Police Interactions.

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
So this post changed for me after the second video, I don't really have a point to it now other than how scary it is when you give people power over others. I have no ill will towards the police, but they do scare the crap out of me, always have. I have never been in any altercation with one, and as soon as it is obvious I am going to be pulled over, I pull over get everything out on the dash, and put my hands on the steering wheel. I did once have to talk to a cop who pulled my neighbors teenage kid over and ended up with him being in back of the car outside his house because of a expired plate, which sucked that the kid was put through that.

https://apnews.com/2bd427f8a7c0442196210fb371f2473e/gallery/14af210a36a04caf8f33395be69a2011

This guy must feel like a real man.

Anyways.....

I was going to make the post about that, but then this video popped up. It is nuts.

 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
as soon as it is obvious I am going to be pulled over, I pull over get everything out on the dash, and put my hands on the steering wheel.
good advice. Man, the things your dads have to teach you as kids living in the city huh?

You're right that it's absolutely terrifying that the police have near absolute power over you, but coming from a perspective where I have seen lots of police injustice I support them over the criminals any day. I would rather 10 innocent people get hurt than let 100 criminals get away with what they do.

The second video lost me when it tried to make it about race. We can't know the situation without knowing what had happened there before, whether the area is predominantly white, what is the predominant style of dress, whether they had break ins with someone matching his description or not, etc.

I have had similar happen to me, many of my friends have as well. Once I was arrested on my street outside my house because the police thought I was someone else fleeing from a robbery. Wasted two hours of my time hancuffed sitting in the rain on a curb, but I never escalated things like this guy and the cops were pretty nice about it in the end, they are people just trying to do their jobs after all. IMO the trash guy was in the wrong, 100%. The cop was even right to keep his hand on his gun when dealing with another agitated man, he doesn't know what could happen.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
good advice. Man, the things your dads have to teach you as kids living in the city huh?

You're right that it's absolutely terrifying that the police have near absolute power over you, but coming from a perspective where I have seen lots of police injustice I support them over the criminals any day. I would rather 10 innocent people get hurt than let 100 criminals get away with what they do.

The second video lost me when it tried to make it about race. We can't know the situation without knowing what had happened there before, whether the area is predominantly white, what is the predominant style of dress, whether they had break ins with someone matching his description or not, etc.

I have had similar happen to me, many of my friends have as well. Once I was arrested on my street outside my house because the police thought I was someone else fleeing from a robbery. Wasted two hours of my time hancuffed sitting in the rain on a curb, but I never escalated things like this guy and the cops were pretty nice about it in the end, they are people just trying to do their jobs after all. IMO the trash guy was in the wrong, 100%. The cop was even right to keep his hand on his gun when dealing with another agitated man, he doesn't know what could happen.
Good point about him needing to calm down and suck it up. I was with the kid picking up trash up until the point he lost his shit and started pointing the trash grippers like a tough guy though, picking up trash after sitting on his deck would be enough to not be sure how I would react if I was caught off guard. It might have worked out better if he would have kept walking away and just went into his apartment and grabbed a letter/picture to show its his instead of keeping picking up garbage.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
So this post changed for me after the second video, I don't really have a point to it now other than how scary it is when you give people power over others. I have no ill will towards the police, but they do scare the crap out of me, always have. I have never been in any altercation with one, and as soon as it is obvious I am going to be pulled over, I pull over get everything out on the dash, and put my hands on the steering wheel. I did once have to talk to a cop who pulled my neighbors teenage kid over and ended up with him being in back of the car outside his house because of a expired plate, which sucked that the kid was put through that.

https://apnews.com/2bd427f8a7c0442196210fb371f2473e/gallery/14af210a36a04caf8f33395be69a2011

This guy must feel like a real man.

Anyways.....

I was going to make the post about that, but then this video popped up. It is nuts.

The INTERNAL investigation concluded that there was no racial bias but this happened in Boulder, Colorado, an extremely white and affluent town. I'm not buying the no bias finding for a second. I sure hope that body camera footage got the student a nice fat settlement from the city. God knows they can afford it.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
good advice. Man, the things your dads have to teach you as kids living in the city huh?

You're right that it's absolutely terrifying that the police have near absolute power over you, but coming from a perspective where I have seen lots of police injustice I support them over the criminals any day. I would rather 10 innocent people get hurt than let 100 criminals get away with what they do.

The second video lost me when it tried to make it about race. We can't know the situation without knowing what had happened there before, whether the area is predominantly white, what is the predominant style of dress, whether they had break ins with someone matching his description or not, etc.

I have had similar happen to me, many of my friends have as well. Once I was arrested on my street outside my house because the police thought I was someone else fleeing from a robbery. Wasted two hours of my time hancuffed sitting in the rain on a curb, but I never escalated things like this guy and the cops were pretty nice about it in the end, they are people just trying to do their jobs after all. IMO the trash guy was in the wrong, 100%. The cop was even right to keep his hand on his gun when dealing with another agitated man, he doesn't know what could happen.
The officer violated several policies, nevermind the man's rights.

Suck cop much?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Good point about him needing to calm down and suck it up. I was with the kid picking up trash up until the point he lost his shit and started pointing the trash grippers like a tough guy though, picking up trash after sitting on his deck would be enough to not be sure how I would react if I was caught off guard. It might have worked out better if he would have kept walking away and just went into his apartment and grabbed a letter/picture to show its his instead of keeping picking up garbage.
No.

The man had explained himself and there was no crime being committed.

The cop went too far- and I'm very sure it was because the student wasn't white.

If you've ever been to Boulder, you'll understand.

Too bad that fucking punk cop will get paid for another 18 months or more after resigning over this.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile the gun nuts constantly talk about cold dead hands as if they would kill police if they're ordered to confiscate firearms.

Gun nuts and even mass shooting terrorists are regularly captured intact.
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
The officer violated several policies
yeah, so? life is messy and people make mistakes.

nevermind the man's rights
the man failed to have any rights the second he was 'detained' as per the cop telling him that

You claim racial bias yet admit he's out of place in a white neighbourhood. That's not bias, it's good policing, looking out for what might be out of place then checking up on it.

You claim that the mans word should be enough, what if he was jigging a car window and said 'oh it's my car', would that be enough? Criminals always have alibis, picking up trash is a pretty sweet one. People that push for concessions to criminals are usually criminals themselves. Just saying.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
yeah, so? life is messy and people make mistakes.


the man failed to have any rights the second he was 'detained' as per the cop telling him that

You claim racial bias yet admit he's out of place in a white neighbourhood. That's not bias, it's good policing, looking out for what might be out of place then checking up on it.

You claim that the mans word should be enough, what if he was jigging a car window and said 'oh it's my car', would that be enough? Criminals always have alibis, picking up trash is a pretty sweet one. People that push for concessions to criminals are usually criminals themselves. Just saying.
Police derive their pay thru legal, but criminal acts. They are a symptom of the fawning belief in "authority". At a minimum, the trash picking up guy deserves an apology.

The fact that police derive their pay from criminal acts, negates any possibility that what they do could be described as "good policing". That would be like a rapist wiping his feet on your door mat before breaking in, to anally accost you, and then hailing the rapist as "polite and well mannered".
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
We are in agreement here.


While I largely agree re speeding, no stickers, etc. This wasn't going to some ticket count, I think the cop genuinely wanted to prevent crime in that neighbourhood.
I appreciate your polite presentation of your point of view.

However as I alluded to earlier, Police aren't interested in preventing actual crime, they enforce laws, (sometimes) which is a different thing than preventing actual crimes.

Police derive their pay thru acts which would be real crimes if you or did the same things. Which means a person would need to grant an exception to those acts when some other people, "authorities", do those acts. In other words, there is a contradiction and people are trained to believe what they are told and not to believe in reality.

Police are people who commit criminal acts, that is irrefutable.
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
Police are people who commit criminal acts, that is irrefutable.
If no one will stop (detain, imprison, restrict the freedom of mobility, possibly with the use of force) any criminals then who will? what will become of society?

sry for the short reply because I'm on my way out, and still half playing devils advocate beccause I do believe other power structures will work for keeping society running but there will always be a power structure and the one we have is p. good compared to many other examples.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
If no one will stop (detain, imprison, restrict the freedom of mobility, possibly with the use of force) any criminals then who will? what will become of society?

sry for the short reply because I'm on my way out, and still half playing devils advocate beccause I do believe other power structures will work for keeping society running but there will always be a power structure and the one we have is p. good compared to many other examples.
When the belief that people in "authority" should be exempt from responsibility for criminal acts ends, the solutions will be there AND society will prosper.

As long as there is an offensive force based power structure, society is stuck in a primal state.
Comparing one set of masters to another and picking the least worst of the lot is not the solution.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The INTERNAL investigation concluded that there was no racial bias but this happened in Boulder, Colorado, an extremely white and affluent town. I'm not buying the no bias finding for a second. I sure hope that body camera footage got the student a nice fat settlement from the city. God knows they can afford it.
I appreciate your sentiment, but wouldn't it be more just if any settlement didn't come from the tax slaves and came from the cop(s) themselves ?

Where is the incentive for a cop to stop being a douche if tax slaves are forced to pay his bills for his douchiness ?
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
long as there is an offensive force based power structure, society is stuck in a primal state.
Sadly I don't see us moving past a force based solution for making everybody play nice together. Some people are bad people and we need to accept that reality and work within it.

wouldn't it be more just if any settlement didn't come from the tax slaves and came from the cop(s) themselves ?
Daaamn, that's deep.

But aren't we then looking to more gang like situation where they are in more charge (eg with funding) and there is less transparency? I think that cops should be liable in civil suits for sure but that's the case here (I think).
 

rollitup

Forum Admin
Staff member
Sadly I don't see us moving past a force based solution for making everybody play nice together. Some people are bad people and we need to accept that reality and work within it.


Daaamn, that's deep.

But aren't we then looking to more gang like situation where they are in more charge (eg with funding) and there is less transparency? I think that cops should be liable in civil suits for sure but that's the case here (I think).

Have you ever been to the US? Have you ever had an unpleasant encounter with US police?

If not, then STFU!

I've never talked to police in your country, so I would not chime in and defend them when they do something wrong. Why are you defending US police and their sadistic actions?


:mrgreen:
 

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
The biggest problem with policing in this day and age is that the vast majority of police officers are former military.

That's a huge, huge mistake.

Police Forces like them because to them they're already trained. They just get a basic course in criminal justice (my job), code interpretation and enforcement, and they're out on patrol.

The problem though is that military training doesn't incorporate anything remotely close to the basic rights of individuals under the constitution. They teach people how to kill people. That's it.

To make matters worse, they send these trained killers over to the middle east for a few tours where they get to step all over the local populace with impunity.

Is it any great surprise that they come home and do the same thing here?

Frankly, former military personnel other than military police should be automatically excluded from any consideration for law enforcement other than SWAT.
 
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