Pruning - When do you take all the leaves off?

Canon

Well-Known Member
Science is such a wonderful thing.
Gives answers to questions using information that is believed to be correct at the time.
As new details are learned, science often changes their stands on topics.
Old truisms like the earth being flat,, earth being the center of the universe and such.

It's so easy to find your own answers on this foliage thing too.
Called "cause & effect".
Just take any one of your plants and find a couple of equally developed branches. Prune one and let the other go.
In the end, you'll see if it seems to work for you the way you grow.
Now don't fall into the pit and think if it worked once, it must be true.
Because all you really have at this point is, an ongoing study.
All my grows are ongoing studies!
I like to think of it as finding a system / style that works best for me. (and I'll not say it's the best, only way, or perfect for all) :peace:

For the record, everything I do on my grows would be considered wrong to someone(s). I grow, I harvest, ...and then I get high - works (LOL).
 
I havent read any replies just want to throw in what I've experienced.The best way to keep fan leaves viable for as long as possible during flower is to use N as the main nutrient the first 1-3 weeks depending on strain.Direct HID light on a flower,especially 1K horties have a tendency to dry out that flower depending on the distance of course.How many of you are like me and find the large "sattellite buds" surrounding the main cola about 8-10 inches below the top of the cola to be a hell of a lot more tasty and potent.My theory is its because they get shaded more than that main cola exposed to 12 hours of direct HID light,no matter the temps.I know my "satellite buds" kicks my cola's ass in taste and quality.Light directly on the flower isnt beneficial,the fans are constructed as to collect as much light as you can throw at it literally.I know sort of rambling lol.Short story direct light on fan leaves great direct light on flowers especially 50 day or so flowers,not so good
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I agree with you. Using fruit trees as the example. A farmer wanting bigger apples in his orchard prunes the flowers, not the leaves. Less flowering sites means bigger fruits as the energy produced has less areas to feed to put it simply. That's how people grow these crazy big pumpkins or any monster sized fruit. Same with our beloved plant. Leaves collect solar power and produce food. Flowers use that solar power to grow. Removing the fan leaves is completely non-productive. So if you want big buds you have to instruct the plant where you want those to be.
Absolutely. I've noticed over the years that those recommending removing leaves are usually noobs who have never grown any kind of plant material before. All commercial fruit producers and to some extent most grape growers thin their crop to improve the quality of that which remains and to promote/preserve the health of the tree.

Where folks go wrong in ALL of the cannabis forums I've read is they focus primarily on the buds while ignoring the plant units that produce them. The hydro industry recognizes this fact, plays the consumer by pumping out rocket fuels and snake oils with catchy product names that contain buzzwords like Snow, Crystal, etc. Quite funny really.

The best way to keep fan leaves, all things considered, is not to abuse high P "bloom foods".

UB
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I take the leaves off when I harvest the plant.

The plant is perfectly capable of dropping any leaf it doesnt need and has been genetically engineered toward perfection through millions of years of evolution. Who am I to fuck with that?
 

mygirls

Medical Marijuana (MOD)
I take the leaves off when I harvest the plant.

The plant is perfectly capable of dropping any leaf it doesnt need and has been genetically engineered toward perfection through millions of years of evolution. Who am I to fuck with that?
tweeking and peeking for a better and bigger yields thats why..
 

420God

Well-Known Member
Topping, fimming, lollipopping, all proven methods of pruning to produce larger yields.

Just don't cut off the leaves.:weed:
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I take the leaves off when I harvest the plant.

The plant is perfectly capable of dropping any leaf it doesnt need and has been genetically engineered toward perfection through millions of years of evolution. Who am I to fuck with that?
Agreed. I use a loupe to inspect most leaves as I'm harvesting. If they contain a good field of trichomes, they stay which is usually only the single leaf bud leaves. I use fine point hand pruners to remove all large fan leaves at harvest as I hang the colas to dry.

UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Let's not get training mixed up with pruning the primary food generator of a plant. You can train without removing leaves. Pruning does not necessarily result in training a plant for the sole purpose of acheiving a new plant profile.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Agreed. I use a loupe to inspect most leaves as I'm harvesting. If they contain a good field of trichomes, they stay which is usually only the single leaf bud leaves. I use fine point hand pruners to remove all large fan leaves at harvest as I hang the colas to dry.

UB
I use a cheap set of magnifying glasses set on a headband. I have magnifications up to 4x. But I find that 2x makes it really easy to trim the leaves on the first pass (I cut the big ones, let dry and then go back and trim them up pretty). The 2nd pass stuff ends up in a hash bag. With the 2x magnification it is easy to see where the trichs end on the leaves.
 

dlively11

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I've noticed over the years that those recommending removing leaves are usually noobs who have never grown any kind of plant material before. All commercial fruit producers and to some extent most grape growers thin their crop to improve the quality of that which remains and to promote/preserve the health of the tree.

Where folks go wrong in ALL of the cannabis forums I've read is they focus primarily on the buds while ignoring the plant units that produce them. The hydro industry recognizes this fact, plays the consumer by pumping out rocket fuels and snake oils with catchy product names that contain buzzwords like Snow, Crystal, etc. Quite funny really.


UB
Yet you consistantly bash and ignore the experienced growers who are growing more bud per square feet then yourself utilizing these methods of leaf removal that defy all botanical facts/science. Its like listening to an old broken record sometimes. You and a few others choose to ignore FACTS. FACT is that removing the right leaves and the right time under certain types of grows will increase yields substantially. You have made it pretty clear you have never even grown a full SOG so clearly you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to leaf removal and this style of growing. I do as do others that have chimed in who remove leaves. The ones that do all have one thing in common, we have much higher then average yields. Mother nature didnt intend for us to cram 60 plants in a 16 square foot area. If you choose to grow in SOG, a proven high yielding stlye, you will need to start removing leaves unless you want to harvest mostly leaf. End of story. I have a 4X8 tray right now with 90 plants on it one week into bloom. It would be very obvious to anyone looking at it that you need to remove leaves in the next couple weeks or half the bud sites will bne totally covered by layers of leaves.

I also find your last comment funny to. No doubt there is a bunch of BS marketing out there but a lot of these things works. "Snow Storm Ultra" fo instance works very vey well in increasing trichomes. Its dirt cheap and very concentrated too. As soon as I started running trays with it it was very obvious and the results speak for themself. Of course people like you will just dismiss the proven results and say it wasnt controlled enough for your standards to prove anything. Gravity also works amazingly well at make buds rock hard.

I know I am wasting my breath on some and certain old dogs cant be taught new tricks . I do think however that there are enough people out there not blinded by their own egos/arrogance to see through all the BS.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I know I am wasting my breath on some and certain old dogs cant be taught new tricks . I do think however that there are enough people out there not blinded by their own egos/arrogance to see through all the BS.
There are no "new" tricks....just recycled ones that come with every new crop of newbies.

you will need to start removing leaves unless you want to harvest mostly leaf. End of story.
Thanks for the laugh.

No doubt there is a bunch of BS marketing out there but a lot of these things works. "Snow Storm Ultra" fo instance works very vey well in increasing trichomes.
Ya think? And just how "very vey well" does it work? :D

Nah sah.....it's the same old, predictable marketing bullshit:

Snow Storm Ultra:

Emerald Triangle, the maker of Humboldt County's Own nutrients, has separated Snow Storm from the original Purple Maxx product and supercharged it to create Snow Storm Ultra. Because of its high potassium level, Humboldt County's Own Snow Storm Ultra is ideal for increasing the essential oil levels in plants.
When you want enhanced flower and fruit aroma and flavor, Snow Storm Ultra is a good choice.

They separated it for the money. Why have one all-in-one product when you can bilk some fool by selling him 2 bottles of snake oil? The only thing that is now supercharged is the vendors pocket hehe. It's all a big lie...this crap is nothing more than overpriced, VERY watered down potassium hydroxide in solution. A whoppin' 0-0-3%, for ONLY $26.00/quart????? You just bought yourself a quart of water for $26.00 LOL! What little hydroxide it contains is gonna raise your pH too.... just what every hydro grower needs. :D Also, the Humboldt tards wouldn't know the first thing about the negative affects of too much K on plant health (leaf retention), not that they care. Oops, there goes your N, Ca, and Mg! http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm Like all hydro vendors....they're only in it for the money.

Potassium is found in any decent plant food being one of the macros required by all plants. Sure as hell won't have any affect on the production of trichomes. Trichome production is genetically driven provided the grower has enough leaves to produce the required simple and complex carbos for flower/trichome development. Sad that most growers get their "knowledge" from snake oil salesmen. It's popular ya know. ;)

UB
 

findme

Well-Known Member
you will need to start removing leaves unless you want to harvest mostly leaf. End of story.
lol.. did he really just say this? I'm just gonna leave the rest alone because he is clearly a noob.

Here is what I do. I pinch my plants ( as it seems to create stronger stems) but... from now on ill be topping them also because uncle ben has given me an idea. After you top your plants, you can use the top by putting it into a cloner to find out the sex of the plant faster or if you already know the sex, you do whatever with it. make it a mother plant to make future clones,seed production,etc..

but back to how I handle my harvest. I harvest the buds that are ready and I leave the other buds on the plant until they are ready. I'm not one for harvesting the whole plant at one time because as we all know, you end up with popcorn buds or buds that aren't fully matured. so... I leave those buds on the plant for another week or two until they are matured and then cut them off thus, getting the most out of my plant.

I believe that this type of harvest is the best because it also follows the theme of the "fruit tree analogy". By cutting off the flowers of the matured bud, you end up allowing the smaller imature buds, to become bigger buds thus eliminating the popcorn buds. now.. I'm going to go vape for a little while (: .
 

1oldgoat

Well-Known Member
I cut my leaves a day or two, sometimes 3, right before harvest, especially when giving them extra darkness time. Helps with the trimming and rather than maintaing the leaves, any extra sugars will be moved into the bud.
I'm petty sure there won't be any extra sugar. How could there be with less foliage?
 

OZUT

Active Member
These just get better and better....

Exactly what extra sugars will go into the bud by removing the leaves 3 days before harvest?
 

ghb

Well-Known Member
dead leaves can attract nasty things, sometimes they dont always fall off and just hang about in the middle of the canopy. i remove all dirty looking leaves in the hope that the plant will not waste any energy trying to repair them.


also i love snake oil.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Yet you consistantly bash and ignore the experienced growers who are growing more bud per square feet then yourself utilizing these methods of leaf removal that defy all botanical facts/science. Its like listening to an old broken record sometimes. You and a few others choose to ignore FACTS. FACT is that removing the right leaves and the right time under certain types of grows will increase yields substantially. You have made it pretty clear you have never even grown a full SOG so clearly you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to leaf removal and this style of growing. I do as do others that have chimed in who remove leaves. The ones that do all have one thing in common, we have much higher then average yields. Mother nature didnt intend for us to cram 60 plants in a 16 square foot area. If you choose to grow in SOG, a proven high yielding stlye, you will need to start removing leaves unless you want to harvest mostly leaf. End of story. I have a 4X8 tray right now with 90 plants on it one week into bloom. It would be very obvious to anyone looking at it that you need to remove leaves in the next couple weeks or half the bud sites will bne totally covered by layers of leaves.

I also find your last comment funny to. No doubt there is a bunch of BS marketing out there but a lot of these things works. "Snow Storm Ultra" fo instance works very vey well in increasing trichomes. Its dirt cheap and very concentrated too. As soon as I started running trays with it it was very obvious and the results speak for themself. Of course people like you will just dismiss the proven results and say it wasnt controlled enough for your standards to prove anything. Gravity also works amazingly well at make buds rock hard.

I know I am wasting my breath on some and certain old dogs cant be taught new tricks . I do think however that there are enough people out there not blinded by their own egos/arrogance to see through all the BS.


I do not recommend removing ANY healthy or mostly healthy fan leaves during ANY phase of the plants growth.

Doing so only inhibits the plants growth. This is scientific fact... and NOT just an opinion.

Plants leaves use different types of chlorophyll, the two main types of chlorophyll are simply named A and B. They are used to process photo-active light along with the nutrients and fluid absorbed through the roots to produce cellular growth. No where else on the plant are the different types of chlorophyll required to complete this process present. They can only be found in the leaves.

The chlorophyll inside the stalks and calyxs are merely the cellular building blocks. They can be considered the structural cells. These cells make up the majority of the plants structure but do little (basically nothing) to aid in energy production and cellular growth. These cells are the cells created by the different types of chlorophyll cells in the leaves and the nutrients absorbed through the roots.

The leaves can basically be considered factories for carbohydrate production and warehouses for storage of the carbohydrates for a plant. They process the light and create food for growth. No where else on the plant does this happen other than to a very minor and highly inefficient degree. If you remove the plants ability to carry out this process, in any amount, it will inhibit the plants growth. This can easily be proved by removing ALL of the leaves from the plant. The coinciding result of this is death.

The calyxs and stalks of the plant process photo-active light energy only in a very minor way, to a far less efficient degree. Only the leaves carry out that process in full and with total efficiency. So ensuring that the "buds" get more light does absolutely nothing. That's kind of like saying, if you rip off all the leaves on a Rose bush but leave the flowers on it, the flowers will get bigger because they get more light... It simply doesn't make sense and is technically biologically impossible. Cannabis is merely an annual flower. The calyxs (flowers, buds) require the leaves and roots to create the food for the cellular growth to take place. That is a scientifically proven fact that will never be proven to be incorrect by some little clown shoe simply observing their basement grow and thinking that something might or will work better than what thousands and thousands of years of evolution came up with.

Also, as a plant grows, the leaves and root system grow together in unison, they strive for a 50/50 ratio in mass between the above soil portion of the plant and the below soil portion of the plant. They support each other in a required methodology to continue growing.

If you remove any amount of the leaves the plants growth will slow as it becomes aware that food production has become unbalanced. What happens is simple, it grows more leaves to compensate and catch up to the root system. This reaction however, halts all the other growth as the plant focuses it's energy to create more leaves so it can regain it's ability to sustain itself and resume normal growth. Obviously how severe this process affects the plants overall growth depends solely on how much leaf matter is removed.

Consider other functions of the leaf. Consider the importance of the stoma (pl. stomata) A stomata is a microscopic pore on the surface (epidermis) of land plants. It is surrounded by a pair of specialized epidermal cells called guard cells, which act as a turgor-driven valve that open and close the pores in response to given environmental conditions. The presence of countless numbers of stomata is critical for plant function.

Typically, the plant epidermis is tightly sealed by wax-coated, interlocking epidermal pavement cells, which protect the plant body from the dry atmosphere and UV-rays. At the same time plants must be able to breathe, or exchange carbon dioxide and oxygen, for photosynthesis and respiration.

Stomata act as a gateway for efficient gas exchange and water movement from the roots through the vasculature to the atmosphere. Transpiration via stomata supplies water and minerals to the entire plant system. When a plant encounters adverse environmental conditions, such as drought, a plant hormone called abscisic acid triggers stomata to shut tightly in order to prevent plants from dehydration and wilting.

Remove fan leaves and you have cut off the efficient, exchange of gasses, which is vitally important to healthy plant growth and full plant production.

I'm sorry but removing healthy leaves from plants just doesn't seem like a good idea when you look at the science of how a plant functions... Not to mention there is absolutely zero SCIENTIFIC evidence that removing leaves to expose "bud sites" to more light increases their size or weight. All the current scientific information suggests exactly the opposite... all their is on the other side of the argument is personal opinion and personal belief and neither come within light years of being scientifically proven fact, even though some here, like the one I am replying to claim it to be "fact."

When it comes to increasing the number of trichomes and the amount of resin they produce, keep your humidity low in flower and add UV-B lighting rather than waste your money on snake-oils that are mostly water. In nature, where these plants evolved, most strains with the highest number of trichomes per inch or centimeter or whatever unit if measurement you wish to use, and with the most resin per trichome head grow in areas of low humidity and high UV-B lighting. Both conditions are naturally harmful to plants of all types so through thousands and thousands of years of evolution plants developed ways to protect themselves from such conditions and what they do is precisely what we want them to do given our use of them.

Do your best to create conditions, a growing environment, that will make plants grow that way, the way their genetic coding will cause them to grow the very best they possibly can, which is also the way we most want them to grow, and the results will be the very best the plants will ever be capable of achieving.

Use their thousands and thousands of years of evolution and genetic coding to your advantage rather than attempt to fight it, to overcome it, to reverse it and to attempt to force plants to grow in a totally unnatural way that will only assure they will will never be capable of reaching their full potential.
 
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