Religion Poisons Everything

Vindicated

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
OregonMeds said:
Vin I don't believe there ever was a beginning, I have a slightly different opinion than standard big bang theories.

IMHO There are simultaneously an infinite (to us) number of galaxies in various stages of existence filling all areas of space. Think of them as galactic sized cells in a body all floating around, except a body that can't expand in it's entirety because it already fills everywhere. Some cells either must be crushed as others expand or as one shrinks others are pulled and expand to fill the same space.

Never ever a beginning or an end to the whole thing.
Click to expand...
I understand the multiverse theory very well. It's a very interesting hypothesis that is getting a lot of funding right now. I just read Dr. Michio Kaku's Science of the Impossible and boy is it a good read. Byrian Greene is also a big advocate of the multiverse theory (aka string theory / M theory).

If you stop by a barns and nobel pick up any book by Dr. Michio Kaku, you're sure to love it. Greene unfortunately is a bore and you have to be a science nut to appreciate his work -- but if your up to it, its pretty enlightening too.

I also happen to be a Steven Hawking fanboy. Hell, we're talking about a modern day Darwin / Einstein. If you haven't read his book, you don't know shit. He is the standard of scientist thought right now. The only thing that disappoints me about Stephen Hawking is that he's to safe with his opinion. He such a good guy he doesn't want to offend anyone and leaves every possibility open.

It an understandable that point of view, but sometimes I think we need to acknowledge reality and just admit what he know verse what we like to image to be.

String theory is a perfect example of what we want to image. It's so cutting edge that the ideas expressed are practically dogmatic. If you accept string theory / m theory full face right now, IMO your no different then a theist (which isn't a negative, but isn't science either).

I also want to make it clear I wasn't intending to make you sound less credible, but I do feel strongly pointing out fact from personal opinion. You have every right to believe what you will, just please be careful to differentiate what's your opinion verse what's factual.
 
Vindicated

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
I believe that's called the big rip. The big crunch is when the gravity overpowers the dark matter and everything contracts, what you just desrcibed.

I guess we're all nitpickers eh? lol
Click to expand...
Oh you got me. I should have proof read that and caught it. But thank you for correcting me. I really thought i typed big rip, I must have deleted it by mistake.

Bah, embarrassing moment for sure. :)
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Vindicated said:
I understand the multiverse theory very well. It's a very interesting hypothesis that is getting a lot of funding right now. I just read Dr. Michio Kaku's Science of the Impossible and boy is it a good read. Byrian Greene is also a big advocate of the multiverse theory (aka string theory / M theory).

If you stop by a barns and nobel pick up any book by Dr. Michio Kaku, you're sure to love it. Greene unfortunately is a bore and you have to be a science nut to appreciate his work -- but if your up to it, its pretty enlightening too.

I also happen to be a Steven Hawking fanboy. Hell, we're talking about a modern day Darwin / Einstein. If you haven't read his book, you don't know shit. He is the standard of scientist thought right now. The only thing that disappoints me about Stephen Hawking is that he's to safe with his opinion. He such a good guy he doesn't want to offend anyone and leaves every possibility open.

It an understandable that point of view, but sometimes I think we need to acknowledge reality and just admit what he know verse what we like to image to be.

String theory is a perfect example of what we want to image. It's so cutting edge that the ideas expressed are practically dogmatic. If you accept string theory / m theory full face right now, IMO your no different then a theist (which isn't a negative, but isn't science either).

I also want to make it clear I wasn't intending to make you sound less credible, but I do feel strongly pointing out fact from personal opinion. You have every right to believe what you will, just please be careful to differentiate what's your opinion verse what's factual.
Click to expand...
I'm familiar with them all yes, except I have such a horrible memory problem I actually retain very little. Shame really.

Oh and funny thing I didn't read Steven Hawking, I listened to his "voice" tape online. Very interesting. I have been meaning to get to his book.


I don't feel like anything I proposed there really needs to be prefaced with that "it's my opinion", that's just a given due to the subject matter. I feel it's fact I state it as fact but we all know the deal. Well most of us. Ok some of us.
I did add a IMHO on that second post though.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Vindicated said:
Oh you got me. I should have proof read that and caught it. But thank you for correcting me. I really thought i typed big rip, I must have deleted it by mistake.

Bah, embarrassing moment for sure. :)
Click to expand...
No prob. I figured it was just a typo, you got everything else right in your post. :weed:
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
OregonMeds said:
I'm familiar with them all yes, except I have such a horrible memory problem I actually retain very little. Shame really.
Click to expand...
Dude, I have this same problem. Highlighters have become my best friend!
 
S

sunshine1754

Active Member
Vindicated said:
sunshine1754, I think you may have gotten your incorrect facts from a creationist. Only the creationist believe that everything was created in seconds. The rest of us who look at the facts see that it took billions of years. 13.7 billion years to be exact.
Click to expand...
Look mister sister the universe is 13.7 billion years old, you don't think I know that? The further you look out into space the further you look back into time. The bang in the big bang happened in millionths of a second. Thats when the universe grew and got bigger. All the energy everyone is talking about comes from God. Its really very simple, but everyone makes it so complicated. Maybe you are all just new souls and just don't get it. You have all the proof you need. God is in you, just look a little harder.
 
ThaDutchieCouple

ThaDutchieCouple

Member
sunshine1754 said:
So where did everything come from? Science tells us that the universe was created from the Big Bang, which isn't wrong. It took a very short time to happen. Like millionths of a second and everything was created. Everything was born from the consciousness of God. Don't tell me that nothing was sitting there doing nothing and all of a sudden nothing decided to do something to create the universe. The universe is perfect only God could create such a place. Life comes from life, life doesn't come from nothing.
Click to expand...

If god created the universe WHO/WHAT created god?
Was he just sitting there for eternity waiting for a big bang to come so he can create animals and humans to walk the planet, to watch over and guide each and every single one of the humans on this earth? Silliness. Since when is god life? I'm so sick of people like you giving credit to a invisible deity for the wonders of our world. The credit should be given to the WORLD we live in, because its Nature not god who is the one we should worship. But instead everyone (almost everyone) gets the facts wrong, and instead of giving that love to the earth, they give it to something that has no proof of existence, nor does it care if you step out in front of a bus and die because its self will, not gods will that runs your life. Now the earth is almost viewed like a waiting room, trashed and burned like its nothing. People don't care how they treat the planet because their mind is set that there is a better place than here, and the world will be ended by god/jesus any day now... but really you have it wrong, and it should be nature that gets the wonderful treatment god gets not the other way around.
I believe we are all 'god' and its not because a deity is inside of us, its because I am all that I have, and I choose my way in life, and how I want to live, not a god.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
sunshine1754 said:
Look mister sister the universe is 13.7 billion years old, you don't think I know that? The further you look out into space the further you look back into time. The bang in the big bang happened in millionths of a second. Thats when the universe grew and got bigger. All the energy everyone is talking about comes from God. Its really very simple, but everyone makes it so complicated. Maybe you are all just new souls and just don't get it. You have all the proof you need. God is in you, just look a little harder.[/QUOTE]

That's right about where you lost me...

Also, to clarify, yes, the big bang, the expansion that was the starting point of time, happened in millionths of what we would perceive to be a second, but it took many millions more years to form stars. All there was for hundreds of millions of years after that innitial big bang was hydrogen and helium.

Why does finding God always consist of simply "looking harder"? ... Sunshine, if it was really as easy as "looking harder", I'd be a believer. There is nothing to look at, nowhere to look, and nothing to find. God, if such a thing exists, will not be detectable by any of our 5 senses. That's why people have faith.
Click to expand...
 
Vindicated

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
sunshine1754 said:
The bang in the big bang happened in millionths of a second. Thats when the universe grew and got bigger. All the energy everyone is talking about comes from God. Its really very simple
Click to expand...
Saying "God did it" quiet frankly is a cop out. The same argument was raised by the church when Copernacious put the sun at the center of the universe. People said he was wrong and believed sooner or later that someone would prove mathematically that he really was wrong -- that day never came.

Since everyone knew "God did it," anything contrary was a moot issue. After all, why fund research when you already "know" what happened? I'm glade you accept the age of the universe. I was thinking you were a creationist for a moment. However, knowing how "God did it" is a very interesting and worth while discussion.

What's also interesting, is the more we learn about our universe, the further back in chain we end up putting God.

To quote the bible "First God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. "

You can play games of semantics and say heaven ment sky or whatever the hell you want to think. But what we can't deny is the order in which things took place. The bible says Heave and Earth was first. Created in darkness. And then light appeared.

When actually, the exact opposite occurred. First there was the Grand Unification Theory epoch where matter and antimatter first formed and caused a giant explosion of energy. It wasn't until 300,000 years AFTER the initiate start of the explanation of the universe that space became transparent or "dark" -- 1,000 million years later we get the first generation of stars. Then 15,000 million years later we see the first solar system... and eventually Earth.

Even when we ignore time. It still doesn't match the story of Genesis. But who knows, maybe God is a prankster and will someday appear to us all and say "Haha, Gotcha ya bitches!" But until then, I'll stick to facts & reason.
 
S

sunshine1754

Active Member
PadawanBater said:
sunshine1754 said:
Look mister sister the universe is 13.7 billion years old, you don't think I know that? The further you look out into space the further you look back into time. The bang in the big bang happened in millionths of a second. Thats when the universe grew and got bigger. All the energy everyone is talking about comes from God. Its really very simple, but everyone makes it so complicated. Maybe you are all just new souls and just don't get it. You have all the proof you need. God is in you, just look a little harder.[/QUOTE]

That's right about where you lost me...

Also, to clarify, yes, the big bang, the expansion that was the starting point of time, happened in millionths of what we would perceive to be a second, but it took many millions more years to form stars. All there was for hundreds of millions of years after that innitial big bang was hydrogen and helium.

Why does finding God always consist of simply "looking harder"? ... Sunshine, if it was really as easy as "looking harder", I'd be a believer. There is nothing to look at, nowhere to look, and nothing to find. God, if such a thing exists, will not be detectable by any of our 5 senses. That's why people have faith.
Click to expand...
Yes it is not easy!!! You have to look at yourself. It's something you just have to realize on your own, but you have to at least try if you want proof. It takes time, but once you realize it, you will know that God is real. To find God you kind of have to stop paying attention to your 5 senses. The senses are just kind of a delusion. To be honest when I realized God I wasn't even looking for Him, it sort of just happened, but it took a long time for me to figure it out. Not just a month, but a few years. It wasn't just from things I did or thought, but also from other people to, mainly my friends. Every person is apart of God. Regardless of what religion, sex, race, and all of that. Everyone looks in the world to find God, but really He is in people. Not just one person, but everyone. Once you realize that He really does exist in you and every other person you realize that He did create the universe. I mean I'm not posting all of this to force God onto you or anyone else. I'm not like that at all, I'm very accepting of everyone. The reason I'm telling you is because God is good. I know there is stuff in the Bible and stuff that happens today, radical Islam, that makes people turn away from the idea of God, but really God isn't like that. That's just how people act, but if they really had God they wouldn't be like that. The love that you have for friends and family, or the love they have for you stems from God. There was another post about who created God, but that can be answered by my quote at the bottom. Anyways I think I'm done posting. Everyone can think and believe what they would like to, it really doesn't bother me. We each have our own life and everyone is different. So idk everyone have a wonderful day and smoke lots of pot! Well vaporize cause it's healthier.
Click to expand...
 
fish601

fish601

Active Member
ThaDutchieCouple said:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]If god really has power on the world, why do we face poverty, murder, war, flesh eating diseases, cancer, global warming, child abuse, dictatorship, racism and sexism, slavery.. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]:weed::leaf::bigjoint:[/FONT]
Click to expand...

without evil there could be no good.

Its his perfect plan...
you just be your own god, wheres that gona get you?
 
krustofskie

krustofskie

Well-Known Member
fish601 said:
without evil there could be no good.

Its his perfect plan...
you just be your own god, wheres that gona get you?
Click to expand...
good and evil is a man made concept. No god needed for either. We do not get our morals from god, otherwise we would all have the same morals, empathy would better explain why we wouldn't treat others badly.

Where is believing in 'your' god going to get us? The same place as being your own god, that's where, nowhere.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Yes it is not easy!!! You have to look at yourself. It's something you just have to realize on your own, but you have to at least try if you want proof.

What do you think I've been doing for the past (at least) 9 years, and the past 4 of those specifically searching for the best answers I can find, being totally aware of the questions I was looking to answer? Don't give me that. That's not acceptable to me as I've done nothing but try to the best of my ability to search for honest answers to these questions.

To find God you kind of have to stop paying attention to your 5 senses.

Sunshine, I cannot abandon any of my senses, even if I wanted to, neither can you. Everything you experience, everything that makes you up as a person is via your perception of interactions between you, those 5 senses, and the real world. You know what I hear when someone tells me I must abandon the very things I use to determine reality... to determine reality? - "believe me"... not very persuasive.
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
Sunshine if you abandon your 5 senses and rational objective thought you can actually believe in anything and once you really believe you can physically feel it even if it's not there.


I challenge you specifically but all believers to do one single thing. Watch the movie "Letting go of God" by Julia Sweeney all the way through without shutting off any of your senses and actually paying attention the whole way though.

Don't worry, it's a very enjoyable show. Even if you don't agree with a thing in it you will probably actually like it but the reason I suggest it and actually beg you specifically to watch it is so that you will understand where us non believers are actually coming from and how we are thinking and how we came to feel the way we do.

While most of us athiests were raised religious and seen your side plenty the rest of you have absolutely no experience or clue about our side. Unless you were raised athiest and then found religion you really do owe it to yourself and us to at least watch one movie.

Here is a clip to give you an idea what the show is like, but this is early rehearsal and not nearly as good as the actual show on showtime.
If you prefer fullscreen, since it's a long clip use this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtIyx687ytk
Otherwise:
[Youtube]OtIyx687ytk[/Youtube]


I'm sure none of you will watch it, I know I'm wasting my time, but wow I sure wish you would and then tell us what you think after.









If you have cable, it's on Showtime now and for the next couple months.
 
ThaDutchieCouple

ThaDutchieCouple

Member
fish601 said:
without evil there could be no good.

Its his perfect plan...
you just be your own god, wheres that gona get you?
Click to expand...

actually yes without evil, what your left with is good. But there is no good/evil. There is good people who do good things, and bad people who do evil things.
What perfect plan? Maybe there was a little mixup on gods spread sheet for the plan of life, because obviously the world is far from perfect.
I could talk for hours upon hours about how being YOUR OWN GOD will get you more places rather than placing the trump card in the hands of an imaginary deity. I wont waste that much time trying to persuade a deluded mind so ill just state the biggest reason.
Having a mind set "God knows my path, he knows whats right, he will guide me in the right direction" Is detrimental to the process of thought, and individualism. Would i ever put myself in the hands of the unknown and put all my energy into something with no proof of existence, loosing my sanity praying and never getting any results, and if it does so happen to come true is it coinsedence or is it god himself granting your petty human wish? NO i would not. I would much rather put myself first, rely on me, and trust in myself, because in the ends thats all you have.
 
ThaDutchieCouple

ThaDutchieCouple

Member
OregonMeds said:
Sunshine if you abandon your 5 senses and rational objective thought you can actually believe in anything and once you really believe you can physically feel it even if it's not there.


I challenge you specifically but all believers to do one single thing. Watch the movie "Letting go of God" by Julia Sweeney all the way through without shutting off any of your senses and actually paying attention the whole way though.

Don't worry, it's a very enjoyable show. Even if you don't agree with a thing in it you will probably actually like it but the reason I suggest it and actually beg you specifically to watch it is so that you will understand where us non believers are actually coming from and how we are thinking and how we came to feel the way we do.

While most of us athiests were raised religious and seen your side plenty the rest of you have absolutely no experience or clue about our side. Unless you were raised athiest and then found religion you really do owe it to yourself and us to at least watch one movie.

Here is a clip to give you an idea what the show is like, but this is early rehearsal and not nearly as good as the actual show on showtime.


I'm sure none of you will watch it, I know I'm wasting my time, but wow I sure wish you would and then tell us what you think after.









If you have cable, it's on Showtime now and for the next couple months.
Click to expand...

I really liked that video, it was a great story she told, she funny.but at the end i thought her outcome was going to be that she becomes an atheist from all the weird shit those door to door guys were saying to her. Good video though.:clap:
 
potka

potka

Active Member
sunshine1754 said:
So where did everything come from? Science tells us that the universe was created from the Big Bang, which isn't wrong. It took a very short time to happen. Like millionths of a second and everything was created. Everything was born from the consciousness of God. Don't tell me that nothing was sitting there doing nothing and all of a sudden nothing decided to do something to create the universe. The universe is perfect only God could create such a place. Life comes from life, life doesn't come from nothing.
Click to expand...

Then who created god?
or did he just pop up from nothing?
BAM suck on that
 
OregonMeds

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
ThaDutchieCouple said:
I really liked that video, it was a great story she told, she funny.but at the end i thought her outcome was going to be that she becomes an atheist from all the weird shit those door to door guys were saying to her. Good video though.:clap:
Click to expand...
Thanks

Maybe you only watched the clip I linked as a sample and not the full video on showtime. Sounds like it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top