Planting Seed Above Dirt?

AimAim · Mar 16, 2015

I always plant seed directly into dampened soil. About 3/8 - 1/2 inch deep. I don't pre-sprout and do any of the paper towel shit. Adds nothing that I can see except the chance to fuck it up.

I have planted super shallow in the past and they come up fine but seem to have a tendency end up with the seed coat (aril) staying attached, what some people call "helmets".

I think by planting deeper (up to 1/2") the seed coat is usually removed by dragging itself through the soil to emerge.

Anyway that's my observation and experience.

bigsteve · Mar 16, 2015

I've been doing this for a long time and I use the same method myself after extensive research. My notes showed me that most of the fatalities I had while germinating was when the sprout was unable to push through the top layer of dirt to reach the light. I started pressing firmly the dirt around the root while having the first leaf set uncovered and visible. No more problems with chunks of wood laying across new seedlings in the soil. My success rate went from 90% to 95+%.

Good luck, BigSteve.

Uncle Ben · Mar 17, 2015

AimAim said:
I always plant seed directly into dampened soil. About 3/8 - 1/2 inch deep. I don't pre-sprout and do any of the paper towel shit. Adds nothing that I can see except the chance to fuck it up.

Isn't that what this is all about, doing whatever it takes to "fuck it up"? Ignore normal horticultural methods in favor of cannabis forum gimmicks and stupid shit?

I think by planting deeper (up to 1/2") the seed coat is usually removed by dragging itself through the soil to emerge.

Yep. It's also shed as the cotyledons expand.

Paper towel.....I swear. :wall:

AimAim · Mar 17, 2015

Uncle Ben said:
Isn't that what this is all about, doing whatever it takes to "fuck it up"? Ignore normal horticultural methods in favor of cannabis forum gimmicks and stupid shit?
Yep. It's also shed as the cotyledons expand.
Paper towel.....I swear.

Sure, the cotyl's expanding is a big part of it. But everything works together. My point (which I know you got UB) is that by staying underground for 72 hrs (80% of my seeds emerge in 3 days) the seed coat stays continually damp and pliable. That along with the friction of moving through the soil, and the expansion of the cotyl's has most of them busted out of the shell when they emerge from the soil.

If planted too shallow I think they pop out intact and unless you mist them or dome them the shell is hard and more difficult to shed.

I'm getting ready to start some plants from seed, for a friend to outplant. I'm tempted to start a photo journal from day of planting, to 2 weeks old, so folks can see how easy it is to get 95% complete success from seed.

thenotsoesoteric · Mar 17, 2015

Uncle Ben said:
Isn't that what this is all about, doing whatever it takes to "fuck it up"? Ignore normal horticultural methods in favor of cannabis forum gimmicks and stupid shit?

Yep. It's also shed as the cotyledons expand.

Paper towel.....I swear.

Why is it anytime I read some one say they use a paper towel, there you are to condescend? Is the paper towel method needed for dirt sprouting, no.

But what about rock wool? Do you sprout in rock wool often? Probably not because if you had, you most likely would have experienced the seed then pushing itself out of that rock wool and drying out before you have time to check the veg room that morning.

But then again, I'm an idiot and so is anyone that does something that Ben doesn't do. I guess I'll drown myself in the toilet, with a note next to me that simply reads, "Uncle Ben was right."

AimAim · Mar 17, 2015

thenotsoesoteric said:
Why is it anytime I read some one say they use a paper towel, there you are to condescend? Is the paper towel method needed for dirt sprouting, no.

I don't think UB is being condescending. He's just pointing out the obvious, that folks who are trying to learn basic botany need to keep it simple. Seed in soil = simple. Seed in paper towel with fragile radicle and hair roots exposed needing replant = not so simple. Very easy to FU unless you know what you are doing.

Yeah he can be a cranky fart, but so can I. Don't have time to dance around the truth, so toes will be stepped on.

thenotsoesoteric · Mar 17, 2015

It comes off as condescending when you have avatars pounding their head on a wall and refer to what people do as stupid shit.

I agree that leaving a seed in a towel until it exposes the root is lazy and asking for trouble.

I only let the seed crack, never let the tap root grow out of the shell, in the towel because when I have started seeds directly in rock wool in the past, a few of the seed's tap root would pop up above the rock wool instead of pushing down through the wool. If I found the seed in time I could transplant and it would be fine but sometimes the plants would already be dead when I found it. I even started seeds 1 inch deep in rock wool. So, I then read up and heard a cat say to pop them in a towel first to prevent them from climbing out of rock wool and it has worked for me.

But again, I'm not smart so I use fourth grade methods. Because at my school, we were popping cannabis seeds in paper towels, not simply putting in our little handful of sun flower seeds in dirt and then covering up with dirt and watering.

AimAim · Mar 17, 2015

[QUOTE="thenotsoesoteric, post: 11416316, member: 648861" I use fourth grade methods. Because at my school, we were popping cannabis seeds in paper towels, not simply putting in our little handful of sun flower seeds in dirt and then covering up with dirt and watering.[/QUOTE]

Seriously? They taught you to pop weed in the 4th grade?

Where is this place?

thenotsoesoteric · Mar 17, 2015

AimAim said:
[QUOTE="thenotsoesoteric, post: 11416316, member: 648861" I use fourth grade methods. Because at my school, we were popping cannabis seeds in paper towels, not simply putting in our little handful of sun flower seeds in dirt and then covering up with dirt and watering.

Seriously? They taught you to pop weed in the 4th grade?

Where is this place?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, was having a little fun with myself.

A lot of cats on RIU have stated that people learned to germinate seeds in a paper towel during elementary school or more specific, fourth grade science.

I was being sarcastic because I've never been taught by any teacher or school in the midwest, where farming is a big thing, to put seeds in a napkin. In that regard, Uncle Ben is 100% correct, no other agricultural farmers even consider a paper towel for anything but cleaning up spills. But they're not small time closet growers that pay $2-20 a seed either.

I only heard the about the napkin idea when I first read Rosenthal, Cervantes and a couple other's books. But I have been taught at grade schools to just sow the beans about and inch, or first knuckle deep.

nootnoot · Mar 17, 2015

UPDATE: http://m.imgur.com/8Yki9UP
Obviously it was a helmet head, so I popped the seed shell off.

Uncle Ben · Mar 17, 2015

AimAim said:
Sure, the cotyl's expanding is a big part of it. But everything works together. My point (which I know you got UB) is that by staying underground for 72 hrs (80% of my seeds emerge in 3 days) the seed coat stays continually damp and pliable. That along with the friction of moving through the soil, and the expansion of the cotyl's has most of them busted out of the shell when they emerge from the soil.

If planted too shallow I think they pop out intact and unless you mist them or dome them the shell is hard and more difficult to shed.

I'm getting ready to start some plants from seed, for a friend to outplant. I'm tempted to start a photo journal from day of planting, to 2 weeks old, so folks can see how easy it is to get 95% complete success from seed.

Exactly.

GrowUrOwnDank · Mar 17, 2015

CC Dobbs said:
I sometimes plant the soil and the seeds together. But sometimes I plant them apart and then together. But usually I plant them together, together.

Uncle Ben · Mar 18, 2015

AimAim said:
Sure, the cotyl's expanding is a big part of it. But everything works together. My point (which I know you got UB) is that by staying underground for 72 hrs (80% of my seeds emerge in 3 days) the seed coat stays continually damp and pliable. That along with the friction of moving through the soil, and the expansion of the cotyl's has most of them busted out of the shell when they emerge from the soil.

If planted too shallow I think they pop out intact and unless you mist them or dome them the shell is hard and more difficult to shed.

I'm getting ready to start some plants from seed, for a friend to outplant. I'm tempted to start a photo journal from day of planting, to 2 weeks old, so folks can see how easy it is to get 95% complete success from seed.

Old rule of thumb that is still honored in the field is plant 2.5X as deep as the diameter of the seed. For cannabis that is no deeper than 1/2" deep, at least it is for me and I usually have 100% germination rates but what really counts (a monkey can germinate a seed) is seedling vigor. That should be the issue here. Why people get so hung up on breaking an embryo out of a stage of dormancy is beyond me. I guess when your new at this and have paid some pollen chucker big money it can rather anxiety provoking.

Uncle Ben · Mar 18, 2015

thenotsoesoteric said:
Why is it anytime I read some one say they use a paper towel, there you are to condescend?

Wanna hear my take on other stupid cannabis practices like defoliating or flushing? People do a lot of stupid shit in cannabis forums, more stupid shit than any shit I've ever seen even in the shittiest of gardening forums.

It is what it is.....

Uncle Ben · Mar 19, 2015

nootnoot said:
UPDATE: http://m.imgur.com/8Yki9UP
Obviously it was a helmet head, so I popped the seed shell off.

You're playing with fire. You break off those cotyledons, its head, and that plant is history.

I can see the cotyledons expanding in such a way that the "helmet" would have fallen off on its own, probably within 12 hours.

nootnoot · Mar 19, 2015

Uncle Ben said:
You're playing with fire. You break off those cotyledons, its head, and that plant is history.

I can see the cotyledons expanding in such a way that the "helmet" would have fallen off on its own, probably within 12 hours.

Now I'll just pray I guess

Cobnobuler · Mar 19, 2015

Why do we think mother nature needs so much help ...??

Uncle Ben · Mar 19, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
Why do we think mother nature needs so much help ...??

What's this "we" stuff kimosabee?

Cobnobuler · Mar 20, 2015

.......Like I said, why do so many think mother nature needs so much help ?

thenotsoesoteric · Mar 20, 2015

Cobnobuler said:
.......Like I said, why do so many think mother nature needs so much help ?

Do you like eating vegetables and smoking exotic strains of weed?

Well, little surprise for you. Those are examples of us, as humans, thinking mother nature needs a hand. Same thing with indoor gardening, hydroponics and many other agricultural practices i.e. irrigation.

So let's not behave coy nor passive aggressive. People are fallible, that's our greatest flaw/weakness. Cheers.

Planting Seed Above Dirt?

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