Prop 19 Backers Eye 2012 Medical Marijuana Initiative

Ernst · Oct 27, 2011

Prop 19 Backers Eye 2012 Medical Marijuana Initiative

http://cannabis.hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/10/26/prop-19-backers-eye-2012-medical-marijuana-initiative/

It looks like there is political life in the Prop 19'ers this year after all unfortunately they are only looking out for Canna-business this time.

A budding coalition of medical marijuana reform backers, including some of the same folks behind last year's Proposition 19, is working on an initiative for the 2012 ballot that would impose statewide regulation on California's crazy-quilt medical marijuana dispensary scene. The announcement came during a San Francisco press conference Tuesday preceding a demonstration during a visit to the city by President Obama.

"We need statewide regulation," said Dale Sky Jones, spokeswoman for last year's Prop 19 campaign and for the organization's current incarnation, the California Coalition for Cannabis Reform. "We are working on a regulatory framework for 2012, but it's still being drafted. Many Prop 19 supporters back this."

It's not just Prop 19 supporters, added Steve De Angelo, proprietor of Harborside Health Center, Oakland's largest dispensary -- which is now under attack by the IRS as part of the new federal offensive against medical marijuana distribution. "There is a broad based recognition that it's time for state regulation," he said.

United Food and Commercial Workers Local 5 is also behind the effort. "We will speak to the specifics of the initiative within a couple of weeks," said the union's Cannabis Division Coordinator, Matthew Witemeyer.

Dan Kone · Oct 27, 2011

Ernst said:
It looks like there is political life in the Prop 19'ers this year after all unfortunately they are only looking out for Canna-business this time.

What in the new law they are proposing leads you to believe it will screw over people and only look out for business?

Why do you think the legalization interests of people and cannabis businesses are mutually exclusive? Why not have both?

ford442 · Oct 27, 2011

let's all have less of this - http://news.yahoo.com/pa-boy-13-ill-smoking-synthetic-pot-dies-190654392.html
if pot were legal then there would be no need for untested pot substitutes..

Ernst · Oct 28, 2011

Dan Kone said:
What in the new law they are proposing leads you to believe it will screw over people and only look out for business?

Why do you think the legalization interests of people and cannabis businesses are mutually exclusive? Why not have both?

Look Dan you know the answers to your questions already.

I know it pisses you off and you couldn't budge on your position even if someone lit a stick of dynamite under your butt. I get it so move on friend.

For other readers the reason I support the idea that we may have to split up the goals of complete legalization is because we fail to pass full legalization. We may have to split it up into stages to get all the things we want passed.
I promote focusing on rights for the people first to Grow, use and trade in non-commercial ways.

Others see the people as something that will have rights that work well for a business model such as limited production, no rights to tests positive on the job and certainly no rights to trade cannabis with friends.

So once again I am promoting my agenda when this was a thread about what the motivates the Prop 19 people.

Dan Kone · Oct 28, 2011

Ernst said:
Look Dan you know the answers to your questions already.

No, you really haven't. Please tell me why you are drawing the conclusion that legalization the sale and commercial growing of cannabis hurts the average cannabis user who btw prefers to buy their cannabis from legal businesses. Collectives reported taking in 2 billion dollars last year. That doesn't happen if people don't prefer the collective business model to black market dealing.

I know it pisses you off and you couldn't budge on your position even if someone lit a stick of dynamite under your butt. I get it so move on friend.

That's really not helpful in any way. Instead of typing nonsense like that you could have just answered my question.

And no, I won't move on as long as you're pushing an agenda based on false assumptions. If I'm wrong, and it is not a false assumption, then you can explain why.

For other readers the reason I support the idea that we may have to split up the goals of complete legalization is because we fail to pass full legalization. We may have to split it up into stages to get all the things we want passed.

Why the assumption that the taxes and jobs created by legalizing sales is the reason legalization doesn't pass?

I promote focusing on rights for the people first to Grow, use and trade in non-commercial ways.

Translation: I want to return to the black market dealing for cannabis commerce. That's what you mean by "trade in non-commercial ways" right?

Why do you think the majority of Californian's would prefer cannabis to be traded on the black market rather than through legal businesses that pay taxes and employ people?

Others see the people as something that will have rights that work well for a business model such as limited production, no rights to tests positive on the job and certainly no rights to trade cannabis with friends.

I don't know of anyone who wants to limit growing. Just separate commercial growing from commercial growing. What's so bad about that? If you're growing commercially why shouldn't you have to pay taxes just like any other business in America?

So once again I am promoting my agenda when this was a thread about what the motivates the Prop 19 people.

I just don't understand how you can oppose a legalization bill that hasn't even been written yet.

Ernst · Oct 29, 2011

Dan Kone said:
No, you really haven't. Please tell me why you are drawing the conclusion that legalization the sale and commercial growing of cannabis hurts the average cannabis user who btw prefers to buy their cannabis from legal businesses. Collectives reported taking in 2 billion dollars last year. That doesn't happen if people don't prefer the collective business model to black market dealing.

That's really not helpful in any way. Instead of typing nonsense like that you could have just answered my question.

And no, I won't move on as long as you're pushing an agenda based on false assumptions. If I'm wrong, and it is not a false assumption, then you can explain why.

Why the assumption that the taxes and jobs created by legalizing sales is the reason legalization doesn't pass?

Translation: I want to return to the black market dealing for cannabis commerce. That's what you mean by "trade in non-commercial ways" right?

Why do you think the majority of Californian's would prefer cannabis to be traded on the black market rather than through legal businesses that pay taxes and employ people?

I don't know of anyone who wants to limit growing. Just separate commercial growing from commercial growing. What's so bad about that? If you're growing commercially why shouldn't you have to pay taxes just like any other business in America?

I just don't understand how you can oppose a legalization bill that hasn't even been written yet.

Damn.. I must make your day...

I just don't understand how you can oppose a legalization bill that hasn't even been written yet.

Manufactured BullShit.

I don't know of anyone who wants to limit growing. Just separate commercial growing from commercial growing. What's so bad about that? If you're growing commercially why shouldn't you have to pay taxes just like any other business in America.

The Federal issue is the reason. Are you limited?

Translation: I want to return to the black market dealing for cannabis commerce. That's what you mean by "trade in non-commercial ways" right?

Why do you think the majority of Californian's would prefer cannabis to be traded on the black market rather than through legal businesses that pay taxes and employ people?

The Black Market has never gone away.

Your post seems moronic.

Why the assumption that the taxes and jobs created by legalizing sales is the reason legalization doesn't pass?

If we could only understand you.

That's really not helpful in any way. Instead of typing nonsense like that you could have just answered my question.

And no, I won't move on as long as you're pushing an agenda based on false assumptions. If I'm wrong, and it is not a false assumption, then you can explain why.

Oh so you are drawn to me like a moth to a flame.? Do I turn you on?

No, you really haven't. Please tell me why you are drawing the conclusion that legalization the sale and commercial growing of cannabis hurts the average cannabis user who btw prefers to buy their cannabis from legal businesses. Collectives reported taking in 2 billion dollars last year. That doesn't happen if people don't prefer the collective business model to black market dealing.

We have had many conversations in threads on various topics and aspects of topics. There is no reasonable way to know which of these conversations you are referencing.

For the record once again I am not against having Commerce. I am for splitting up the voting points into separate stages so we can get a majority vote.

Where I feel you take offence is that you cling to the all or nothing strategy.

I would have us do a "people first" in 2014 and I assume you will still be saying we have to have commerce or nothing in 2014.

So who cares? Maybe 2012 is your lucky year and you can say "see I was right" or not.

So is that clear to you? I say split things up so we can win and I say let the people have the right to grow, use and trade!

Dan Kone · Oct 29, 2011

When I asked you how you could be against a legalization bill that hasn't been written yet you're response was "manufactured bullshit". What does that even mean? Where you implying that I am wrong? Is the bill written? If it is can you post a link to it so we can see?

The Federal issue is the reason. Are you limited?

Yes. I'm limited to 99 plants, but that doesn't mean shit to me. To any experienced grower a plant limit like that is a joke. You can grow a whole lot of bud if you've got a greenhouse containing 99 plants in 200 gallon smart pots you can grow a hell of a lot of bud.

The Black Market has never gone away.

That's true. The black market still exists. But more and more people decide they prefer the collective model where they've got real product choices rather than just accepting what ever their black market dealer gives them. Not many black market dealers are going to give you a choice between 40 strains, a variety of edibles, concentrates, clones, etc. People like that. The 2 billion dollars in sales the dispensaries did last year proves that.

Your post seems moronic.

Is that really necessary? Why not just stick to the topic? How are you going to expect people to support what you're trying to do when you call people names for asking any questions? That isn't helping your cause.

Oh so you are drawn to me like a moth to a flame.? Do I turn you on?

I understand you're frustrated that I'm asking you questions that can't be answered, but these are important questions that should be asked. Calling me names doesn't make the flaws in your logic go away.

For the record once again I am not against having Commerce. I am for splitting up the voting points into separate stages so we can get a majority vote.

That's not what you're doing at all. You aren't splitting anything up. And no, you aren't against commerce. You're advocating the legalization of a specific type of commerce. You want legalized black market dealing. So no, that isn't splitting it up. You're addressing commerce. Just your own version of it.

Unfortunately legalizing black market dealing will never pass. If it got on the ballot they'd run TV ads showing how this would help drug cartels, and they'd be correct. The only people who prefer a legalized black market to legitimate businesses are cops and black market dealers. I know that may be what works best for you, but most other people prefer legal businesses.

Prop 19 Backers Eye 2012 Medical Marijuana Initiative

Ernst

Well-Known Member

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member

ford442

Well-Known Member

Ernst

Well-Known Member

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member

Ernst

Well-Known Member

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member