Right wing nuts worldwide.

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Have different experience here in CZ. It´s perfectly OK to say populists are a threat to a society, but not that O.K. to say immigrants are dangerous, because of "oh, what would western europeans think of us, we are all eastern post-comunist rasists...".
That just saddens me. I mean, by itself that's a good thing, worrying what other nations might think. Unfortunately, nowadays it's 'normal' to be against immigrants in the west. If you don't say immigrants are bad, you're not going to win more seats in an election in the west. All immigrants, african, arabs, laborers from east europe, even expats from the US, all must be labelled dangerous or just bad.

It's similar to how the US would again lose credibility if Trump would win, western Europeans are in no position to point fingers to east Europeans when it comes to dealing with immigrants. We're not as multiculti and tolerant as we pretended to be or previous generations were. It was more an idea than reality. Nowadays, they're too busy being and electing racists and anti-immigrants themselves. All the way from Scandinavia to Portugal to Italy and Greece.

Next winner of ellections will be Andrej Babiš. He has no real political opinion but is interested only in his money and power. He would easily say "lets take half a milion immigrants here", and the other week, "not a single muslim women", if he gets any profit from that. That´s what populism means for me.
Yeah that seems to be more common with populists nowadays, they don't even try to remain consistent and will say whatever they think will get them votes and a seat.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member

Gave us half a year Rutte extra. Not great, but it's downhill from here on out.

So our far-right populist Wilders won, finally as he sort of took over from the guy that was shot in 2002. But he won't be prime minister. Other parties will help him to a majority on certain issues, including migration but no crazy stuff. It's a bit weird situation, we're trying something new. None of the leaders of the winning coalition (4 parties) will be in the cabinet, they will stay in parliament. PM will be some somewhat neutral strawman we can send to other countries without looking like complete idiots, and at least half ministers will be professionals. Like doctors for Healthcare, university professor for Education, etc. Considering the election results it could be far worse, but it's not good either.

Many, including me, are hopeful for good reasons this cabinet won't last long regardless. Rutte's first cabinet was a minority cabinet with support of PVV (Wilders' party), which collapsed in 2012 after 2 years because Wilders turned out to be unreliable and unable to cooperate. But polls now show new elections would only increase Wilders' share so I guess they will just have to make a mess of it before people see it was a bad decision.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Have different experience here in CZ. It´s perfectly OK to say populists are a threat to a society, but not that O.K. to say immigrants are dangerous, because of "oh, what would western europeans think of us, we are all eastern post-comunist rasists...". No one here is saying we should shot imigrants, except tiny groups of exots with no real power.
Next winner of ellections will be Andrej Babiš. He has no real political opinion but is interested only in his money and power. He would easily say "lets take half a milion immigrants here", and the other week, "not a single muslim women", if he gets any profit from that. That´s what populism means to me.
A lot of people said something similar about Trump in 2016 here in America.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
From scientist to columnist to pundit to minister to unelected Dutch PM...


Prominent member of the left, top level scientist, uni professor, experienced politician, atheist deist, but at least dislikes Christianity. Proposed by Wilders to become the PM of the new most rightwing incl far-right cabinet we ever had. Very likely to be approved by the others (just 1 left, more a formality it seems)

Wut?

"A Dutch scientist, entrepreneur and retired politician of the Labour Party (PvdA, the main party in the left wing, main opposition of far-right). He has earned a PhD degree in biology, specialised in molecular genetics. Worked as a postdoctoral researcher at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California from and at the Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge, England where he conducted research on Caenorhabditis elegans, a nematode used as a model organism. In Cambridge he worked together with British later Nobel laureate John Sulston."

In 2007 Plasterk was appointed as Minister of Education, Culture and Science. In 2012 Minister of Interior and Kingdom Relations.

Became well-known for his columns in the main center-left newspaper and reading sort of columns in a TV show twice a week.


"Plasterk wrote on a wide range of subjects: he is an outspoken atheist. In 1997 he coined the term ietsisme ("somethingism") to refer to the religious belief that the Christian God does not exist, but that there is some greater force that created the universe and governs it. This position is roughly equivalent to 18th century Deism. He first strongly criticized the belief on intellectual grounds, calling it a "poor and irritating phenomenon", but later claimed that it was a mix of atheism and nostalgia, and much more sympathetic "than the idea of a cruel God that wants this misery""
The other three rightwing parties in the cabinet don't want to help make Wilders PM, so by extension also not one of his cronies. It had to be someone somewhat neutral, but experienced as well.

He's still a member of the Labor party on paper but nowadays writes for the rightwing newpaper/gossip rag. Including a few columns negative about his own party, accusing them of being out of touch with the population and not-negative about Wilders. He suggested after the elections the 4 rightwing parties should form a cabinet and have a go at it. So he was appointed scout (by Wilders) for first round of negotiations. With that all Plasterk helped sort of legitimized the option for the initially reluctant other rightwing parties, and undermined the criticism from his own party, the main party on the left.

Contrary to popular belief, our PM has on paper zero power, unlike for example a minister. Rutte's power came from his diplomatic skills and like many of his predecessors was the leader of the largest party. Like I said in previous post, it's now just a strawman. Constitutionally, his job is to maintain unity and get ministers from different departments to agree. Added to that is representing NL in EU Council.

Re: immigration, they will declare an 'asylum crisis' and ask EU for an temporary opt-out and want to introduce border controls again, both against core EU treaties. EU unofficially responded questioning why politicians would propose these plans knowing they are not feasible.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
EU parliament elections next month, where the parties are mostly coalitions of national parties. The (far-)right populists alliance ID, which includes Wilder’s PVV, France‘s Le Pen‘s party and several others, just kicked out AfD, Germany’s still rising far-right party, for being too nazi.



AfD is polling higher in Germany than Scholz’ party when it comes to the number of people they’ll get to supply to the EU parliament.

Meanwhile the liberal alliance in EU parliament is considering to expel Rutte’s party, leading party for years in NL, for forming a coalition nationally with far-right Wilders. Would add that to list of pros of being in EU.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I wonder who I'm going to vote for. The political groups are either socialists, catholics, lunatics or amateurs, and the candidates are the same.
I’m probably going to vote for someone from the Renew group, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renew_Europe, the one that is kicking out our main leading (neo-)liberal party for working with far-right and ending the cordon sanitaire.

They include Volt, which would fall in the “amateurs“ category, and D66, the real democratic liberals in NL. As well as Macron’s party from France, and ANO2011 in Czech Republic. Just as nationally, I tend to vote for a party/group, not a person or puppet. Which person gets the red mark usually depends on a quick look at resumes and watching some interviews but indeed the candidates don’t differ that much. No person who really stands out.

Leader of D66, in a better world would be our pm:


If you want to put French people first, you should put Europe first.
If you want to put Italians first, you should put Europe first.
If you want to put Dutch people first, you should put Europe first.
[…]
Questions of our time:
First: do you wish for green(er) industry, a healthier continent and a cleaner country?
Then put Europe first
If we work together, we can harness the power of the sun in Spain, of water in Scandinavia and the wind power of our North Sea.
We will create European funds to mine, develop and recycle the critical raw materials we desperately need.
And don’t forget: this is the time to heal nature and agriculture.
The soul of Europe is not only in our cities, squares and cathedrals,
but also in our forests, flatlands and hills.
Local food in a healthy landscape – that’s the mission.
No time to waste: let’s end all bio-industry and ban pesticides now!

Second: do you want more money at the end of the month?
Then put Europe first.
Let Europe enforce better pay and conditions.
Let Europe spread child care as a public good to all of Europe, setting people free and sparking economic growth.
We make our money in Europe.
So let’s strike fair and green trade deals around the globe.
This is not a time for complacency, but for ambition!
Not for less, but for more!

Third: do you want a digital world based on your values?
Then put Europe first.
Let’s stop building malfunctioning lie detection systems for migrants,
And start using AI to make wind turbines perform better;
Quit spending public money on algorithms for huge companies,
start using machine-learning to map deforestation;
Let’s use our collective digital power in a positive way.

Fourth: do you have concerns about migration?
Then put Europe first.
The time to make failed deals with dictators is over.
Now is the time to build safe and legal routes
for those rightfully seeking shelter in Europe.
Protect our common European border,
so we can keep our inner borders open.
And let’s be grown-ups: we can each take our fair share of refugees.
Many hands make light work.

And last, most fundamentally: do you want to take away the fear of war?
Then put Europe first.
Give Europe your blessing in June, so we can finally defend ourselves on this great continent!
We can only maintain our individual sovereignty if we guard our collective solidarity.
We spend 240 billion euros on defense, the same as the Chinese, 3 times more than the Russians, and yet we are not capable to defend ourselves.
This is an insult to taxpayers all across Europe and it has to change.
We need a European pillar within NATO that can operate independently if and when needed.
We need a European minister of defense.
We must stop shying away from our own potential strength. We are a peace machine that has entered a war operation. Let’s act like it!”
Full transcript: https://d66.nl/nieuws/speech-rob-jetten-rally-for-europe/

Never was and probably never will be a big fan of EU (it wasn’t created and designed to be so large) but like your country mine is way too small to be not in EU and then if we have to be in it we better make sure it‘s our idea of EU and it does the right thing. It’s slow and half-asses too many subjects.

Do you have Vote Guides/Matchers/Pointers in Czechia? Like this one:


If anything it’s useful to exclude most options.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Change of plans, it’s not going to be Plasterk. He sort of recused himself, after (false) accusations of corruption and the impression of impartiality.

Instead, it’s going to be the head of the CIA. Well, the dutch equivalent that is. Former head of IND (decides which immigrant gets to stay and who doesn’t) and several top positions in different ministries. Not sure if good or bad yet, leaning to good based on some older interviews and quotes the media dug up. He’s not well known, the guy who keeps tellings us there’s a serious chance of a terrorist attack. Like Plasterk but based on full intel access agrees with some views of Wilders (far right leader who won elections), including that we don’t want islam schools (we don’t, they factually sell crap to kids that doesn’t align with western values, that’s not what we meant with freedom of education). Aside from that, made clear he’s not team Wilders. Again, mostly just a straw man, a chairman, nothing like a president or worse, king. Would have preferred Plasterk but same thing: sure as hell beats sending Wilders abroad to represent us.


Schoof, 67, is currently the most senior civil servant in the justice ministry. He has previously headed the counter-terrorism unit NCTV and the immigration service IND as well as the domestic security service AIVD. He was also head of the crisis team in the wake of the downing of MH17.

Not a member of any party.

Schoof, pronounced not skoove but S-clear your throat like you swallowed a fly-oaf. :lol:
 
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