasizing the scarcity and desirability of the parent genetics, claiming that you're the only one who holds the "real" parents and/or the only one offering these mutts in ceed form, emphasizing how your stuff is better than everyone else's, and generally talking smack.

-Charge top dollar and cash in on the majority of small growers who simply don't understand that simply crossing elite genetics most often doesn't produce new elite genetics.

here's LMFAO !

1) " Clockwork Orange bringing big money at west coast dispensaries, ha…ha….ha… I’ve been to most of them, they don’t even know who you are Matthew Riot. I was foolish enough to buy some of your bird seeds from the Attitude Seedbank, I should have just flushed my money down the toilet. Complete garbage, not the work of a real breeder. BEWARE fellow stoners, this clown is a CROOK "

2) " Well I have been duped!!!! I thought I had found a breeder who was honest and gave a shit. Boy was I wrong!! I have had a 100% FAILURE RATE with Riot Seeds over the course of 2 years starting with a germination rate of the Grape Stompers at around 20% and then male seeds from so called feminized seed stock of the same strain which Matt conveniently blamed on Gage Green. The remaining plants that were actually females ended up hermie and I ain’t talking a nanner here and there!! I couldn’t keep up with all the pollen sacks so they eventually shot their sperm all over themselves and BAM!! SEEDS GALORE!!! So I told Matt about it and he was quick to offer replacements that took 2 weeks to get to me (we are in the same country also). He sent me some Clockwork Orange and some Riotberry OG Kush beans and I was pretty stoked to run both strains since I was still thinking the problems I had with the Grape Stompers was a result of Gage Green breeding carelessly. I tried to germinate 4 each of the Riotberry and the Clockwork Orange and out of all 8 seeds I had 2 pop very tiny and pathetic little tails. I then scuffed and soaked 3 more of each along with 3 White Bubba seeds from another breeder and guess what??? Yep!! Out of the 6 Riot beans only 1 Riotberry opened and popped out another little tail. The rest of the Riot seeds didnt germinate BUT the 3 White Bubba seeds had some gorgeous healthy long white taproots which is what I am used to seeing when I germinate seeds. So as a last ditch effort I threw some Blue Dream Haze and Neville’s Blackberry Haze beans in some paper towelles to try and fill out the rest of my grow tent and out of 3 of each of them only 2 of the Nev Blackberry popped and NONE of the Blue Dreams!! Some SERIOUS germination problems with these seeds!! After 30 days they were showing sex and I found a MALE Nev Blackberry Haze which was advertised as FEMINIZED!!! MORE MALES FROM FEM STOCK!!! So from there the story is simple… I started to flower them and they were looking great till the end of week 3. ONCE AGAIN HERMIES!!!! There was sooo many pollin sacks popping up left and right that once again I couldn’t keep up with them and they ended up shooting their HERM SPERM all over each other and BAM!!! More seeds!!! Out of all the plants there were only 2 that werent hermie…. And they were the ONLY 2 PLANTS THAT WERENT RIOT!! They were the White Bubbas and now they are seeding too from the Riot junk sperming all over my beautiful and INNOCENT White Bubbas!! "


3) " Well its the same here in the emerald isle,got 2 pkts of this evil dudes stuff at the Tude its not there fault my sid v and james bondage very slow growth in veg then 2 of the sid v hermied in 1st week of flower,THE james bondage were all mutant,i should have liostend to the reviews on here and else were i mean this guy has over 30+ reg strains not too mention his feminized shit,,,so how could a methadone head breed that many strains it would take years and years and years,hes releasing strains every week ffs,so if your looking to grow decent puff stay away from mr riot,YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED "

4) " Matt breeds in 4 and 6 inch cups in A 1 BEDROOM APT.I had that sac#3 motheR that the seeds are bieng made of for 120 bucks for nut throwing trash.I threw them in the garbage.It has no buzz but Ill give it one thing ,it sure is pretty,you just cant get high,Go to couchlock and check his breeding skills,the poor boy cant grow a plant let alone breed one.Matt your skills suck,Your main grower(46&2) has (two) grows under his belt of cource you have stolen everyones genetics.Now your trying to F2 and cross all of OGRs gear to sell them on riot seeds.They wanted 5000 a pound for that sac#3 and my 70 year old mom cant get high on it "

5) "I noticed riot seeds websites have disappeared, hopefully its Karma in action!.
as for the fuckwit above who seems to think that anyone who cant germinate riots pollen chucking knock offs is a rookie or in some way incompetent as a grower LMFAO you have been suckered by the latest in a long line of scammers who hold out their greedy paws after hyping up their trash products using retards like yourself. Get a grip and realise you have been scammed like the rest of us and the house of cards is crashing down around your ears."

6) " the fuss is about that fuctard riot misrepresenting his seeds so he can sell more of them you dont get it do you? he is selling seeds an they are not what he says look at sensible seeds listing for Riot Seeds Double Black Doja the picture is of a black russian this is a picture riot used in all his listings until he was caught out by some old school growers who knew the picture was from one of heaths threads you also totally ignore the fact that riot isnt doing any breeding or working on strains he is crossing strains, you might not know but there is a difference .if you want to keep on buying his seeds fair enough but dont attempt to try to justyfy someone who has over 100 strains, uses other breeders pictures and gets seeds and strains given under false pretences you should be ashamed of yourself just like he should riot relys on people like you who dont know what all the fuss is about but the rest of us have come to realise that there is no smoke without fire look around you. you have been had in the worst way"
I have 3 males out of 5 grapestomper s1′s so my way of thinking is riot seeds is a rip off, riot says he hasnt seen anyone else with problems so it must be me"

7) " I feel like such a dumbass for ordering from his site. Don’t be the next dumbass. I really should have checked him out more, before ordering. Lesson learned. I was hoping for some genetics with some real OG Kush in them. Money down the drain. I sent him three messages asking where my seeds where. He cashed the money order in Oct. He told me to fuck off and suck it. Banned from his site, out $ 300 and no seeds. It’s not like I can complain to Western Union for a refund, can I ? "

from heath robinson :


Matthew Riot trying to justify obtaining seeds by deception and conning growers by using pictures from other strains instead of his own, and selling inferior hermi seeds is wearing a bit thin.
To put things in perspective to those who don’t know, over the last 10 years I have been supplying grow information and seeds. In this time I have had lots of requests to supply med clubs and individuals and have supplied seeds to all that have asked.
Riot approached me with the tale that he was a grower for a medical club, he told me the difference with his club was he was doing it for the love of the medical community and the meds and seeds were provided free of charge.
I told Riot I would gladly send him some seeds as he was going to give the seeds away to medical patients for free.
Only later did I discover that Riot Seeds idea of free seeds and meds differed from mine, the main difference being Riots “Free” actually meant paid. And Riot was using my strains (and others) for commercial gain.
If I had sold Riot the seeds that would have been a different story but the fact is that they were freely given by me with the intent for them to be given away to needy patients, Instead of the seeds being given away as agreed Riot seeds decided to profiteer from them.
I decided to put this down to experience and said nothing, that was the case until I noticed that at every seed bank that Riot had his seeds listed on (including his own site) was using my pictures to sell his seeds!. Nowhere in the description did it mention that the images used for the strains for sale weren’t his. In all cases riot had crossed the strain to something else but was showing my strain pictures.
In some cases he was using the wrong pictures and showing a totally different strain altogether. Some of the pictures were taken from my grow threads from 2005!!!
He proceeded to explain this away by saying “Heath takes a better picture than me”! There was no apology to the people who had bought the seeds who thought they were buying the strain depicted in the picture.
I had to contact the seed banks where he had his seeds listed to get them to remove my images. (I have proof)
Matthew Riot is new to breeding in fact he has only been growing a couple of years, I have the posts from the forums where he was asking for advice on taking cuttings and breeding.
None of riot seeds strains are stabilised, quite the opposite in fact, to produce as many strains as they have for sale would have taken a breeder 20 years.
That is one of the reasons why no one can grow out any of their seeds and get a true representation of what they are selling. That is why Riot Seeds offerings have a tendency to be hermaphrodites and that is the reason your feminised seeds have a high percentage of hermaphrodites and males.
In this business you need to bear in mind that if you do it wrong you are fleecing ordinary growers out of their money and time. Even worse you are fleecing ill and terminally ill patients out of money and even worse time.
Riot quotes above “We’re the only seed company donating free seeds to terminally ill patients” well I’m sorry to disappoint you Riot but for the last 10 years I have been giving away totally free seeds to ALL PATIENTS, AND THOUSANDS OF ORDINARY GROWERS, I HAVE NEVER CHARGED FOR A SINGLE SEED
Anyone looking to buy Riot Seeds, please look again! There are plenty of good seed banks out there, don’t waste your money on a seed hacker.
Do a bit of research, look on the grow forums like ICMag Rollitup and Best Seed Bank before buying, there is good reason that Riot seeds has the worst reviews on here and other sites.
Unfortunately in the seed business there are plenty of scammers due to the high profit margins, the time it takes from seed to bud is long and means that seed sellers can have a lucrative business before the growing community realise that they are being sold garbage.
This is what is happening to riot seeds now. There are plenty of growers who were initially singing Riot Seeds praises who now realise they have been sold seeds which are nothing like the descriptions.
Buyer Beware
I can only hope that Karma catches up with Riot sooner rather than later.
Keep it green
Heath

nobody owns the genetics ?
the why did shanti rename all his crosses ?
i mean to change the name of your strains clearly implies ownership.

shanti did the work , you buy seeds , grow them , play with them , and make new strains ...okay i can dig that ...especially if you look at the time shanti has spent in the game vs his catalog of beans.

with girl scout cookies via riot gear & clowns making beans from that stock , are they gonna note the origins ?

even better you gonna grow a few seeds , make some crosses from a very limited selection , & call it done.

^ LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for real !

better to get pollen chuck advice via private chat with riot's beau ....bodhi ... since his namesake is "the enlightened".

& nobody owns the work ?
well not in a legal sense... but 100% totally for sure in an ethical sense.
but , nowadays, its okay to boost genetics AND its okay to gank your friends.

* thieves never stop thieving... & they always have twisted motivations & FAG justifications.

no doubt, a liar & a thief are the same thing to ~gud.

pretty soon people gonna start dissing sannie for making his own jack... which i NEVER see called "jack" ...but ALWAYS "sannie's jack".

^ its name implies OWNERSHIP

^ ^ @ f7 soon to be f8 you mean to tell me its okay to boost that , make seeds , market seeds , sell seeds , without even asking dude ? who owns a biz, has a mortgage, pays taxes, etc ?

NOTHING is gonna keep chucking F.A.Gs from playing breeder & acting like the hard work from another is fair game ...its the fucking norm.

& i'd NEVER buy a single bean made with riot gear.
never. ever. never.

missing out on nothing !

& & shwag cookies gets 50/50 mixed reviews as it is... & i've yet to see a glowing positive review of gsc from seed.

phenotype city ! not really potent ! and low yield ! that's what i've been reading.

if its not the actual cut... you can talk shit all day... cause the punnett square says cookie genetics couldnt be more than 50% at best... & even less if you take riot shwag , cross it to something else , maybe 25% gsc at best.

no basic science class for you ?
fuck a degree in biology that has nothing to do with business , ethics, and common sense.

& & & imo , strictly , people who think gsc is a strain are retarded... its a phenotype of cherry pie x durban.

ow better ask matt riot about its origins , if he's not to busy being a "soul assassin" making records with his buddy B Real.

Jogro said:

Sorry if I put that out there mistakenly. . .that was what I inferred from Eyeballs post.

I was just using it as an example, by the way. I'm not picking on Subcool here, and this could be any cut or line by any breeder.


With due respect, except for the stupidest of new growers, "most growers" can sex their plants just fine.

Everyone with any degree of experience growing knows firsthand what male plants look like, and those who lack it can find out with just a few seconds search on either the internet or any one of a dozen published books on cannabis cultivation available at any bookstore.

On Riot, I didn't call him a thief, just a "pollen chucker".

Some of his genetics are rare. . .some aren't so rare. (eg you can source a cut of Green Crack/Dream Queen at any CA dispensary for a few bucks nowadays). "Rare" doesn't always mean "good".

Yes, Riot is good at getting his hands on cuts of clone only lines, but bluntly that's not as difficult as it once was, due to the groundswell of legal MMJ States and boards like this one. If you make the right contacts, these things can be done.

But trading racehorses isn't the same thing as breeding them.

Again, there is no trick to making an S1 of any clone only line. . .the hardest part of the process is just getting the cut.

In any case, S1s of clone only lines are almost invariably inferior to the original. If it were possible to easily replicate clone only lines into ceed form by self-pollinating them, there simply wouldn't be such a thing as a "clone only line", since anyone with any cut of anything could easily make as many ceeds as they liked and pass them around. Its not just increased tendency for hermies, but also in most cases, significant pheno variation, to the point where no two ceeds from a pack of S1s look like either each other OR the parent clone only plant!

The same is true of F1s between two different clone only lines. There is no breeding skill involved in doing that either, and in most cases, simply crossing two "elite" clones throws off a variety of hybrid plants that are inferior to either parent.

The "trick" there is doing repeated selection and crosses over many generation to isolate and stabilize the desired traits from each of the two parents. That takes quite a bit of skill and hard work, explaining why pollen chuckers like Riot don't offer many beans beyond F1s.

Click to expand...

From growing out my own s1 over the years i have found them to be very uniform pretty much identical to the mother in most cases, im sure others may have different results
while s1 seeds are easy to make they often will produce a plant more like the phenotype desired, than most of the f1s and f2s poly hybrids sold by seed chuckers

quite a few are selling s1, off the top of my head
ograskal the white s1
dr greenthumb ogkush s1 cheese and about 5 other s1's
sick med seeds green crack s1

its seems from reading this type of stuff over the years shanti chimera dj short, nevil maybe even sam the skunk man lol and a few select others, are kind of on a short list as breeders , the rest are pollen chuckers or hackers
i do not think this helps growers much, while it would be easy to compare the breeders of race horses simply on races won
but how do you compare who creates the best plants, when its totally subjective to the end user, its not a "race" or competition

my point has nothing really to do with riot seeds i have no experience of them i have only ever read bad things about Matthew riot
its a good idea to point out the seed sellers that have a poor history with growers so maybe other growers will not be duped
but at the same time, i don't agree with others being idolized , when folk can make good seeds for themselves just as good as the majority of whats on offer from most pollen chuckers
and its these pollen chuckers that make up the bulk of all seed companys
if Matthew riots plants are shit, it is not because they are s1, it is because he does not care about quality and has not fully tested his crosses

peace

i think a better comparison would be music, than race horses, still not the same but closer i think

it would be like saying, only those that can play an instrument read music and write all their own songs and produce all their own albums should be respected
which maybe a fair point, but what if i do not like the type of music this respected musician has created ?
should i be forced to say it is better than the music i enjoy because it was created by a "professional"

a guy with a mic and a mixer, scratching some records like some ghetto 80s hiphop dude is music to some people
it might require much less talent and might take much less time , but what if folk like it ?

should we hate this guy for making easy music, or should we only hate him if he starts making money from it ?
or maybe if he starts making money but is disloyal to his fans ?
at what point should we condemn him as a hacker and plagiarist

again this is nothing to do with riot seeds specifically , just a general thought

peace