Replacing my drip system. Which way to go?

MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
I am going to replace my drip system with a new system. I love my old drip system but I would like to get rid of as much grow media as possible. My grow tent is 150 x 150 cm and I grow vertical for the moment (2 x 600 watt). HPA and RDWC both look very interesting. I have a green thumb but unfortunately I suck at building things. Many of you fellow growers are very experienced and some of you even grow professionally. What kind of grow system would you recommend if the grow space is limited to a tent and the yield per watt is important?

http://www.iwssystems.co.uk/system.asp?id=55 (Deep water)

http://www.iwssystems.co.uk/system.asp?id=1 (flood and drain)

http://multiponics.com/learn-2/learn-about-high-pressure-aeroponics/ (HPA)
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
Aero/NFT is a party waiting to happen! There's a million ways to modify the concept to fit your space. I love the new Botanicare Kind line of nutrients.
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
StinkBud said:
Aero/NFT is a party waiting to happen! There's a million ways to modify the concept to fit your space. I love the new Botanicare Kind line of nutrients.
Click to expand...
Impressive growth you got on those pictures! Is that one of your perpetual setups for medical strains? Very inspiring! :)
 
StinkBud

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
MikeGanja said:
Impressive growth you got on those pictures! Is that one of your perpetual setups for medical strains? Very inspiring! :)
Click to expand...
Yes this is the new Oregon Special. The front rack only has 4 plants in it.

You can run a perpetual harvest if you want or you can just fill the room and harvest all at once. I've done both.
 
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DWC1000wHPS4x4x8

Member
I think of DWC as the most pure form of hydroponic growing. It gives you the most environmental control with the most buffer from critical failure.

Im not a fan of SOG.

I don't recommend drips incorporated into DWC.

If you have questions for me im happy to pm with you.
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
Aero and DWC are both on my wish list. Both systems have some pros and cons and many growers testifies that they had great results.

It's reassuring to know that you recommend DWC as well as aero. I don't know which one I will start with but I am really looking forward to compare DWC and aero to my drip system. Growing cannabis is addictive. :)
 
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DWC1000wHPS4x4x8

Member
If you accept that DWC and aero are the two chief competitors of the hydro world...

I think the next question is

What can aero do that DWC can't

And what can DWC do that aero can't

Im a DWC guy so I will answer to my experience

In the final phase of flowering using DWC to lower the reservoir level and dehumidify the air to 20% and trick my plant into acting to preserve itself in a simulated drought without actually drying out my plant.

The plant will act to preserve moisture in its all important flowers by encasing them in ... Resin ... Yup hyper active resin gland production in the last two weeks of flowering.

Glorious.
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
nameno said:
I love the drip in my DWC.
Been thinking about aero to start my seeds.
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´
Hi nameno,

Do you use the drippers until the roots reach the solution or do you keep it all the time for extra airiation?

I use Nutricultures aeroponic propagator for my clones. I haven't tried to start from seeds with the propagator yet but I can highly recommend it for clones. It's so simple and absolutely no problems since I started to add some H2O2 to the reservoir. That's one of the reasons why I would like to try aero or DWC.

Btw, nice dog on your profile picture. :)
 
skunkd0c

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
For speed of growth/yield
multi duct/ wide tray NFT is very hard to beat

with these systems the roots grow evenly and spread out flat in all directions into a thin mat
this allows for a greater surface area of evenly organised root mass directly in contact with the shallow stream of nutes 3-5mm depth
keeping the stream shallow and spreading it out over a large surface area also oxygenates the solution further

hydro systems that allow the roots to ball up or grow all over the place or are under deep water are disadvantaged imo as less root surface area is exposed to oxygen/nutes

peace
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
DWC1000wHPS4x4x8 said:
If you accept that DWC and aero are the two chief competitors of the hydro world...

I think the next question is

What can aero do that DWC can't

And what can DWC do that aero can't

Im a DWC guy so I will answer to my experience

In the final phase of flowering using DWC to lower the reservoir level and dehumidify the air to 20% and trick my plant into acting to preserve itself in a simulated drought without actually drying out my plant.

The plant will act to preserve moisture in its all important flowers by encasing them in ... Resin ... Yup hyper active resin gland production in the last two weeks of flowering.

Glorious.
Click to expand...
Aero and nft are the two chief competitors of the hydro world... Lol. I think flood and drain is better then both. I lose power every time there's so much as a stiff wind or a clap of thunder. Both aero and nft... Not even a possibilty.
To the OP, just use a reuseable media.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
You say yourself that you suck at building things. I don't know why you'd want to get an even more complicated system. Aero is fascinating, thought about it myself, but too prone to failure and vulnerable to power outages, or pump failures. NFT isn't that hard but really offers no advantage over any other hydro system and still vulnerable to power outages, pump must run constantly. DWC is simple but many growers, myself included, don't like the idea of aerating the nutrient solution constantly, causes upward pH drift and adds warm air to the reservoir, which isn't ideal either. DWC is another hydro system vulnerable to power outages, air pump must run constantly. If you can't tell I've had issues with power outages before lol. To me flood and drain is as simple as hydro can get, and there's nothing wrong with that. Many growers are still killin' it with their old flood tables. Of course, this is all just my opinion. To each his own. Good luck with whichever direction you decide to grow.
 
D

DWC1000wHPS4x4x8

Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
Aero and nft are the two chief competitors of the hydro world... Lol. I think flood and drain is better then both. I lose power every time there's so much as a stiff wind or a clap of thunder. Both aero and nft... Not even a possibilty.
To the OP, just use a reuseable media.
Click to expand...
When I say aero and DWC are chief competitors im speaking purely on yield statistics.

Flood and drain is an awesome system and when I imagine my dream set up it always includes a 12 inch flood and drain primary grow bed.

The down side is that it's still a soil less system and not true hydroponics and while it is a best of both worlds between the two you still lose some yield in the conversion

But the small comparative yield loss is made up by a whole lot of system stability and buffering against total system failure

Without constant water aero plants die in minutes in greenhouse temperatures at full maturity.

Without constant aeration DWC and NFT plants strip small sized reservoirs of dissolved oxygen in hours at mature size and die off

Without a pump to flood and then drain plants in a flood and drain system still have SOME access to both water and oxygen at all times. They still die off eventually but it can take a week in a well built flood and drain.

That's the real beauty of a flood and drain system ... Built in safety net.

The trade off is less absolute environmental control.

PS if using all natural or organic only products is important to you flood and drain is the ONLY hydro system that functions well with biological in puts.
All other hydroponics need a sterile process and that means processed mineral solutions.
 
DirtyMcCurdy

DirtyMcCurdy

Well-Known Member
DWC1000wHPS4x4x8 said:
When I say aero and DWC are chief competitors im speaking purely on yield statistics.

Flood and drain is an awesome system and when I imagine my dream set up it always includes a 12 inch flood and drain primary grow bed.

The down side is that it's still a soil less system and not true hydroponics and while it is a best of both worlds between the two you still lose some yield in the conversion

But the small comparative yield loss is made up by a whole lot of system stability and buffering against total system failure

Without constant water aero plants die in minutes in greenhouse temperatures at full maturity.

Without constant aeration DWC and NFT plants strip small sized reservoirs of dissolved oxygen in hours at mature size and die off

Without a pump to flood and then drain plants in a flood and drain system still have SOME access to both water and oxygen at all times. They still die off eventually but it can take a week in a well built flood and drain.

That's the real beauty of a flood and drain system ... Built in safety net.

The trade off is less absolute environmental control.

PS if using all natural or organic only products is important to you flood and drain is the ONLY hydro system that functions well with biological in puts.
All other hydroponics need a sterile process and that means processed mineral solutions.
Click to expand...
You make some very valid points
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
skunkd0c said:
For speed of growth/yield
multi duct/ wide tray NFT is very hard to beat

with these systems the roots grow evenly and spread out flat in all directions into a thin mat
this allows for a greater surface area of evenly organised root mass directly in contact with the shallow stream of nutes 3-5mm depth
keeping the stream shallow and spreading it out over a large surface area also oxygenates the solution further

hydro systems that allow the roots to ball up or grow all over the place or are under deep water are disadvantaged imo as less root surface area is exposed to oxygen/nutes

peace
Click to expand...
Skunkd0c: Thank you for your input. Pure NFT is an interesting option. What size of trays do you recommend? My growing area is limited to the grow tent...
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
DirtyMcCurdy said:
You say yourself that you suck at building things. I don't know why you'd want to get an even more complicated system. Aero is fascinating, thought about it myself, but too prone to failure and vulnerable to power outages, or pump failures. NFT isn't that hard but really offers no advantage over any other hydro system and still vulnerable to power outages, pump must run constantly. DWC is simple but many growers, myself included, don't like the idea of aerating the nutrient solution constantly, causes upward pH drift and adds warm air to the reservoir, which isn't ideal either. DWC is another hydro system vulnerable to power outages, air pump must run constantly. If you can't tell I've had issues with power outages before lol. To me flood and drain is as simple as hydro can get, and there's nothing wrong with that. Many growers are still killin' it with their old flood tables. Of course, this is all just my opinion. To each his own. Good luck with whichever direction you decide to grow.
Click to expand...

In my area the electricity goes down only for a few minutes every year so the power outages is not a problem. The risk of technical failures of the pumps is one of the reasons that I grow with a drip system today so I totally agree.

Like you said Aero is fascinating and I like the idea of a grow system with no coco or soil. Easy to clean and no waste to get rid of. :)
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
MikeGanja said:
In my area the electricity goes down only for a few minutes every year so the power outages is not a problem. The risk of technical failures of the pumps is one of the reasons that I grow with a drip system today so I totally agree.

Like you said Aero is fascinating and I like the idea of a grow system with no coco or soil. Easy to clean and no waste to get rid of. :)
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Roots, stems, and foliage. I put mine in nearby apartment complex dumpsters.
 
MikeGanja

MikeGanja

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
Roots, stems, and foliage. I put mine in nearby apartment complex dumpsters.
Click to expand...
I do the same. :) Maybe I am just paranoid but I think that it must look suspicious when I get rid of too much garbage, the coco adds another 120 litres extra to my waste. Do you grow aero or DWC?
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
My vote- and I voted with my dollars, so it counts- is for RDWC.

The recirculating part of RDWC allows for oxygenation, especially since I topfeed which allows the water solution to pick up oxygen as it drains to the waterline.

The topfeed acts a lot like NFT and the big reservoir tub the plant is growing in gives plenty of capacity.

I do actively chill the water to the mid sixties, and that helps reduce the incidence of root rot problems. I haven't had any in years. I am not sure it's even necessary with topfeed, since that beaches the pathogens.

I'm a big fan of RDWC, I love the ability to change everything just by draining the water.
 
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